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      05-17-2018, 12:33 PM   #1
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Today's Society

Perhaps I'm having an off few days, but it seems as though I am finding it more and more difficult to ignore the standards of today's society. When I was younger (this makes me feel incredibly old by starting a sentence in this way) I looked up to and respected people who worked hard, had nice things, presented themselves in a manner of being well spoken, groomed, etc. Somehow in the past decade or so, I've noticed that these attributes are no longer respected by most. Hard work, morals, good work ethics and the like are no longer virtues that are held in high regard. Maybe my age is starting to show or has society completely turned upside down?

Not so many years ago, if I were to encounter someone in a position that I currently hold, I would speak to this person with respect as clearly they have made decisions and choices in life that have landed them in that position. It saddens me now that those who do little, to nothing, hold all the power. Somewhere along the way we have started rewarding people with no drive, motivation or initiative to do anything with their lives; however, this mentality creates strain on those who are left to carry the load. Not only am I, one of many, that have to take up the slack of others; but now I am somehow reprimanded not for incompetence or inability to perform my responsibilities but for hurting people's feelings that don't contribute to the overall goal.

What the hell happened? How did we get here? I'm losing my mind living in a society that I was unprepared for. I truly feel like we are living in the age of Mike Judge's Idiocracy.

Thought? Opinions?
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      05-17-2018, 12:38 PM   #2
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You are not alone. Have you read Atlas Shrugged btw?

I'll try to respond in more detail later.
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he's Canadian. By international law we all must worship him and all other products of the country.
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      05-17-2018, 12:40 PM   #3
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Social media, leftist media that promotes socialism, nonsensical mass communication and the fake belief that everyone needs to go to College and get whatever BS degree that exists all helped this happen.
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      05-17-2018, 12:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
You are not alone. Have you read Atlas Shrugged btw?

I'll try to respond in more detail later.
I have not. I look forward to your response.

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Social media, leftist media that promotes socialism, nonsensical mass communication and the fake belief that everyone needs to go to College and get whatever BS degree that exists all helped this happen.
I can see this point of view. All this entitlement is driving me insane. Where I come from, if you don't do shit, you don't deserve shit. Having other people give you the means to survive just because you breathe is bullshit. I'm going to keep some of my thoughts to myself out of fear of being compared to a dictator but damn, at some point this has to come to an end.

Last edited by Not_Judy; 05-17-2018 at 12:51 PM.
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      05-17-2018, 12:48 PM   #5
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The older generation has been complaining about the younger generation since time immemorial. Or at least since the early Roman times, based on some writings we have found.
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      05-17-2018, 12:54 PM   #6
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The older generation has been complaining about the younger generation since time immemorial. Or at least since the early Roman times, based on some writings we have found.
This I can see to a degree but it isn't just the older generation complaining about the younger generation. It's all generations; the older demographic as well. Case in point, skinny jeans, the beard epidemic, etc. I laugh about but can overlook these types of things, its more of the mentality of the "new society." The lack of accountability being held toward anyone, lack of goals because if everything is handed to you, then why should you have to work at achieving anything?
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      05-17-2018, 01:03 PM   #7
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In some respects, I believe Dave 90TT is right - the older generation always complains about the younger. So I think there is an element of this going on if I were honest. I'm not old, but I'm not young either at 36, but the fact that I feel the way my grandparents felt already, suggests to me that it is more than just the usual intergenerational complaining.

Rather, I feel something is indeed wrong - and a lot of it is to do with parenting. We've had a generation who branched off radically different from their parents and no longer physically discipline their kids, and in fact, appear to rather "negotiate" with them. And I use this term lightly, as I just saw it in action (and the parent admitted they were in "negotiations" with their kid). I use it loosely, because the kid wound up getting exactly what he wanted, and the parent did not. So that is not a negotiation. Further, parents do not follow through with the consequences they say will happen to the kid. Better to say nothing at all in that case.

And so now, we are reaping the fruits of this style of parenting, what is worse, is it is compounding in the new generation of parents thinking they are so enlightened and I feel we are going further down the rabbit hole.

But this parenting with no consequences / no discipline leads to an ultimate lack of respect for any authority because they have never had an authoritarian figure in their life.

On the Atlas Shrugged book - it is a very long read, but if you have the time, you might just enjoy it. I remember reading it 15 years ago and being a little scared, but then thinking - no, society could never devolve into the society as described in the book...but sadly, I feel I am starting to see movement to this way.

