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      09-24-2020, 12:49 PM   #2575
NorCalAthlete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
My youngest is maybe 1/2" shorter than I, but pushing 260. His oldest bro and I had an intervention of sorts last night. I was dreading the confrontation, but he seems really receptive to us helping to motivate him to drop a bunch of weight. His bro has been doing a X-fit for nearly a year, and will start dragging him there on Monday.
I've always paid for his membership at the gym but "I thought they were closed right now"

The other thing I know he needs even more is the nutritional counseling. I'm just afraid of places like Lindora, that they will be more about selling him "products" than knowledge and lifestyle changes.
I know they say "abs are made in the kitchen", but IMHO having been an athlete all my life and having weightlifted off and on for 20 years now...I'm gonna go against the strict trainer "wisdom" and shit and say it's 80% workouts and 20% diet.

I've had points where, per the dining facility charts and everything, I was consuming damn near 10,000 calories a day. I've also had points where I only consumed about 1,500 calories a day. My energy levels for workouts have varied but I stick to the plan and just vary the weights accordingly. Edit - additional note : a half ass workout is better than skipping a day. Consistency is key. A wall is built brick by brick and all that. Maybe some days you're able to lay 100 bricks and other days you don't have the energy and only manage 20 bricks, but as long as you keep adding bricks that's what matters. Keep at it, day by day, week by week. It takes about a month to build the habit to where you start looking forward to it or being able to self motivate to drag yourself to the gym and workout.

The primary factor is energy expended during the day has to be greater, by an order of magnitude, than the caloric intake. Doesn't matter if the calories are pizza and burgers or rice and grilled chicken - if you can work it off / sweat it out / etc you'll lose the weight. Additionally, don't be too focused on the pounds day by day - for starters, muscle weighs more than fat, so if you're weightlifting (rather than just doing HIIT cardio and shit to try and sweat out as much as possible) your "weight loss" will be slower or at times even stagnant, and focusing on lbs at that point will discourage you from continuing. Instead, focus on strength gains and tape measurements and it'll be easier to stay on track. I wouldn't focus on time either so much as reps completed, and proper form matters more than throwing weight around. You want steady, piston-like machine movements. If you're jerking shit around and have to use momentum to get it up / down / whatever, your form needs to improve.

Caveat - if you're doing olympic powerlifting like clean + jerk, that doesn't necessarily apply as much, I'm primarily referring to your core workout lifts like bench press, squat, overhead press, rows, curls, lat pulls, etc.

Additional disclaimer - don't fucking eat pizza and burgers every day, you DO have to maintain SOME kind of diet, I'm just saying don't trip too much over sticking to a strict one until you're down at like 12% body fat. If you're up over 20%, focus on the workouts and spending the energy more. Where a lot of people struggle and relapse into bad habits is when they try to tackle the whole problem all at once and stick to some kind of IFBB level super strict diet, workout, etc. Even the most motivated pros have trouble sticking to that shit without their trainers - you're setting yourself up for failure if you set that as your expectation at the beginning of your weight loss journey. I'd even go a bit further and say your trainers are trying to pad in some job security by setting you on that path at times. Sure, for the most optimum results if you stuck to that type of diet / workout you'd drop the weight faster, but a lot of this stuff is mental and you need small successes to build on. If you're immediately failing, time after time, because of super strict or unrealistic goals for yourself, you're going to relapse / yo-yo back to your old weight and beyond.

Some basic starters for diet :
  • No soda. None. Not 0 calorie, not 0 sugar, none. Get that entire category gone.
  • Limit beer intake - if you want to drink shift to wine or hard liquor; if your stomach can't handle that then simply drink less beer.
  • Limit condiments - a grilled chicken salad sounds healthy until you slather it with 5 gallons of ranch dressing. Chill with that shit. Same goes with mustard, ketchup, BBQ sauce, etc. Yeah, it adds flavor and tastes good and whatever...it's still just add-on empty calories.
  • Limit snacks between meals - chips, dip, etc. If you have to snack, make it healthier.
  • Limit junk food - not saying you have to cut it out of your life immediately, I still love a good bacon cheeseburger, but I'd say I indulge that urge maybe once a month at this point. Hell, even a chicken bowl from chipotle can be healthier than Five Guys burgers.

Last edited by NorCalAthlete; 09-24-2020 at 01:01 PM..
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      09-24-2020, 01:20 PM   #2576
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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
My goal was 300 bench, 400 squat and 500 dead. Made that, actually pushed 350 bench.

