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      08-02-2014, 11:24 AM   #89
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My point being, it won't matter who is the elected government, Israel will keep going until every Arab on that land is dead or has migrated. Hamas is a poor excuse to justify what has happened since their election - because Fatah had the same problem.

The recent ceasefire was broken because Israel claim the kidnapping of a soldier. Bullsh*t. This is how the media play such a massive part in the whole cleansing program. They manipulate the World to believe that Hamas are the bad guys here - when in reality, fabricated lies are used for their evil doings.

Don't you find it funny how Israel wanted to flatten the homes of all those suspected of being involved in "terrorist" activities? Coincidence? Nope.
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      08-02-2014, 11:44 AM   #90
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Why are Hamas' views extreme? Is it because the pre-dominantly controlled and pro-zionist media use words like "militants, Islamists, jihadists, extremists, fundamentalists, terrorists...." to portray everybody they see as enemy, irrespective of whether this enemy is fighting for a just cause or not.

All Hamas want is for the Palestinians (Muslim, Christian, Jewish or otherwise) to have their homes and land back, the ones that their forefathers pracefully lived in side-by-side and farmed on for generations prior to 1946/7.

If somebody came and squatted in your HOME, the courts ordered them to leave, yet more heavily armed squatters took up the whole street, whilst the police watched silently, and you resisted by using broomsticks, would you like to be called an extremist? And be honest please.

I'm a "jihadist" and have no shame in admitting it. But before you condemn me or decide to report me to the authorities, I implore you to look up the TRUE definition of the word 'jihad' and the context, before judging me. Otherwise you're as ignorant as the next person who is just spoon fed by the mass media. You'll probably find that most of you (assuming you have a moral compass) are jihadists too.

Why are they called the IDF soldiers rather than the IOF militia? 'Perceived legitimacy' my fellow forum users, 'perceived legitimacy'.

Do you know why this recent round of conflict kicked off? It's because Fatah and Hamas both realised (at long last) that they could be stronger by working together....something which the Israelis didn't like. All they needed was an reason to light the fuse (the unfortunate death of the 3 Israeli teenagers in which Hamas have vehemently denied any involvement). As for using the rockets into Israel as an excuse, this has been happening anyway as a means of Palestinian resistance against the persecution that they suffer on a daily basis.

Which reminds me....I wonder what happened to the killers of the Palestinian boy that was kidnapped and burnt alive etc?

As for the breaking of the ceasefire, would you allow a squatter to roam in your back garden whilst you tried to make sense of what was once your home? I know for damn sure that an Israeli sniper would pop a cap in a non-threatening Palestinian even if they dared step over the illegal and illegitimate boundary that currently exists.

No offence meant and not to tar all with the same brush, but as the native American Indians are alleged to have said and as history shows, "white man speak with forked tongue".
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      08-02-2014, 01:04 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaheed1 View Post
Rubbish. (sorry to be blunt)

Do you know why Hamas fire rockets (more like fireworks) in to Tel-Aviv? It's because they are sick to death of the Israeli occupation forces killing innocent people EVERY DAY of the week. These deaths haven't just suddenly arrived at our doorstep. The IOF illegally take men and teenagers off the streets of Gaza, detain and torture them. This has been proven time and time again - the only reason we don't hear about them is because of the pro-Israeli media in the Western World. I and many other follow people who are on the ground in Gaza by social media - who report these things every day.

Keeping Gazans in the Worlds biggest prison isn't enough for these sick sons of bitches, they're making sure they are also eradicating all threat of re-production in the region.

Palestine has no military. Essentially, it's civilians with fireworks vs The Worlds most advanced army, aided by $3b of US military aid each year - and if Hamas backed down, Israel would be free to continue their mission of ethnically cleansing what's left.

I've never been a fan of the notions that violence should be met with violence - but what do you expect from Hamas? Until we have all lived in their conditions and apartheid regime of the Nazi-like Israeli's - we will never understand their anger. Many of the Hamas members are men who have lost siblings, parents, children and relatives to Israel's barbarism. These men have nothing but hate in them for what has been done to them, their people and their Country.

F*ck Israel. I'm just living in the hope that Iran, Lebanon and Hezbollah grow a f***** pair and give these sick Zionists a taste of their own medicine.
Red:
That may indeed be why they do so. It may be what most other people would do in a similar situation. It doesn't make it the right thing to do and doing that sort of thing isn't going to endear the perpetrators or their plight to the rest of the world. And, no, the Israelis' continuing to build settlements is not right either. Two wrongs do not, however, make a right. As stated earlier, there's plenty of wrongdoing happening on both sides of the issue.

