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      06-10-2019, 09:22 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Spot on !

For me, it's a racing incident. You can’t just stop the car and stay off the circuit."@JensonButton
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      06-10-2019, 09:52 AM   #68
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Aside of the Top 2 penalty discussion.

Great drive on both Renault Drivers the Hulk and Ric. Hold on to P6 and P7, with an average car. Especially RIC holding off the Merc for a few laps.

Also Max start off at the back, and a controlled pace with different strategy brought him to finish P5!

Even Stroll for P9 started off with Hard tires.

K.Mag, with more complaining, he will get himself fired from HAAS. He should be thankful he can still race on Sunday after destroyed the car during Q2. The team put a lot of effort to rebuild a new car for him. It is a privilege for him able to keep racing, not a right!
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      06-10-2019, 09:56 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Spot on !

For me, it's a racing incident. You can’t just stop the car and stay off the circuit."@JensonButton
I think the catch was that the run-off was grass. How the F can you stop the car on a slippery grass turf? The only option for VET was to keep the momentum and try to keep the car pointing on the vaguely right direction.

If it is a big paved run-off, it will be a slam dunk penalty no doubt.
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      06-10-2019, 11:31 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I think the catch was that the run-off was grass. How the F can you stop the car on a slippery grass turf? The only option for VET was to keep the momentum and try to keep the car pointing on the vaguely right direction.

If it is a big paved run-off, it will be a slam dunk penalty no doubt.
The question has to be asked did Vettel keep his foot on the load pedal through the grass? Would he have done that in a non-race situation? Like practice for instance. It sure looks like he was on it through the grass if you look how his car reacts on the transition off the grass. In practice he would have completely come of the accelerator after that first apex of the chicane to protect the car and the engine deceleration would have slowed the car more dramatically. The stewards obviously believe there was opportunity to return to the track less aggressively. Vettel gambled and stayed in it hoping to keep in front of Lewis. It didn't work out for him.

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      06-10-2019, 11:43 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
When the Ferrari back steps out slightly and went on to the grass run-off. The car had lost quite a bit of control, and Vettel was fighting to regain control. Hamilton saw the opportunity and went for it, didn't think of how much the Ferrari was still under control. Vettel could've easily crashed into the wall, or even collect Hamilton with it!
Looks like the stewards felt there was a second movement. They also saw Vettel on cctv look in his mirror for Lewis, showing he did indeed know where Lewis was.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...anada/4461461/

Quote:
The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track – which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right by the German.

Shortly after that, however, Vettel has dispatched the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel which allows his car to drift to the right – cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.
Quote:
A further reason the stewards established was through the use of an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international feed, showing Vettel's head looking in the mirrors at where Hamilton was during these moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.
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The fact that telemetry data showed Hamilton had to brake to avoid the collision with Vettel showed how the Mercedes driver was caught out by his rival's actions.

Precedent for the Vettel decision to punish him for both rejoining the track in an unsafe manner and forcing a rival off the track was made last year in Japan when Max Verstappen was punished with a five-second penalty for a collision with Kimi Raikkonen at the chicane.
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      06-10-2019, 01:47 PM   #72
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I hope this doesn't set a precedence for more of this.


In Hamilton's words..."I kept my normal racing line and speed".



How many times in a single race does a driver, including the 2 Merc guys (especially), do something off track or overly aggressive that makes another driver check up? So, now what? Is everybody just gonna drive boot down? "Hey, I kept my normal racing line and speed?" They called it for Merc and Hamilton. We'll just see Safety Car racing.



I agree with the previous comments regarding the great race for the others. Happy for Danny Ric and LeClerc. Would LOVE to see Rossi in an F1 car.
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      06-10-2019, 02:40 PM   #73
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...--nico-rosberg

Nico not exactly a fan of Lewis

"Damn! Like, just focus - and nail those laps.

"You have a chance there still to win this thing.

"That was a weakness again from Vettel.

"He has such strong self belief and always thinks that he is in the right, and then always wants to blame other people.

"And then he just loses focus in those moments, and doesn't make the most of it.

"That was not great to see from him. And then after the race, all those gestures and disrespectful comments calling the stewards 'blind' men and all that.

"It is just unnecessary. It is not very good."
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      06-10-2019, 02:45 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanatic1 View Post
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...--nico-rosberg

Nico not exactly a fan of Lewis

"Damn! Like, just focus - and nail those laps.

"You have a chance there still to win this thing.

"That was a weakness again from Vettel.

"He has such strong self belief and always thinks that he is in the right, and then always wants to blame other people.

"And then he just loses focus in those moments, and doesn't make the most of it.

"That was not great to see from him. And then after the race, all those gestures and disrespectful comments calling the stewards 'blind' men and all that.

"It is just unnecessary. It is not very good."
That has been a well known fact for a very long time. Their last year together at Merc was probably the worst it has ever been between 2 race drivers in the same team.
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      06-10-2019, 03:06 PM   #75
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no one remembers the penalty Hamilton had 11 years ago between Kimi.. he had to cut the chicane like Vettel said "where else he could ve gone" even gave back the advantage, overtook Raikkonen again but they took his victory after the race.. no one was telling that FIA was killing the sports.. action is on 1:15..

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      06-10-2019, 03:19 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
no one remembers the penalty Hamilton had 11 years ago between Kimi.. he had to cut the chicane like Vettel said "where else he could ve gone" even gave back the advantage, overtook Raikkonen again but they took his victory after the race.. no one was telling that FIA was killing the sports.. action is on 1:15..