Honestly that's more along the lines of what I should be aiming for. I only really started to get serious about squats and deadlifts in my late 30's.

1MOREMOD may I ask how tall you are?

For some reason I've recently started naturally gripping the bar much wider (so much easier on my elbows) during squats, which has been nice.
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
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      09-24-2020, 01:32 PM   #2577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleWede View Post
My youngest is maybe 1/2" shorter than I, but pushing 260. His oldest bro and I had an intervention of sorts last night. I was dreading the confrontation, but he seems really receptive to us helping to motivate him to drop a bunch of weight. His bro has been doing a X-fit for nearly a year, and will start dragging him there on Monday.
I've always paid for his membership at the gym but "I thought they were closed right now"

The other thing I know he needs even more is the nutritional counseling. I'm just afraid of places like Lindora, that they will be more about selling him "products" than knowledge and lifestyle changes.
Creating a healthy affordable diet is not rocket science though, no need to shell out cash on nutritional counseling. There are plenty of healthy alternatives that can fix whatever cravings he is having (PEANUT BUTTER!!!!!! - my favorite food if you couldn't tell). Wish him luck, first step is actually understanding that you need a change. If he has that out of the way already then it's just a matter of perseverance. Good luck to him!
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      09-24-2020, 01:38 PM   #2578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post

Some basic starters for diet :
  • No soda. None. Not 0 calorie, not 0 sugar, none. Get that entire category gone. I can't resist 1 diet coke a day, unfortunate habit haha
  • Limit beer intake - if you want to drink shift to wine or hard liquor; if your stomach can't handle that then simply drink less beer. I lose my most amount of weight when binge drinking, how can this be!? Lol kidding, it's because I don't eat and am basically dying.
  • Limit condiments - a grilled chicken salad sounds healthy until you slather it with 5 gallons of ranch dressing. Chill with that shit. Same goes with mustard, ketchup, BBQ sauce, etc. Yeah, it adds flavor and tastes good and whatever...it's still just add-on empty calories. Everything in moderation on this one. I'm not eating a plain ass burger haha.
  • Limit snacks between meals - chips, dip, etc. If you have to snack, make it healthier. 100% concur
  • Limit junk food - not saying you have to cut it out of your life immediately, I still love a good bacon cheeseburger, but I'd say I indulge that urge maybe once a month at this point. Hell, even a chicken bowl from chipotle can be healthier than Five Guys burgers. Key is moderation again, every now an again is okay! I feel that the worst mistake someone just starting out in dieting can do is to over do it with that they cut out. This just leads to them quitting faster.
^
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      09-24-2020, 02:29 PM   #2579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP10 View Post
^
Exactly. I see way too many people try to jump on the all or nothing style though and cut everything 100% or stick to "cheat days" or something. Cheat day turns into a cheat week turns into "well guess I might as well skip the gym today since I already cheated on a meal..." and before you know it you fell off completely again.

FWIW I think if a burger is made and cooked correctly, all it should need is bacon, cheese, lettuce, tomato, and onion and it should be perfectly juicy without being "plain". No ketchup, mayo (especially mayo, bleh!), mustard, etc necessary. I'm at the point now where I flat out don't have any dressings except some light italian on my salads and ketchup for the fries, and that's it. I skip everything else. You just have to do it for like a month to kill the gut bacteria that crave it and create the urges, and then your tastebuds follow and enhance the other flavors and textures that were getting overpowered before.
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      09-24-2020, 04:02 PM   #2580
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The 2 things I repeated the most last night:
1) Everything in moderation
2) We will support you whatever you need

If I could change one person's understanding in the household, it would be the wife. I still can't get her to understand the basics of macros, 20+ years of her living with me as a diabetic. The 2 things I have made a difference in are 1) olive oil and 2) tacos de papas CON carne. At least there is a bit of protein in there.
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      09-24-2020, 05:20 PM   #2581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
Honestly that's more along the lines of what I should be aiming for. I only really started to get serious about squats and deadlifts in my late 30's.

1MOREMOD may I ask how tall you are?