The Palestinians are not the first group of people to have had their lands forcibly taken from them. They are not the first group of people to have endured the ills of having a third party mandate their fate. Indians, Native Americans, Africans and African Americans, Australian Aboriginals, and most other non-European indigenous people around the planet have had to face exactly the same wrongs. Columbus didn't discover America; he discovered that millions of people were already in American and the powers that were in that time didn't give a damn about it any more than Israel appears to give a damn about the Palestinians having been displaced. (It's not Israel's fault the Palestinians were displaced, although Israel deserves much of the blame for that situation's persistence for as long as it has done.)

I'm sure there remains even today animosity among some Native Americans for what happened hundreds of years ago, so I don't expect the Palestinians to "just get over it" in the short time that's passed since they lost their country. The thing is that once they all but lost the military battle for their land, Native Americans pursued other avenues to obtain reparations. They figured out that it was and is a foregone conclusion that the "invaders" of their lands weren't and aren't going anywhere and that they are powerless to make them go. The Palestinians, and their bellicose allies like Hamas, would do well to accept that the same is so re: Israel.

Blue:
What do I expect of Hamas? I expect them to show some genuine enlightenment if they truly want to help the Palestinian people, as opposed to wanting to help the Palestinians and further the cause of destroying Israel/Jews, retaliating for real and imagined wrongs, focusing on assigning blame rather than creating and implementing a solution, continuing to foster discord rather than helping build consensus, and boosting their own position on the political map.

History shows us that although enlightened, innovative leaders who try a "different approach" don't always succeed. It also shows us that in every situation whereby it became clear that the "little guys" could not militarily obtain their goals, enlightened individuals and peaceful protestors were the only ones who could.

Such is the situation in Israel. About the only thing stopping Israel from just saying, "F*ck the bullsh*t!", and bombing the be-jesus out of the place is the uncertainly of what the global impact of doing so, the escalation effect, might be. Would it lead to WWIII and what would the nature of that war be? I honestly believe that if Israel thought the downstream impact would be anything short of global, nuclear annihilation (or if not global, certainly their part of the globe), they'd have some 20 years ago put an end to this mess. To use another cliche, they aren't keen to cut off their nose to spite their face.

Hamas may even think they are supporting a revolutionary effort, righting the wrongs wrought upon them and their brethren by an oppressive government. They are wrong, and they are perhaps poor students of history and politics too. And that's even before one considers the violent means by which Hamas ascended to it's current status.

A successful revolution must have the support of a majority of the people physically present, living, within the political jurisdiction of the government against which it revolts and it must have the support of a significant share of support, or at least indifference, from leaders within the existing halls of power, either from within said territory or from without.

Barring that, a "revolution" is little more than terrorism, criminal activity, a drain on resources that could be used for the betterment of parties on both sides, and a thorn in the side of the establishment. And right now, for as bloody a "thorn" as they may be, that's all Hamas and the Palestinians who encourage them, are. Hamas and the Palestinians lack what's needed to effect change via militaristic means.

Lastly, the fact of the matter is that were I a Palestinian, I'd be truly hard pressed to know under which bunch of lunatics I'd prefer to live. On one hand, there are the Israelis and I know what it's like living with them in charge. On the other, there is Hama who have shown that they really don't have any concern for how they achieve their goals, so long as they achieve them. The situation right now, for the average citizen, presents itself only with two lousy alternatives.

Orange:
One need only have suffered great personal, emotional and physical loss to understand what the Palestinians are going through. When friends and family members pass on, when a tornado or flood destroys one's home, it doesn't matter why or how it occurred, the feelings of loss are the same. The only difference is that loss due to a bomb or bullet gives one someone at whom to point a blaming finger.

There are literally millions of people who know exactly what the Palestinians are feeling. There is likely not one Native or African American over the age of 65 who doesn't know first hand exactly what they are feeling. There was a time in U.S., as recently as the 1970s, when the mere sight of a policeman was a source of concern for one's personal safety. I suspect there are also many Indians (India) who are keenly, sadly, familiar with the same feelings.