Basically, in a nutshell without ruining the book for you, society starts out with hard workers, industrious people, people who are experimenting, and reaping the rewards in terms of wealth. But society devolves and suddenly these people are viewed as evil, and the people held in esteem are those whose needs are the greatest. And it becomes those whose needs are greatest that are honoured and looked after, and all on the backs of the people who are actually working. And ultimately, Atlas (being those who are actually contributing to society and working hard) "shrugs" off the weight, but I won't tell you exactly how that happens.

Suffice to say, I could happily live in the aftermath of the "shrug" and let the rest of the world do what they want.
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      05-17-2018, 01:18 PM   #8
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I don't think much has changed, just the way information is spread and how technology, social media, and 24 hour new networks have messed with everything. Kind of why parents became helicopter parents. Injuries always occurred. There have always been perverts. Just the amount of readily available information is in our face whether we like it or not.

All I hear on news and internet is the younger generation is entitled. Yet all the low values that you mention I see about twice as much in people older than youger. I refuse to listen to how these sources tell me how "THEM" act. I observe personally. At work, who was always more entitled, harder to motivate, and got less work done? Older individuals. There are exceptions, but on average, the work ethic of my elders was something not to be desired.

My advise is when you hear "THEY", "THEM", "conservatives", "liberals", whatever. Don't listen. Talk to people you know that fit these labels and see what is really going on.
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      05-17-2018, 01:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
In some respects, I believe Dave 90TT is right - the older generation always complains about the younger. So I think there is an element of this going on if I were honest. I'm not old, but I'm not young either at 36, but the fact that I feel the way my grandparents felt already, suggests to me that it is more than just the usual intergenerational complaining.

Rather, I feel something is indeed wrong - and a lot of it is to do with parenting. We've had a generation who branched off radically different from their parents and no longer physically discipline their kids, and in fact, appear to rather "negotiate" with them. And I use this term lightly, as I just saw it in action (and the parent admitted they were in "negotiations" with their kid). I use it loosely, because the kid wound up getting exactly what he wanted, and the parent did not. So that is not a negotiation. Further, parents do not follow through with the consequences they say will happen to the kid. Better to say nothing at all in that case.

And so now, we are reaping the fruits of this style of parenting, what is worse, is it is compounding in the new generation of parents thinking they are so enlightened and I feel we are going further down the rabbit hole.

But this parenting with no consequences / no discipline leads to an ultimate lack of respect for any authority because they have never had an authoritarian figure in their life.

On the Atlas Shrugged book - it is a very long read, but if you have the time, you might just enjoy it. I remember reading it 15 years ago and being a little scared, but then thinking - no, society could never devolve into the society as described in the book...but sadly, I feel I am starting to see movement to this way.

Basically, in a nutshell without ruining the book for you, society starts out with hard workers, industrious people, people who are experimenting, and reaping the rewards in terms of wealth. But society devolves and suddenly these people are viewed as evil, and the people held in esteem are those whose needs are the greatest. And it becomes those whose needs are greatest that are honoured and looked after, and all on the backs of the people who are actually working. And ultimately, Atlas (being those who are actually contributing to society and working hard) "shrugs" off the weight, but I won't tell you exactly how that happens.

Suffice to say, I could happily live in the aftermath of the "shrug" and let the rest of the world do what they want.
Very well stated and I can not dispute a single word.

There are factors that have played heavily into the posting of this thread but I don't feel the details are as important as the general idea; but yes, you are correct. The lack of parenting I feel is what started the snowball effect.
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      05-17-2018, 01:47 PM   #10
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What a load of horseshit. There's nothing wrong with the younger generation at all. What I have noticed is that it's probably just more stratified. There are probably more "good" young people than ever before, and there's lots of shitheads (but there always were). What's different is that there are less in the middle because you have to work a whole hell of a harder as a kid these days if you want the opportunities that post-secondary education and/or entrepreneurship provide.
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      05-17-2018, 01:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_Judy View Post
Perhaps I'm having an off few days, but it seems as though I am finding it more and more difficult to ignore the standards of today's society. When I was younger (this makes me feel incredibly old by starting a sentence in this way) I looked up to and respected people who worked hard, had nice things, presented themselves in a manner of being well spoken, groomed, etc. Somehow in the past decade or so, I've noticed that these attributes are no longer respected by most. Hard work, morals, good work ethics and the like are no longer virtues that are held in high regard. Maybe my age is starting to show or has society completely turned upside down?

