Audio reprogramming

[mineo77]

I have the std system with bmw prof hu, the same HU used in the hifi. I completed my audio project and the only bugger is the damn gong is so amplified too...to adjust you need to reduce the gain so much on the amp/processor that the system doesnt sound that good. We (Ken / vp electricity) was thinking that if i reprogram my HU to the "hi-fi" option instead of std stereo the gong would likely be reduced since that option is for the built in amp system. any ideas or has anybody tried this out yet?

[Blader]

On the second settings page in the HU isn't there a volume setting for the 'Gong' next to the next to the speed dependent volume adjustment?

[mineo77]

Originally Posted by Blader

On the second settings page in the HU isn't there a volume setting for the 'Gong' next to the next to the speed dependent volume adjustment?

there is, but the adjustment is very minimal. when you amplify your system and tune it correctly, the gong is ungodly loud. If you adjust your gains then you sacrifice quality of sound and output to the speakers etc.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mineo77

I have the std system with bmw prof hu, the same HU used in the hifi. I completed my audio project and the only bugger is the damn gong is so amplified too...to adjust you need to reduce the gain so much on the amp/processor that the system doesnt sound that good. We (Ken / vp electricity) was thinking that if i reprogram my HU to the "hi-fi" option instead of std stereo the gong would likely be reduced since that option is for the built in amp system. any ideas or has anybody tried this out yet?

I have coded my CIC unit using Autologic in all possible outputs, from the Stereo outputs (high level) to Individual Audio (digital) to HiFi (low level).

In none of those sytems the "gong" was as loud as you describe, and that's using a bit one.1 processor. I think that something is not quite right with your 3SIXTY.1 initial calibration/setup input levels.

I used to have issues with that some 4 years ago with a 3SIXTY.2 and the OEM Nav HiFi outputs of an E46 M3.

[mineo77]

Originally Posted by Technic

I have coded my CIC unit using Autologic in all possible outputs, from the Stereo outputs (high level) to Individual Audio (digital) to HiFi (low level).

In none of those sytems the "gong" was as loud as you describe, and that's using a bit one.1 processor. I think that something is not quite right with your 3SIXTY.1 initial calibration/setup input levels.

I used to have issues with that some 4 years ago with a 3SIXTY.2 and the OEM Nav HiFi outputs of an E46 M3.

Ken is looking into reprogramming at the moment. He recalibrated the 3SIXTY.1 yesterday and added a higher end RCA. The sound improvement was incredible...we are just scratching are heads about that damn gong...cause now it is so loud it can set off car alarms! hahahaha j/k

[Technic]

Originally Posted by mineo77

Ken is looking into reprogramming at the moment. He recalibrated the 3SIXTY.1 yesterday and added a higher end RCA. The sound improvement was incredible...we are just scratching are heads about that damn gong...cause now it is so loud it can set off car alarms! hahahaha j/k

With my 3SIXTY.2 I ended up using a line driver before it and setting the .2 gains to minimum. That fixed all my setup and stability issues with variable input levels. That was 4 years ago, so these issues are supposed to have been fixed like 2 years ago according to RF itself.

It could be possible that changing the outputs to HiFi it will fix it, but not in the way that you think... there will be no need for the 3SIXTY, as the HiFi outputs will be full range, flat and without any EQ in all 4 channel outputs.

[mineo77]

Yep, we talked about if the radio is reprogrammed i wouldn't need the 3SIXTY.1, but then that would leave me with some $$$ for a new 4 channel amp. I dont know if i can live with the gong this loud...pretty intrusive everytime you get in the car

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Technic

With my 3SIXTY.2 I ended up using a line driver before it and setting the .2 gains to minimum. That fixed all my setup and stability issues with variable input levels. That was 4 years ago, so these issues are supposed to have been fixed like 2 years ago according to RF itself.

Manufacture date 2006.

[mineo77]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Manufacture date 2006.

does that imply my RF manf date 2006?

[VP Electricity]

More than implication.

Technic always described his 360 issues as being with lower-level signals, and since you had true speaker-level signals, I didn't think anything of it. Still don't.

On my second calibration, I sine-waved and O-scoped my way through it. I really, really, really don't think it's done wrong, Technic.

AFAIK, this installation has shown no instability as far as loudness is concerned. Before the recalibration we did have a couple of RPM-related noise events. Technic, did your installation exhibit variable noise ?

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by mineo77

Yep, we talked about if the radio is reprogrammed i wouldn't need the 3SIXTY.1, but then that would leave me with some $$$ for a new 4 channel amp. I dont know if i can live with the gong this loud...pretty intrusive everytime you get in the car

I've checked some various BMWs, and I think the 1-series gong is the loudest. Must be EU spec or something, as discussed elsewhere.

This 360.1 was New Old Stock. When I had its input pots a bit lower, the gong was livable but output voltage was 1.6V with a 1K sine wave at 0dB.