Green:
Nonetheless, one need not live in such a state of fear to know that it's wrong to create that state of mental and potentially physical distress among others. It is immensely immature, selfish, hypocritical and unfeeling to suffer the pain of loss in response to having lost someone/something in a bombing, for example, and then commit oneself to making the perpetrator feel that same loss. It doesn't bring back that which was lost and it does spread anger, hatred and distrust. In short, it's an inane response that historically is also an ineffective one.

All the best.
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      08-02-2014, 08:33 PM   #92
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Tony: i have to totally agree with vaheed and 1aky.

You say Palestinians aren't the first to lose their land. True. But they are the first people to be displaced with another set of people who follow one religion (Zionism/Judaism). It is the first time in history where a set of people have been attacked and ethinically cleansed. They are the first people to be PHYCICALLY and ECONOMICALLY disabled. If THATS not terrorism then i don't understanf how much worse the Israelis have to be to be considered terrorists?

Oh actually the last time was the Holocaust. Its frightening how similar the two are, one direct in your face, the other fooling everyone.

Its the information age people and nowadays if Presidents/politicians/media say it its true. Because they are sooo trustworthy aren't they. The people who spy on normal citizens, perve on people's webcam chats, havk dead girls' phones. Yep, everything they do really is for the best and they are always right
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      08-02-2014, 11:21 PM   #93
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Sky news today:

"The Prime Minister has written to his Nato counterparts urging a rethink on relations with Moscow following its "illegal" actions in Ukraine, including the annexation of Crimea earlier this year."

Great example here of double standards by our Government, yet we believe whatever they say!
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      08-03-2014, 03:45 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Tony: i have to totally agree with vaheed and 1aky.

You say Palestinians aren't the first to lose their land. True. But they are the first people to be displaced with another set of people who follow one religion (Zionism/Judaism). It is the first time in history where a set of people have been attacked and ethinically cleansed. They are the first people to be PHYCICALLY and ECONOMICALLY disabled. If THATS not terrorism then i don't understanf how much worse the Israelis have to be to be considered terrorists?

Oh actually the last time was the Holocaust. Its frightening how similar the two are, one direct in your face, the other fooling everyone.

Its the information age people and nowadays if Presidents/politicians/media say it its true. Because they are sooo trustworthy aren't they. The people who spy on normal citizens, perve on people's webcam chats, havk dead girls' phones. Yep, everything they do really is for the best and they are always right
Red:
??? That just isn't so. (see links below) The indigenous peoples of the Americas suffered exactly the same fate as the Palestinians. The only difference is that at this point in history, they have arrived at various peaceful agreements with the the "usurpers," or more accurately, the descendants of the usurpers. And with regard to Native Americans, we are talking about entire civilizations on two continents, not a small band of people from a small area, not even "just one" Indian nation.

Not overthrown by people of a single religion? Just what do you call Christianity? It is (was in the era of colonization) as singular as Judaism or Islam; there are various factions of Christianity just as there are in Judaism and Islam. Moreover, the Europeans of the day felt that is was specifically because of their faith, Christianity, that they had the right carry out their genocide.

You live in the U.K. What was the Roman invasion of Britannia but and invasion and displacing of the indigenous people by a force comprised of and supported by a nation having one religion that differed from that of the people conquered? Britannia wasn't the only place where the Romans did that. Moreover, they required their subjects to adopt and homage the Roman gods.

Later, from the Crusades onward, conquering Europeans repeatedly forced the conquered people to convert to Christianity. Remember that the ruler's (king's/queen's) religion was the religion of the state; thus conquest and religion conversion went hand in hand. At least Israel nor anyone else has ever tried to force the Palestinians to give up Islam.

First ethnic cleansing?
Native Americans:

The preceding references focus mostly on the Native Americans who were in North America, but make no mistake, those in Central and South American fared no better. Surely you don't think the Incans and Aztecs just up and left on their own do you? I'm less familiar with the colonization of Africa and it's impact, but my better judgement tells me it wasn't any better for those folks. I'm also not that familiar with Australia's history, but I'm going to wager the Aboriginals there got the short end of the stick too when England colonized it.


Other:
I'm not about to argue that what Israel has done could not be called "terrorism." I do not believe the only modes of terrorist behavior require one perform the explosive acts we most commonly see carried out.


