07-15-2015, 08:56 PM | #1 |
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Anyone want to interpret this n55 dyno?
Run 1 is best stock.
Run 2 is best Dinan stage 2, two weeks after flash. I'm very interested in those who like to interpret dyno's what you see in this. Stage 2 runs about $2400 out the door, for reference. Last edited by edx1; 07-15-2015 at 09:22 PM.. |
07-16-2015, 11:02 AM | #3 |
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Not that it'd do any good, but have you shown your dyno results to your Dinan dealer? I won't use Dinan, because of their ridiculous pricing, but it should perform better than that.
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07-16-2015, 11:29 AM | #4 |
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In Dinan's defense, they do claim that their maps never put down good dyno numbers, as the fans typically aren't big enough to keep things cool enough for the maps to allow full power (so there's apparently a more sophisticated temperature control function vs. the JB4...which just has cold engine protection).
People claim that in the real world, the whp is much closer. Not sure how much of that is true...but I'm sure the OP can shed some light on it just by driving his car around. It should produce a dramatic difference in power. Like, people generally let out a chuckle the first time the dig into a tuned N54/55. |
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07-16-2015, 05:48 PM | #6 |
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Unfortunately I don't have great things to say about the tune at the moment. From throttle cut outs (that didn't exist pre-tune) during nasa events under hard acceleration during 60-110 straight-line acceleration to slightly aggressive acceleration around town. Stock 335's at the track would put on about 150' on a 1800' straight and post tune I've pick up only 10'-15' which pretty much matches what the dyno shows I've picked up. I see boost hit about 13.5 psi for about a 100rpm range at about 3700rpm (where it hits Dinans claimed tq peak tk number) and then it's low 12's, 10's then lower within a few hundred rpm while pre-tune it would hit 11.7-11.9 under hard acceleration and stay above 10.5 psi far longer than the Dinan tune. I'd say other than that quick psi peak, the tune added 1psi boost under 4k and above 5k the boost is lower than the stock dme flash. Butt dyno there's very little difference (with the exception that the 1k-2.8k acceleration is smoother but I can't say if that's because dinan is adding more power around 2k or if dinan is limiting how quick the turbo kicks in to be "smoother" feeling) and I was not surprised when I saw the post dyno results, several runs were worse than stock.
I talked to my Dinan dealer who pointed me to Dinan for questions. I've had some trouble getting Dinan to respond but yesterday they called back after I e-mailed again (They had the dyno chart for a week) and I gave them more specifics about some of the issues I'm having with the tune (A/F ratio runs about .7 on hard acceleration (.85-.9 pre tune) and I've seen it hit .5 at times). Fuel rail pressure all looks fine when I've reviewed torque obi information after events. I guess I'm a little frustrated because I was given the bogus excuses of environment makes the two dyno's incomparable because of "different days", "different temperature", "different humidity". I even let them know I ran the math on the environmental factors which were .7F off and 17% humidity difference that accounts for a .8% conversion difference and I actually wouldn't care if the numbers were even off something like 20%, but my concerns are the power cut, A/F and that the tune numbers pre/post are off less than half of what they claimed for hp. They ultimately gave me the final excuse of "it's impossible to see what a tune has done unless all four wheels are bolted to a dyno", obviously something I can't easily do so unless I can prove that point I have to trust them. I wonder even if I did that if they have another excuse lined up, and I'm partially tempted to try to find a shop with one but what a PITA it would be to remove the tune, dyno it, get the tune, re-dyno all before they claimed a temperature, humidity or some other reason for why it's not a valid test. And obviously doing all that would be several hundred for two sets of dyno pulls on a machine with the wheel bolted on. Anyway, I can understand some variance in numbers but to me the claims are not coming close to what I'm seeing, and that's combined with the excuses is rubbing me the wrong way. The company who dyno'd the car (not the dinan dealer who didn't have one) does a lot of bmw work and agree'd that this particular dinan