With the input pots re-set, we get plenty of voltage (did not get time to measure it), and the amp gain is on the floor, but we get a loud gong.

Since many 1-series owners on this forum have complained about gong loudness without an amp upgrade (I wish I could determine if any of those had HiFi audio!), I suspect the 1 is more challenging than others.

The 360 was not originally used as a de-equalizer, that was a bonus. It was originally chosen as a good SQ LOC for common-ground amps, as a basic EQ for interior acoustics tuning, for a sub-bass level control, and for actrve crossovers that it turned out not to have.

Previously, when the car was using the amp's speaker-level inputs, I believe it had noise, and I find many of those inputs to be usable for subwoofer only.

I have no problem taking the 360 out...but I need something to use on these amps. I might run the speaker-level signal directly into a Jensen Transformers CI-2LL Iso-Max(have done it before in E46 using common-grounded input amps, sounded great).

[mineo77]

There seems to be some major draw backs of loosing the 360.1:
- tunability of the system
- sweet sub level knob install

The system at the moment has the best sound quality. Only a very slight engine noise at time which is hardly noticable. It is just that damn gong issue.

[VP Electricity]

Well, sub level knob technology can be used in many ways...

If the engine noise comes and goes, it could be what Technic is talking about. But the gong issue seems to be predicated on the fact that it's the same volume regardless of "last volume knob setting".

I'm still solving all those issues. Hate noise. Hate loud gongs. One way or another, this white whale is going down.

[mineo77]

i hate that damn white whale!

[gIzzE]

If you change the vehicle order of the car and tell it that you have the business head unit, you will loose the gong altogether, you will still get PDC, but the gong for warnings (ie low fuel, flat tyre etc.) will be gone.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

If you change the vehicle order of the car and tell it that you have the business head unit, you will loose the gong altogether, you will still get PDC, but the gong for warnings (ie low fuel, flat tyre etc.) will be gone.

In the US, the dealer's service software apparently does not allow changing of the VO.

The Autologic SW I know will support changing of the individual module settings WITHOUT changing the VO, but does anyone know if AL SW supports actual changing of the VO to a HU that is not present? Wouldn't that throw codes on the next dealer visit?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

More than implication.

Technic always described his 360 issues as being with lower-level signals, and since you had true speaker-level signals, I didn't think anything of it. Still don't.

On my second calibration, I sine-waved and O-scoped my way through it. I really, really, really don't think it's done wrong, Technic.

AFAIK, this installation has shown no instability as far as loudness is concerned. Before the recalibration we did have a couple of RPM-related noise events. Technic, did your installation exhibit variable noise ?

There were no noise, but this weird condition of having great sound one day and by the next day the bass was gone... calibrate again, great sound, 24-36 hours later bass gone.

Three replacements later and still the same crap... by measuring the outputs of the 3SIXTY.2 I noticed that when the calibration was great the output was some 3.5V with heavy bass music. When the bass was gone, the ouput level went down to 1.6V at the same volume and with the same music. So I started with a SVEN LOC to see if the issue was the balanced signal and it did not improved much, but it was slightly better. So I added a Matrix line driver between the OEM HU and the 3SIXTY.2 and problem solved.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

In the US, the dealer's service software apparently does not allow changing of the VO.

The Autologic SW I know will support changing of the individual module settings WITHOUT changing the VO, but does anyone know if AL SW supports actual changing of the VO to a HU that is not present? Wouldn't that throw codes on the next dealer visit?

You can put in the VO whatever you want using Autologic, but in a brand new car that's warranty suicide.

[VP Electricity]

Nothing fun about that.

Per RF, the V2 unit has a ground lift jumper which might help this cars' very faint engine noise. The tech department knows of no other input circuit changes (please note that the original EE is no longer with RF and so some knowledge may have gone to that great 3-ring binder in the sky).

Based on my poll thread, pre-2010 models with base audio have the same issue, so it is not the 2010 HU changes I was afraid of. Waiting to find out if HiFi gongs are as loud as base audio gongs...

[VP Electricity]

One forum member with HiFi and a bitone reports that with the bitone voliume maxed, the gong is still not too loud in his car.

Which casts a bit more glare on the 360.1,but also implies that HiFi gong is softer. Makes sense - with an amp downstream everything should be softer, but there's no reason to assume that they nailed the exact same volume out with HiFi mode.

[mineo77]

you thinkin we need to replace the 3SIXTY?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

One forum member with HiFi and a bitone reports that with the bitone voliume maxed, the gong is still not too loud in his car.

Which casts a bit more glare on the 360.1,but also implies that HiFi gong is softer. Makes sense - with an amp downstream everything should be softer, but there's no reason to assume that they nailed the exact same volume out with HiFi mode.

My bit one volume is -4db from max and the gong is normal with the HiFi outputs and was normal with the Stereo (high level) outputs.