Of course, I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me or the thoughts I've shared above, but if you are going to do so, at least form whatever opinion on which you settle with a fuller awareness than your statements I colored in red show. I'm saying that for you, not for me; I really don't care if you make assertions that are just dead wrong and are the result of your being misinformed or under-informed. I'm sure, however, that your level of integrity is high enough that you don't want to adopt a position, the credibility of which depends on a version of history that only you could have written.


All the best.
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      08-03-2014, 04:05 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaheed1 View Post
The recent ceasefire was broken because Israel claim the kidnapping of a soldier. Bullsh*t. This is how the media play such a massive part in the whole cleansing program. They manipulate the World to believe that Hamas are the bad guys here - when in reality, fabricated lies are used for their evil doings.
Turns out you were right!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 AKY View Post

I'm a "jihadist" and have no shame in admitting it. But before you condemn me or decide to report me to the authorities, I implore you to look up the TRUE definition of the word 'jihad' and the context, before judging me. Otherwise you're as ignorant as the next person who is just spoon fed by the mass media. You'll probably find that most of you (assuming you have a moral compass) are jihadists too.

Can you post up this info, as I would be interested in reading it, I would just like to get 1 AKY's view on this please as I don't think being flooded with everyone's definition will help at all, which is why there is no point me searching for it.

Which reminds me....I wonder what happened to the killers of the Palestinian boy that was kidnapped and burnt alive etc?

Yeah me too, this does seem to highlight the argument of bias reporting in the media

No offence meant and not to tar all with the same brush, but as the native American Indians are alleged to have said and as history shows, "white man speak with forked tongue".
None taken, lol nice finish to your post.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Sky news today:

"The Prime Minister has written to his Nato counterparts urging a rethink on relations with Moscow following its "illegal" actions in Ukraine, including the annexation of Crimea earlier this year."

Great example here of double standards by our Government, yet we believe whatever they say!
Agree....
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      08-03-2014, 06:13 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaheed1 View Post
My point being, it won't matter who is the elected government, Israel will keep going until every Arab on that land is dead or has migrated.

Which is the same as what Hamas want.......


Hamas' 1988 charter states that Hamas "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine" (Article Six). Article Thirty-One of the Charter states: "Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions—Islam, Christianity and Judaism—to coexist in peace and quiet with each other."


The main difference is Israel is winning and Isreal are just doing it, they are not putting it in their charter.



As I said, while that is the policy of those in charge of the Gazan people, no compromise will ever be made, and nothing will change.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 AKY View Post
Why are Hamas' views extreme? Is it because the pre-dominantly controlled and pro-zionist media use words like "militants, Islamists, jihadists, extremists, fundamentalists, terrorists...." to portray everybody they see as enemy, irrespective of whether this enemy is fighting for a just cause or not.
.
With a Policy that states the above and the openness they have said what they will do then most of the world see them as extreme whether you like it or not.
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      08-03-2014, 06:45 AM   #97
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Tony: LOL. Ok mate didn't realise how far you would go back to find an example. I would have thought we as a people have matured by then. Why the fuck do we have the UN nowadays?? I may not be an expert in hidtory like you, but i'm sure in all the examples you gave was pre-UN.

You could defend cannibalism as well if you go back far enough. I'm sure wife beating also used to happen.

So Tony, it doesn't matter if what Israel is doing before happened a long time ago (i still disagree, i don't think the native americans were locked up and poisoned?). You are missing the point and remind me of a politician the way you respond. Just stick to what is relevant in this current age of the UN.

Gizze:

"Which is the same as what Hamas want.......

Hamas' 1988 charter states that Hamas "strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine" (Article Six). Article Thirty-One of the Charter states: "Under the wing of Islam, it is possible for the followers of the three religions—Islam, Christianity and Judaism—to coexist in peace and quiet with each other."

You've contradicted yourself. There's a massive difference in the Hamas charter and what Israel is doing! If Hamas were in power they would let all the people remain wherever they are, not kill and clear out the area for Muslims!!

Israel is winning? You think murdering children is winning? You need to seriously look at yourself if thats true.

Think its obvious to me and anyone else that all the supporters of Israel are either American or Jewish.
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      08-03-2014, 06:53 AM   #98
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Talking of the UN, another school turned shelter has been bombed killing yet more people. They are truly displaying Nazi behaviour. They want to wipe out everyone.