tune does not match what people see from other similar priced dme flash dinan tunes and agreed they'd be pretty pissed at the change vs the cost. The tune, even with warranty, is worth about $500+tax+install time IMO because I'm getting a quarter for what they claim except that one little tq peak for a extremely small rpm range. a 10hp increase for the price is vastly disappointing. This isn't even a PPK improvement that offered more hp/$. Anyway, Dinan is suppose to be getting back with me on the cut-outs and a/f questions but in short he said that according to their engineer, the dyno chart looks right on with what should be expected except the lead in looks a little off. And ultimately they also blamed the xdrive system for the numbers (btw, they said they calculate 25% (their number) xdrive drivetrain loss when presenting numbers) even when I tried to explain I'm comparing _my_ before and after and have never tried to compare it to a 2wd n55. Right now Dinan to me just seems to say "trust us this works" and published numbers that look great but then when in reality both in tracking, street(butt dyno) and dyno I see 10-20% of the hp increase they seem to be reading from a script for all the ways I can never show they were wrong. I've also wondered if they are trying to take advantage of the fact that bmw underrates their n55 crank hp/tq (300/300) and using marketing can claim performance of 355/401 just by adding about 10hp and 40tq. |
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07-16-2015, 06:06 PM | #7 |
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On the air/fan aspect, the dyno company I used runs multiple fans that adjust CFM to be realistic based on MPH so it's about as good as can be done for a dyno. I hope Dinan isn't running unrealistically high CFM when doing their tests but unfortunately they don't provide video's or numbers (even environmental numbers). The fact that I also don't see the performance during 60-110mph pulls on the track also is a concern that the dinan numbers aren't realistic or the tune has some problems since I was ... in the real world with cars I run with in the same conditions pre and post tune, and no the 335's and 435 didn't have any work done.
One nice thing about JB4 for comparison is you can turn it on/off which lets you get good comparisons, so you can actually test the tuning differences, I wish the Dinan tune did that but that's a plus to piggy-backs I guess. |
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07-16-2015, 06:11 PM | #8 |
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Dinan has continually proven to be a pretty big waste of money. Their xDrive excuse is total bullshit, I pulled 345whp on 93 octane back when I was still on my stock turbo with my JB4. And that is on a dyno dynamics, which reads low. I have 56,000 miles on my JB4 and no problems besides shortened spark plug life (happens to any tuned car). I would be extremely pissed if I spent $2400 and got 10 whp on a dyno graph that is choppy and looks to have poor driveability.
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07-17-2015, 01:49 AM | #9 |
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I've called Dinan about the N20 "tune". I'm having the same issues, my a/f is way off especially when the air temps get "hot", 85F or so for you Americans. I'll never go their route again, but I'm not sure I want to go with Burger for my M2. I kind of want something in-between. Nobody seems to give a shit about BMWs lately, maybe because they're difficult? Whatever the excuse for not having a proper re-map of the factory computer, these piggy backs just don't give the quality of the old fashioned re-flashes.
I do find my JB4 to be a better option all around. It seems to have better a/f control than the Dinan, and as stated above, the ability to switch it off. Continuing on with products I'm less than impressed with, my ER downpipe has really let me down. That's another company I'll never bother with again. They didn't seem to put much R&D into the N20 parts as I've been having nothing but issues with it. NOTE FOR DINAN GUYS: Has anyone just out of curiosity had their computer scanned for any codes? I'd like to see if anyone else is getting MAF, MAP and wastegate codes. (JB4 doesn't throw anything).
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07-17-2015, 05:42 AM | #11 |
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Twix, I get the same 4 codes: 002ca6, 002c58, 002cb4, and 00a10a. I've been clearing them myself, but plan to leave them next time and take the car to the dealer. I'd guess it's happened maybe 5 times over the last 3 months, always on the first start of the day, never after the first start.