Not so many years ago, if I were to encounter someone in a position that I currently hold, I would speak to this person with respect as clearly they have made decisions and choices in life that have landed them in that position. It saddens me now that those who do little, to nothing, hold all the power. Somewhere along the way we have started rewarding people with no drive, motivation or initiative to do anything with their lives; however, this mentality creates strain on those who are left to carry the load. Not only am I, one of many, that have to take up the slack of others; but now I am somehow reprimanded not for incompetence or inability to perform my responsibilities but for hurting people's feelings that don't contribute to the overall goal.

What the hell happened? How did we get here? I'm losing my mind living in a society that I was unprepared for. I truly feel like we are living in the age of Mike Judge's Idiocracy.

Thought? Opinions?
Double your tax rates and get back to me.
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      05-17-2018, 01:51 PM   #12
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Don't loose your mind over this. Its life. Its change. Its movement forward.

Children learn values from their parents. These values are reinforced by other institutions, like schools and churches. But, values are also learned and re-inforced other ways. Peer influence is especially strong. "In the olden days" our peer structure was mostly the friends we went to school with, played sports with or worked with, and who came from similar backgrounds, etc. Its completely different today. I think the term "peer" now extends to the entire audience created by social media. We cannot discount the impact and importance of this method of communication. Its powerful and young people are at the leading edge of this.

I agree things have changed. They aren't the same as what we considered the norm. New norms of conduct and values are emerging. I don't think this is necessarily bad, its just different. I see it as part of our cultural evolution. The young will always replace the old and along with that comes different values, different beliefs and different ideas. It can uncomfortable but I see this a inherently positive.
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      05-17-2018, 02:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea-Tac View Post
Don't loose your mind over this. Its life. Its change. Its movement forward.

Children learn values from their parents. These values are reinforced by other institutions, like schools and churches. But, values are also learned and re-inforced other ways. Peer influence is especially strong. "In the olden days" our peer structure was mostly the friends we went to school with, played sports with or worked with, and who came from similar backgrounds, etc. Its completely different today. I think the term "peer" now extends to the entire audience created by social media. We cannot discount the impact and importance of this method of communication. Its powerful and young people are at the leading edge of this.

I agree things have changed. They aren't the same as what we considered the norm. New norms of conduct and values are emerging. I don't think this is necessarily bad, its just different. I see it as part of our cultural evolution. The young will always replace the old and along with that comes different values, different beliefs and different ideas. It can uncomfortable but I see this a inherently positive.
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      05-17-2018, 02:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
In some respects, I believe Dave 90TT is right - the older generation always complains about the younger. So I think there is an element of this going on if I were honest. I'm not old, but I'm not young either at 36, but the fact that I feel the way my grandparents felt already, suggests to me that it is more than just the usual intergenerational complaining.

Rather, I feel something is indeed wrong - and a lot of it is to do with parenting. We've had a generation who branched off radically different from their parents and no longer physically discipline their kids, and in fact, appear to rather "negotiate" with them. And I use this term lightly, as I just saw it in action (and the parent admitted they were in "negotiations" with their kid). I use it loosely, because the kid wound up getting exactly what he wanted, and the parent did not. So that is not a negotiation. Further, parents do not follow through with the consequences they say will happen to the kid. Better to say nothing at all in that case.

And so now, we are reaping the fruits of this style of parenting, what is worse, is it is compounding in the new generation of parents thinking they are so enlightened and I feel we are going further down the rabbit hole.

But this parenting with no consequences / no discipline leads to an ultimate lack of respect for any authority because they have never had an authoritarian figure in their life.

On the Atlas Shrugged book - it is a very long read, but if you have the time, you might just enjoy it. I remember reading it 15 years ago and being a little scared, but then thinking - no, society could never devolve into the society as described in the book...but sadly, I feel I am starting to see movement to this way.

Basically, in a nutshell without ruining the book for you, society starts out with hard workers, industrious people, people who are experimenting, and reaping the rewards in terms of wealth. But society devolves and suddenly these people are viewed as evil, and the people held in esteem are those whose needs are the greatest. And it becomes those whose needs are greatest that are honoured and looked after, and all on the backs of the people who are actually working. And ultimately, Atlas (being those who are actually contributing to society and working hard) "shrugs" off the weight, but I won't tell you exactly how that happens.