But as GizzE said, this is "winning". Makes me fucking sick.
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      08-03-2014, 06:57 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
You've contradicted yourself. There's a massive difference in the Hamas charter and what Israel is doing! If Hamas were in power they would let all the people remain wherever they are, not kill and clear out the area for Muslims!!
Don't believe that for a second, they have been quite open over the years that they want all the land back and will stop at nothing to get it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Israel is winning? You think murdering children is winning? You need to seriously look at yourself if thats true.

Think its obvious to me and anyone else that all the supporters of Israel are either American or Jewish.

It is a war, it is fucking sick, but me saying 'they are winning' hopefully puts it into context of just how fucked up some people are.
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      08-03-2014, 07:01 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Talking of the UN, another school turned shelter has been bombed killing yet more people. They are truly displaying Nazi behaviour. They want to wipe out everyone.

But as GizzE said, this is "winning". Makes me fucking sick.
Good, and hopefully it will make others fell the same way, too many people never stop and actually think what is really happening in war zones, it is something they watch on the TV, and usually turn over because "I don't get what's going on".

As far as Israel is concerned, this is a war, and they are 'winning'.

As for many parts of the world standing back and watching, that is what is sick.
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      08-03-2014, 10:00 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gIzzE
As far as Israel is concerned, this is a war, and they are 'winning'.
Slightly different take on that....

Israel are winning a battle....it will ultimately lose the war. Maybe not in my lifetime, but it will. That is why the Palestinians/Gazans are willing to die whilst standing on 2 feet rather than die by surrendering on their knees. In my opinion, it is this resolve and faith that really scares the shit out of the Zionist Israelis.
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      08-03-2014, 12:23 PM   #102
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Israel were given coordinates to UN schools REPEATEDLY but still they want to kill as many Palestinians so they bombed it. This is a school were people went to after leaving their homes.

How can anyone say Hamas are the terrorists and Israel are just doing what needs to be done? Its fucking crystal clear its the IDF who are a terrorist organisation.

Its exactly the same story as when the Syrian Government were accused of using chemical weapons. They forgot about israel using chemical weapons on Gaza!

Come on people wake the fuck up!!




Actually i forgot, to be a terrorist Sky News has to say you are and being Muslim is a qualifying factor. Having a beard is a bonus. My mistake.
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      08-03-2014, 12:31 PM   #103
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Maybe you could mistake the bombing of someones home or a school as a mistake. But repeatedly bombing shelters and schools? Not to mention the boys on the beach. This is clearly terrorist behaviour, i doubt anyone can say that it isnt.

And please, no more history lessons on how someone ages ago did the same.
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      08-03-2014, 12:34 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Israel were given coordinates to UN schools REPEATEDLY but still they want to kill as many Palestinians so they bombed it. This is a school were people went to after leaving their homes.

How can anyone say Hamas are the terrorists and Israel are just doing what needs to be done?
I don't think anyone sees it like that at all.
I think most of the world see Israel as the ones doing wrong here.




But Hamas' views do not help the situation at all in the long run.



Quote:
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Actually i forgot, to be a terrorist Sky News has to say you are and being Muslim is a qualifying factor. Having a beard is a bonus. My mistake.
Seriously??!!
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      08-03-2014, 02:42 PM   #105
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GizzE:

Lol the last bit was just a bit of fun. But some ignorant people probably do think that!

I hope you're right and most people realise that what Israel is doing is wrong. But you have to think that Hamas, or whoever is in charge in Palestine, just want their land back. I think anyone would be angry with what the Palestinians have been through.

Imagine this. A group of, say, Tibetians (not sure what they are called) came to England due to the torture they suffered in China. We gave them a few towns/areas scattered around England. We all lived peacefully and cared for each other like normal society.

Then an extremist group from the Tibetian community wanted a land share, and the UN allocated them huge parts of the North and South. These areas were strictly for Tibetians only. Anyone who would protest or get kicked out would be labelled as a militant.

Then slowly the Tibetians, funded by China, settled illegally on more and more land, taking over England. English teenagers and youths who lost their homes would fight back with what they have, stones, and then be shot. Anyone protesting or arguing would be labelled as a terrorist.

After half a century all we have left is Birmingham. We are trapped by a huge wall around us. An English freedom fighting unit has been trying to regain our freedom but are being the scapegoat, and then finally we are being bombed daily with people dying everyday.

