08-10-2015, 07:34 PM | #1 |
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The Shock/Strut Thread
After throwing on the H&R springs, I've come to the conclusion that stronger shocks/struts are certainly needed.
The only real option are Bilstein HDs. I run them on my 135i (w/stock springs) and love them. They don't make Bilstein Sports for the X1 (not even special order, like the front HDs are anyway). Do we think the HDs are going to bottom-out like the stock shocks do on the H&Rs over large bumps at high speed? Since the H&R springs are "designed" to work with the stock shocks (ha), I'm thinking the HDs may be fine. I'm hoping the added stiffness of the HDs will be able to keep them from crashing on the internal bump stops....but I'm not sure. I'll be pissed if they are prone to the same bad behavior as the stock shocks are, after dropping $650 on them and waiting 3 months to get the fronts produced/shipped. Any thoughts? I'll post comments after I get them (first the rears, then both).
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08-10-2015, 08:19 PM | #2 |
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Worse comes to worse, it seems people have had success with trimming the internal bump stops on HDs struts...so maybe there's hope for them up front even if they do still bottom out a bit too frequently.
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08-10-2015, 11:06 PM | #3 |
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The stiffer valving should help, but I wouldn't be surprised if they still bottom out. I have the same problem with my rears. I bottom out just going over bridge joints if I'm at a high speed. It really unsettles the rear end.
Let us know how it works when you get them. Maybe Koni can make custom length shocks and struts.
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08-11-2015, 02:21 AM | #4 |
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Hello Guys! I just ordered my H&R springs from Turner today for my 2105 x1 xdrive 28i will it still be ok to install them? Input on how the ride is with H&R springs Thanks!
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08-11-2015, 03:16 AM | #5 | |
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Ordering mine soon. |
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08-11-2015, 03:51 AM | #6 |
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Thanks GRANTLDN! Who makes subframe bushings for x1 power flex? To bad no sport shocks are being sold for it. Was looking at bilstein set up but according to turner motorsport not available at this time.
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08-11-2015, 07:13 AM | #7 | |
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But the highway speed joints/buckles, buck the rear end HARD. The bump stops haven't been trimmed back there...but I'm not sure that would help, as it's hitting them so hard. Good news is I should get the HD rears in a couple weeks vs. months. I'll throw them on and report back. Overall, I'm sure the springs are 100% great for most people, especially if you live in areas with nicer roads. Heck, even the ride on rough rods is fine. It's really just the situations you describe. In all honesty, it may have been a better idea for me to have ordered 335 HD rears, or even 335 Sports vs. what are likely to be longer X1 HD rears. Wasn't going to be the test-dummy for that though.
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08-11-2015, 07:16 AM | #8 | |
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The HD shocks are "available", but the fronts are special order from Germany (and will always be as far as I can tell). It's a shame, they should just sell us OTS 335 xdrive shocks with an adapter sleeve. As for bushings, Whilteline are the cheapest, and like any two-piece poly, are much easier to install vs. OE M3. http://www.topgearsolutions.com/whit...g-bmw-e90.html
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08-11-2015, 07:04 PM | #9 | |
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There's a few offroad companies that custom make shocks, but I'm not sure if they would make the front struts. Or if they would even have the ability given the brand of vehicle we're talking about.
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08-11-2015, 07:22 PM | #10 |
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335xi is 3800lbs.
To get a truly proper ride for the X1 you will have to move to a coilover setup. KW makes a decent entry level one, I have a custom setup from JRZ. |
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08-11-2015, 08:29 PM | #11 | |
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But what is your basis for this statement? A couple of things... On the H&Rs, the X1 still rides higher than a stock 335 does. At 3800#, the 335 x is right with the X1. No reason a shock built for that car couldn't work. Maybe more generally, do we even know if the shock body of a 335 koni/bilstein is shorter than that of the X1? Perhaps it's not. And if it is, well, that's another reason to think it may be a viable, if not perfect option. The reason the car is compressing the rear stops on BIG high speed jolts is, quite simply, that we took away 1.5+" of rear travel, and left the bump stops the same length. As with all modern BMWs, they're into the bump stops VERY early (my M3 is into them within maybe .5" of travel). For all we know, giving the car back the bit of travel lost via lowering is all that is required (via trimming the stops). There's nothing inherent to the X1 that means this isn't the case. Could it be that the shock body is simply too long, maybe. But at this point, it's way too early to tell. There's no sound reason why if you gave the car back something close to its OE travel length (before hitting the end of the OE stops), it couldn't ride very well. What we have to do is see if that is possible with a stock-replacement shock body. Until then, I'm not sure you can make the statement you're making. Again, this isn't a 335 ride height wise. It doesn't necessarily have the severely-limited travel issues it has, somewhat necessitating coilovers. You jumped right to coilovers before there were any shock options right?