Suffice to say, I could happily live in the aftermath of the "shrug" and let the rest of the world do what they want.
I agree 100%... I can't recall a generation as disrespectful and dumb as the current maybe less barbaric times... you reap what you sow... gl young lads. btw... I am 30 lol
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      05-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #15
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It's a generational thing IMO. I hope it turns back to what it was before the previous administration.
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      05-17-2018, 02:51 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
What a load of horseshit. There's nothing wrong with the younger generation at all. What I have noticed is that it's probably just more stratified. There are probably more "good" young people than ever before, and there's lots of shitheads (but there always were). What's different is that there are less in the middle because you have to work a whole hell of a harder as a kid these days if you want the opportunities that post-secondary education and/or entrepreneurship provide.
+1. The myth that today's younger generation is somehow less hard-working and more self-entitled is a load of crock. If anything they are MORE hard-working and feel less self-entitled than our generation.

Even though I'm twice their age, I interact with college students from our local college (and high school students occasionally) on a weekly basis (not part of my day-to-day job; just something I do on the side), and I constantly marvel just how hard they work (and worked in high school) to get where they are. Kids nowadays know how competitive the job market is, and that they have to do every little "extra" (extra studying, extra activities, etc.) to distinguish them from their peers. Back in our day, straight "As" in high school virtually guaranteed admission into any UC, including UC Berkeley. Nowadays, straight As only get you into a mid-level UC (like UC Irvine, possibly UC Davis).

Of course there have always been kids that were slackers or felt self-entitled. Moreover, every kid (myself included, and 99.99% you as well) has at one time or another complained about working hard. It's just that back then, you only complained to your parents and your friends. Nowadays, you can complain to the world over social media, and if enough kids voice their complaints, it sounds like every kid feels "self-entitled", when the actual fact is completely the opposite.

Finally, for those decrying the value of a college education: A college degree has always been, still is, and probably will always be, the best indicator of financial success. Virtually every high-paying job requires a college degree. Lawyer? Doctor? Computer programmer? Engineer? All of them. I would also hazard a guess that 95-99% of all Fortune 500 executives have a college degree as well (I know all the ones in my company do).

Now is it true that you need a college education for success? Of course not, there are exceptions. But even in the exceptions, many of these people were smart enough that they would have been (or were) accepted into a college had they decided to go this route. Zuckerburg? Accepted into Harvard before dropping out sophomore year. Wozniak and Jobs? Former went to UC Berkeley; latter went to Reed College. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer? Harvard (Gates dropped out early).

Now are there majors in college that don't equate to financial success? Of course. But most kids know this before they choose their major; they take the risk of high student loans to enter a field that they really enjoy (like teaching, museum curating, writing, etc.). It's no different than an entrepreneur getting a bank loan or VC funding on a wing and prayer, and then crashing out in bankruptcy when the idea dies. It's the exact same analysis.
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      05-17-2018, 04:32 PM   #17
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I think what you are saying has been going on for several decades but has simply just worsened exponentially due the internet and especially social media.

It sounds cliche but I just don't have much faith in people anymore. People in the professional world are out to backstab and screw you, people on social media just want attention, people drive like assholes, etc. Everybody's in it for themselves no matter whatever BS they preach. That is why I laugh at people on the far left who despise Trump for being a jerk yet they do scummier things in their own personal lives, and the same goes for people on the far right hating on X Y Z.

I don't trust a single soul outside my mother, father, and my bank account. In general, outside my immediate family and 10-15 close friends I don't care for anybody. I used to not have this attitude and be kinder and more trust of people, until I was repeatedly taken advatange of and harassed by the people I trusted to help me. Screw everyone.
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      05-17-2018, 04:44 PM   #18
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      05-17-2018, 05:35 PM   #19
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Quote:
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What the hell happened? How did we get here?
In my opinion, society changed (for the worse) when spanking your children became "abuse" and we (collectively) stopped doing it.
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      05-17-2018, 05:41 PM   #20
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      05-17-2018, 07:25 PM   #21
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At the end of the day it matters who you know and how big your balls are. That's the best I can put it.
yeah thats a wonderful explanation / excuse for people being assholes and having no morals
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      05-17-2018, 08:33 PM   #22
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yeah thats a wonderful explanation / excuse for people being assholes and having no morals
That's coming from someone who isn't an assshole with morals.
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