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07-17-2015, 06:44 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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07-17-2015, 07:10 PM | #14 | |
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Quote:
As for JB4, I really want something more like my SCT I've used in my mustangs and my thunderbird. It gave me the ability to switch tunes based on fuel brand, type etc. I could change my own timing, RPM limits in each gear etc etc etc. JB4 allows on-the-fly changing of tunes which I like, but I can't alter those tunes based on my own wishes. It's also just a piggyback, not a load in tune which has far higher reliability because of the more in depth parameter changes done to the engine's needs and requirements. JB4 gives much better power, options and user interface, but it could still be better. For my M2, I want something that I, ultimately, can control and adjust.
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07-18-2015, 06:28 AM | #15 |
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There's clearly an issue. Are you sure your car has been tuned? The tiny difference might only be due to the dyno itself, the operator, and as you said humidity,temperature, ...
It's easy for the guys who programmed your car to remove the tune, test it on the dyno and then put it back again to see the difference the same day on the same dyno with the same operator. If they are not able to do that, then ask the tune to be removed and a refund.
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07-18-2015, 01:45 PM | #16 |
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FWIW: when I had my Dinan installed, something went wrong and it didn't take. I brought my car in and it was redone and did take. Call them up and have the software re-downloaded in the box.
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07-19-2015, 02:11 PM | #17 |
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The only dinan shop in 500 miles doesn't have a dyno and the nearest decent tuner with a dyno is 30 miles away. But I'm pretty sure the tune is in, the psi is higher around 3.5k so unless a tune can only be part way done it's in...
As for removing the tune, what's the chance of bmw not doing warranty work since it had it? I've been wondering if anything happens and I request a refund from dinan that my bmw warranty is still void. I worry I'm trapped for warranty reasons now. |
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07-19-2015, 02:30 PM | #18 |
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BMW won't void your warranty. The stuff I have done to my car on top of tuning and they haven't batted an eye.
Judging by the graph, the software didn't take in the box. The torque line should ramp up and climb quite a bit higher than what your line shows. The power line should be a bit higher, but should parallel the factory line a bit more. Have the software reloaded, like I said, I had the same flat lining issue and it was fixed with a reload of the software to the box. My dyno sheet is below. Really poor number from Dinan as you can see. Also, the car's timing was way far back because of the temps inside this crappy dyno shop I used. But as you can see, the torque line is quite a bit higher, drops off pretty fast. The power line parallels the factory, while being a bit higher. With stage 2, your torque should be MASSIVELY different. Try getting it fixed.
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07-20-2015, 09:03 AM | #19 |
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At any given RPM, a torque increase, by definition, results in a power increase. If your torque is "massively different" at any given RPM, the power will be as well.
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07-20-2015, 09:41 AM | #20 |
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Asking X1 People about a dyno is pretty silly in so many ways.
BASE: Your TQ # is way higher than it should be. Something is off at the dyno/car problems. Or you haven't listed everything you have on the car. Most stock 2wd n55 335i's do 270whp and 270-280TQ Rated at 300/300 Stock BHP You have AWD and would bring down the stock number about 20% at the wheels, but BMW definatley under rates so add 5% or so back.. Again something is off. <EDIT. This is wrong. my bad. The Correction Factor is SAE so you can't blame it on that really, . I see you are in SLC. Does this shop deal with mostly NA vehicles or Boosted applications? Yes, it matters for altitude corrections. CHOPPY GRAPH is because the smoothing is set to 0. hahahh not dinans fault. I've had a dinan tune for over 40K miles on mine. Never one issue. But I don't track mine. Also, Dyno Dynamics are not comparable unless you list what mode..shootout, normal, shootout 44 or something. They are the heartbreak dyno but you can manipulate them also with correction factors. Try the next dynojet shop and I guarantee its different....always is. Make sure its SAE for CF. Smoothing could be a 5 just to make it look nice. Otherwise you might have engine problems. Fuel Pressure, MAP sensor, MAF sensor, Wastegate issue......clogged cat endless Last edited by X1Denver; 07-20-2015 at 01:11 PM.. |
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07-20-2015, 10:41 AM | #21 |
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What's that supposed to mean? !
But of course, anyone with either engine'd X1, with powertrain (and even chassis) questions, would really be better served on the generally E90 forums for the N55, or F series forums for motor questions on the N20. |
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