Awesome, great driving by both Lewis and Kimi.
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      06-10-2019, 03:28 PM   #77
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in that racing in the chicane he made 2 lane differences on the straight he wasnt even blocking Kimi but he had his penalty caused to lose his race.. it was super weird..
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      06-10-2019, 03:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
no one remembers the penalty Hamilton had 11 years ago between Kimi.. he had to cut the chicane like Vettel said "where else he could ve gone" even gave back the advantage, overtook Raikkonen again but they took his victory after the race.. no one was telling that FIA was killing the sports.. action is on 1:15..

I don't see how that incident is really comparable to the current one though. Hamilton appeared to cut across a paved section while attempting a pass, possibly allowing better traction than if he was accelerating out of the corner (not saying he actually took advantage or not) and then immediately came back and passed Kimi. I still would've been upset if they made that penalty known during the race while they were still battling (Kimi crashed directly after anyways though haha). I'm guessing he wouldn't have gotten the penalty if he had waited until the next corner.

This incident wouldn't have been so bad if they had just waited until after the race to give a penalty. It just killed the suspense of the race halfway through. If you wanna penalize for something like this just hold out until post race, so the racing can at least continue for everyone to enjoy.
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      06-10-2019, 03:49 PM   #79
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I see it slightly different.
Back in 2008, the rule did say you have to give the position back. And surely Hamilton did exactly what the rule said. But still got penalized, because back then the stewards think Hamilton didn't give back enough or some BS, and stuck with the "gained an advantage" penalty.

Hamilton still got penalized for following the rule book.

Sometimes stewards ruling will drive you crazy.
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      06-10-2019, 03:53 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
in that racing in the chicane he made 2 lane differences on the straight he wasnt even blocking Kimi but he had his penalty caused to lose his race.. it was super weird..
Watched the race from West Coast, had to get up at 5am, and went back to bed after the awesome race. Then woke up again found out the penalty, WTF.
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      06-10-2019, 04:21 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Watched the race from West Coast, had to get up at 5am, and went back to bed after the awesome race. Then woke up again found out the penalty, WTF.
hehe yeah i can guess..
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      06-10-2019, 04:41 PM   #82
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Telemetry available to stewards apparently showed vett stayed on the throttle, one view showed he was clearly looking at that right hand side mirror,
this was going to be a pass no doubt, he always makes mistakes under pressure, this is not new.. also i am a biased merc fan
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      06-10-2019, 06:01 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Fender150 View Post
Telemetry available to stewards apparently showed vett stayed on the throttle, one view showed he was clearly looking at that right hand side mirror,
this was going to be a pass no doubt, he always makes mistakes under pressure, this is not new.. also i am a biased merc fan
Yes, posted a link above. In car video, cctv, and telemetry not backing Vettel's version of events.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...anada/4461461/

Article also sites Verstappen last year getting same penalty under current rules. Look up Kimi vs Max Japan. Max's tires are coated in green as he comes back on circuit cuts across the track right to left into Kimi. Very similar situation.
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      06-10-2019, 09:34 PM   #84
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      06-11-2019, 01:13 AM   #85
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When they have it paused you can see Vettel looking to the right at Hamilton in his mirror. Not buying for second Vettel saying he didn’t know where Lewis was. He catches it, then starts to turn wheel left to go straight. Then he looks in right mirror and lets the car drift right. It is obvious he kept it pinned and tried his best to use as much track as possible to cover Lewis. Lewis then slammed on brakes to avoid being sandwhiched in the wall. Vettel cut second half of chicane and unsafely re-entered. Penalty assigned nothing more to it. He has no one but himself to blame.
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      06-11-2019, 01:32 AM   #86
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Some of you guys just don't want to see racing I guess. You can argue the rules and whether he broke them all day, but for true racing fans that was just bs.
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      06-11-2019, 01:46 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieGrüneHölle View Post
Yes, posted a link above. In car video, cctv, and telemetry not backing Vettel's version of events.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...anada/4461461/

Article also sites Verstappen last year getting same penalty under current rules. Look up Kimi vs Max Japan. Max's tires are coated in green as he comes back on circuit cuts across the track right to left into Kimi. Very similar situation.
Max vs Kimi last year in Japan. About as close to the same situation as you can get. Only thing missing is the wall, so Kimi didn't have to brake like Lewis. Max was assessed same 5 sec penalty.



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      06-11-2019, 08:20 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by yco View Post
this decision is controversial but there are few facts on the race..

1. HAM pushed him to make a mistake VET made a mistake..
2. yes Vettel was struggling but after fully getting the control of the car back.. he didnt try to leave space he made line even wider to squeeze.. if he wouldnt do it like that i d clearly say Vettel was a victim.. but this way things are not clear.. i believe deep inside VET knows it also..
3. i wished HAM could overtake on the track but seems car was boiling pretty much didnt help him to do it..
4. VET made another mistake again a big one.. 4 times world champ making too much critical mistakes..
5. this incident will be talked all week..
Honestly Vettel has to know he intentionally went full speed from the grass... Yes the oversteer from the bump, cause he was going in full force. I think most drivers would have submitted after such a mistake.

Love watching Hamilton on the hunt, as he always performs in these circumstances. Rarely does he actually get to attack, but the hunt is awesome to watch regardless. How pissed i got both times HAM locked up in the chicane though, not !
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