All the small English unit wants is their land back and everyone living in peace, English and Tibetians, and every other religion. Would you still say the English unit were terrorists and part of the problem?
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      08-03-2014, 02:49 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
GizzE:

Lol the last bit was just a bit of fun. But some ignorant people probably do think that!

I hope you're right and most people realise that what Israel is doing is wrong. But you have to think that Hamas, or whoever is in charge in Palestine, just want their land back. I think anyone would be angry with what the Palestinians have been through.

Imagine this. A group of, say, Tibetians (not sure what they are called) came to England due to the torture they suffered in China. We gave them a few towns/areas scattered around England. We all lived peacefully and cared for each other like normal society.

Then an extremist group from the Tibetian community wanted a land share, and the UN allocated them huge parts of the North and South. These areas were strictly for Tibetians only. Anyone who would protest or get kicked out would be labelled as a militant.

Then slowly the Tibetians, funded by China, settled illegally on more and more land, taking over England. English teenagers and youths who lost their homes would fight back with what they have, stones, and then be shot. Anyone protesting or arguing would be labelled as a terrorist.

After half a century all we have left is Birmingham. We are trapped by a huge wall around us. An English freedom fighting unit has been trying to regain our freedom but are being the scapegoat, and then finally we are being bombed daily with people dying everyday.

All the small English unit wants is their land back and everyone living in peace, English and Tibetians, and every other religion. Would you still say the English unit were terrorists and part of the problem?
Fuck that, if all we had left was Birmingham, I would move out.... Lol

Good point well presented Mo....
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      08-03-2014, 04:27 PM   #107
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I am deeply saddened to have logged onto e90post today, only to arrive at this disgusting thread. OP, you've turned a forum devoted to individuals' love for cars and community into a place where you could spew your hateful rhetoric behind the comfort of your computer screen.
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      08-03-2014, 04:35 PM   #108
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      08-03-2014, 04:50 PM   #109
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Let me just start off by saying that I don't identify with any religion; I simply don't belief in the notion. Yet, I have never been more ashamed to call myself a part of this community. To pretend that the conflict is about occupation, or hate, or anything but violent and despicable Jew hatred is a lie. There is only one reason we are discussing Israel, and not discussing Saudi Arabia; there is only one reason we are discussing Israel, and not discussing Iran; there is only one reason we are not discussing the vast bevy of human rights violations that happen every day in the Middle East, exponentially worse than what happens when Israel decides to exercise its right to defend itself. Everyone targeting Israel right now has seemed to have forgotten that there is only one country in the Middle East that has any sort of religious diversity in it. For someone to pretend that Israel is somehow on a lower moral plain is a direct manifestation of Anti-Semitism. If a terrorist organization were to fire rockets at our nation's capital day in and day out, what would you expect our officials in Washington do? Worse yet, if those rockets were being stored and fired from the vicinities of hospitals, schools, and homes? My goal here is not to get into an argument from the comfort of my office chair. I simply wanted to extend my viewpoint to anyone willing to listen. Thanks.
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      08-03-2014, 05:04 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktis_Conviction View Post
Let me just start off by saying that I don't identify with any religion; I simply don't belief in the notion. Yet, I have never been more ashamed to call myself a part of this community. To pretend that the conflict is about occupation, or hate, or anything but violent and despicable Jew hatred is a lie. There is only one reason we are discussing Israel, and not discussing Saudi Arabia; there is only one reason we are discussing Israel, and not discussing Iran; there is only one reason we are not discussing the vast bevy of human rights violations that happen every day in the Middle East, exponentially worse than what happens when Israel decides to exercise its right to defend itself. Everyone targeting Israel right now has seemed to have forgotten that there is only one country in the Middle East that has any sort of religious diversity in it. For someone to pretend that Israel is somehow on a lower moral plain is a direct manifestation of Anti-Semitism. If a terrorist organization were to fire rockets at our nation's capital day in and day out, what would you expect our officials in Washington do? Worse yet, if those rockets were being stored and fired from the vicinities of hospitals, schools, and homes? My goal here is not to get into an argument from the comfort of my office chair. I simply wanted to extend my viewpoint to anyone willing to listen. Thanks.
At the end end of the day: Nearly all of Israel is stolen Palestine. If you come into my house and I punch you in the face, only a moron would feel sorry for the tears you cry and say that it is "self defence" if you stab me.

Based on the above fact, it's far more realistic to call Israel the terrorists - since terror is what they are causing the native population.
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