For some reason I've recently started naturally gripping the bar much wider (so much easier on my elbows) during squats, which has been nice.
I'm 6 foot maybe 6'1". I never was very good at squat or dead, heavy anyway until later in my life. I probably did my first deadlift ever in mid to late 30s. Almoat 50 now and hit those numbers in the just the last year or so.
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      09-25-2020, 09:43 AM   #2582
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That's awesome! That's my goal to stay in great shape as I get older! At 50 are you having to supplement your test levels or not yet? I've read so much about the benefits and evidently no negative side effects so long as you're over 45 or something?
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Sounds pizzagatey.
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      09-25-2020, 11:53 AM   #2583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
That's awesome! That's my goal to stay in great shape as I get older! At 50 are you having to supplement your test levels or not yet? I've read so much about the benefits and evidently no negative side effects so long as you're over 45 or something?
Well there are always side effects, but if done properly they can all be managed. The major side effects is infertility. If you are past that stage of your life then there are only minimal effects (ball shrinkage, gyno, etc.). Although the minimal side effects are more pertinent to high dosage cycles. You're avg TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) is minimal dosage test just to keep your levels optimal. When you start increasing your test more dramatically (like all body builders) then your estrogen levels follow suit (moobs). Estrogen spikage can be countered through use of other drugs (nolvadex - same drug that is used when a patient is trying to get off test to start having kids actually as it restarts your test production). Also at high dosage is where you'll see the ball shrinkage as your body realizes it no longer needs to produce testosterone since you are getting it through alternative methods. There's another drug you can use to counter that us well, forgetting the name off the top of my head.

Long story short, find a good doctor who knows what he is doing. Like with any profession, you can run into someone who has no idea what they're doing. If they start over dosing you then you can encounter some of the topics I mentioned above. There are also other negatives like alcohol consumption can spike estrogen levels more drastically, messing with your hormones is no joke. There needs to be more information because unfortunately young and impatient people will start dosing before they understand the negatives. I only know what I know because of extensive research maybe 3-4 yrs ago, never dipped my toes because I realized what could follow and I still want kids.
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      09-25-2020, 03:24 PM   #2584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaorange View Post
That's awesome! That's my goal to stay in great shape as I get older! At 50 are you having to supplement your test levels or not yet? I've read so much about the benefits and evidently no negative side effects so long as you're over 45 or something?
Well there are always side effects, but if done properly they can all be managed. The major side effects is infertility. If you are past that stage of your life then there are only minimal effects (ball shrinkage, gyno, etc.). Although the minimal side effects are more pertinent to high dosage cycles. You're avg TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) is minimal dosage test just to keep your levels optimal.[COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"][/COLOR] When you start increasing your test more dramatically (like all body builders) then your estrogen levels follow suit (moobs). Estrogen spikage can be countered through use of other drugs (nolvadex - same drug that is used when a patient is trying to get off test to start having kids actually as it restarts your test production). Also at high dosage is where you'll see the ball shrinkage as your body realizes it no longer needs to produce testosterone since you are getting it through alternative methods. There's another drug you can use to counter that us well, forgetting the name off the top of my head.

Long story short, [COLOR="DarkSlateBlue"]find a good doctor who knows what he is doing. Like with any profession, you can run into someone who has no idea what they're doing.[/COLOR] If they start over dosing you then you can encounter some of the topics I mentioned above. There are also other negatives like alcohol consumption can spike estrogen levels more drastically, messing with your hormones is no joke. There needs to be more information because unfortunately young and impatient people will start dosing before they understand the negatives. I only know what I know because of extensive research maybe 3-4 yrs ago, never dipped my toes because I realized what could follow and I still want kids.
This. Hormones are very interesting to deal with and not so cut and dry. For instance, commercially available testosterone replacement is far higher than a healthy male at his peak endogenous testosterone level. I was just discussing this with a physician who has a male patient on pellets and wanting to switch him to a topical form of testosterone. This is not my area of expertise but was interesting to learn more about it this week.
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      09-25-2020, 03:56 PM   #2585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebekahb View Post
This. Hormones are very interesting to deal with and not so cut and dry. For instance, commercially available testosterone replacement is far higher than a healthy male at his peak endogenous testosterone level. I was just discussing this with a physician who has a male patient on pellets and wanting to switch him to a topical form of testosterone. This is not my area of expertise but was interesting to learn more about it this week.
Exactly, hormones are difficult to predict and no two people are the same.

Surprised they are using orals & topicals. The issue with orals is that they strain the hell of out your liver. You can try to keep it healthy with milk thistle, but still. Topical seems like a waste to me, rate of absorption isn't great. Plus I remember when I was reading about all this that guys were afraid to touch their kids or spouse after applying, which makes sense lmao.

Best absorption rate & least amount of damage to your organs is injection, but some are afraid of needles which I get.
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      09-25-2020, 08:24 PM   #2586
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Good back day today.

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