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08-11-2015, 08:34 PM | #12 | |||||
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Stuff like the rear end bouncing and the car being unsettled over highway expansion joints just shouldn't happen, it is ridiculous. I would never accept that. I can barely feel highway expansion joints and can go WOT over them while kicking the back end out with zero shimmy or unsettling behavior. Suspensions are complicated, and labor to tweak them is expensive. I have learned this the hard way. Find a shop that actually has a racing program and understands how suspensions work to set up your car. Last edited by paradoxical3; 08-11-2015 at 08:39 PM.. |
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08-11-2015, 08:39 PM | #13 |
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My post was edited significantly since you posted.
From what I can tell, the KWs are much too low for me, even on their highest setting. This is generally because all the KWs are are 335 parts with a sleeve in the front. So the 335 shocks didn't have enough stroke length? OK great, so you can't discount decent X1-length shocks with a modest drop, until you cover all of your basis. Again, you're an asset to the forum, and a good guy, but you can't make the statement you made when...well...literally no one has tried it before.
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08-11-2015, 08:47 PM | #15 | ||
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Of course not, hence the reason for this thread. It's also extremely common when adding lowering springs to cars. Quote:
I'm an ex-ME, who's hand fabricated a few open wheel formula cars in my day, done ground up suspension work in Mitchell, worked for Sachs, etc. I'm just fine trying things in the driveway on the weekends for my wife's daily driver. You simply can't make the statements you're making because neither you, nor any "race shop", has tried yet regarding the X1. Hell, it's a 14 week wait for decent aftermarket front struts. As far as I can tell, no one on the boards has even bolted a set on yet.
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08-11-2015, 08:53 PM | #16 | |||
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How do I know? Because I have tried JRZ RS1 with soft 7k/14k springs and bottomed out on full stiff. I may use a shop for my wrenching (I live in a condo with a HOA that says I can't work on my car), but I have spent $10,000 trying numerous suspension setups, spring rates, and dampers on my car. My comments are from experience. Quote:
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08-11-2015, 08:55 PM | #17 | |
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From what I can gather, you paid a shop to build your car. That's just fine, but I don't need you to cover suspension 101 with me. I've been at it with BMWs for going on 2 decades. Wife likes the ride height of the H&Rs (about 1.5 lower than stock). They're fine ride wise...a bit underdamped (but as you can tell by reviews, not so much that most members even notice). Something like an HD will sort that out I have no doubt. That just leaves the question of rear travel. Again, maybe the stock bodies are too long. But we just took away 1.5"+ of rear travel when lowering by not replacing/trimming the stops. So, without having yet tried that, there's literally no way to definitively state that the stock-sized shock body doesn't have the compression travel to perform perfectly fine for all road conditions. Maybe it won't, but it very well may. You simply cannot make the statement until you've tried. I'm hopeful, as it's pretty darn close to enough travel as it sits.
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08-11-2015, 09:02 PM | #18 | ||||
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08-11-2015, 09:04 PM | #19 | ||
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A stiffer damper, however, can slightly reduce suspension travel during quick high speed impacts (and transient maneuvers...but not generally in steady state cornering). That's suspension 101. I clearly mentioned giving back more OE-like travel via the bumpstops. But it's so close, a bit firmer compression dampening may very well be enough on it's own. No one is adding dampeners that are valved for stiffer springs. HDs are loved by many for use with stock springs, as well as OE-type sport springs having close to stock rates. Quote:
Tell us, when did you run H&R springs on aftermarket shocks with trimmed bump stops? You're really being a jerk here, as you're claiming to speak from experience with something you clearly have not experienced.
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08-11-2015, 09:10 PM | #20 | |||
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PCA instructor for 10 years. I love how you think 10 track events in instructed groups makes you some kind of suspension expert. You're a novice track guy, get over yourself. Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping The spring is oscillating too much. It's motion is not dampened enough. Are you playing semantics with that statement? Quote:
I said the car was underdamped. To take care of the oscillations, it needs more dampening. That's a separate issue than the bottoming out, which I made quite clear. Seriously, have you not been reading my posts? What I said was, the added compression dampening may help the rare bottoming out issue. That is 100% a realistic possibility that can only be determined by actually trying it. Which you haven't. You have absolutely ZERO idea how much extra travel is needed (or needs to be negated) to cure the problem. Zero. Your experience with your JRZs isn't even remotely close to proof-positive of anything. The fact that you could make such a statement with a straight face is laughable.
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08-11-2015, 09:11 PM | #21 | ||||||
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If you are such the suspension expert, why are you even making this thread instead of just doing it yourself? Enjoy your springs, I'll be enjoying a proper suspension. It's your car/money. |
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08-11-2015, 09:13 PM | #22 | |
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I prefer 10/10ths motorsports, but as a PCA driver you may not be comfortable with the open passing with no point by rules that we run. Last edited by paradoxical3; 08-11-2015 at 09:24 PM.. |
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