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      05-17-2018, 09:46 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by kprocivic View Post
That's coming from someone who isn't an assshole with morals.
I mean you make stupid comments, you get stupid answers... doesn't make a person an outright asshole nor someone without morals...
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      05-17-2018, 10:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I mean you make stupid comments, you get stupid answers... doesn't make a person an outright asshole nor someone without morals...
I'm sorry you felt my remark was stupid, I feel the same way when people bitch about things they are in complete control over.
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      05-17-2018, 11:16 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
yeah thats a wonderful explanation / excuse for people being assholes and having no morals
I believe he meant: courage, intestinal fortitude, perseverance and the ability to overcome disappointments and rejection. This has been true forever.
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      05-18-2018, 09:16 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
What a load of horseshit. There's nothing wrong with the younger generation at all. What I have noticed is that it's probably just more stratified. There are probably more "good" young people than ever before, and there's lots of shitheads (but there always were). What's different is that there are less in the middle because you have to work a whole hell of a harder as a kid these days if you want the opportunities that post-secondary education and/or entrepreneurship provide.
What's a load of horse shit here? My opinion? If you'll re-read the original post I said nothing of this being directed solely at the younger generation. There are things that I scoff about with the younger generation but my thought expressed here is not aimed directly at them but people in general. Quite honestly I see more of this mentality coming from those between the ages of 30 and 50. I don't disagree with your views on the younger generation. I know some really great hardworking kids.

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Double your tax rates and get back to me.
I plan to. Give me about 2-3 years and I'll get back to you.

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Originally Posted by Sea-Tac View Post
Don't loose your mind over this. Its life. Its change. Its movement forward.

Children learn values from their parents. These values are reinforced by other institutions, like schools and churches. But, values are also learned and re-inforced other ways. Peer influence is especially strong. "In the olden days" our peer structure was mostly the friends we went to school with, played sports with or worked with, and who came from similar backgrounds, etc. Its completely different today. I think the term "peer" now extends to the entire audience created by social media. We cannot discount the impact and importance of this method of communication. Its powerful and young people are at the leading edge of this.

I agree things have changed. They aren't the same as what we considered the norm. New norms of conduct and values are emerging. I don't think this is necessarily bad, its just different. I see it as part of our cultural evolution. The young will always replace the old and along with that comes different values, different beliefs and different ideas. It can uncomfortable but I see this a inherently positive.
I appreciate your words here and very much agree with your point of peer influence. I think this is exactly where my feeling of the entitlement originates. I also did not take into consideration the area in which the individuals that I speak of reside when making my post. I live in a small southern rural area where many live off of government assistance and those that aren't addicted to meth or opiates work in factories. I hope this paints the picture a little more clearly to everyone.

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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
I agree 100%... I can't recall a generation as disrespectful and dumb as the current maybe less barbaric times... you reap what you sow... gl young lads. btw... I am 30 lol
I personally feel that it's not so much generational as it is just a bad influence of attitude and self entitlement that has spread like a disease. Not very many are willing to work to reap the benefits as much as "they" expect things just to come to them or people to take care of them. The lack of respect for those that actually work and make an extra effort to get ahead in life fails to be recognized.

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Originally Posted by schoy View Post
+1. The myth that today's younger generation is somehow less hard-working and more self-entitled is a load of crock. If anything they are MORE hard-working and feel less self-entitled than our generation.
Your response is very well informed, intelligent and accurate. I concur with all that was stated although I made no mention of this being directed at the younger generation.

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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I think what you are saying has been going on for several decades but has simply just worsened exponentially due the internet and especially social media.

It sounds cliche but I just don't have much faith in people anymore. People in the professional world are out to backstab and screw you, people on social media just want attention, people drive like assholes, etc. Everybody's in it for themselves no matter whatever BS they preach. That is why I laugh at people on the far left who despise Trump for being a jerk yet they do scummier things in their own personal lives, and the same goes for people on the far right hating on X Y Z.

I don't trust a single soul outside my mother, father, and my bank account. In general, outside my immediate family and 10-15 close friends I don't care for anybody. I used to not have this attitude and be kinder and more trust of people, until I was repeatedly taken advatange of and harassed by the people I trusted to help me. Screw everyone.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I too have become a bit of a recluse; not because I'm naturally reclusive but because I have grown to realize the exact points that you made. I've actually become a happier person by being less involved in other people's lives. I have a handful of close friends that I consider family, along with my children and my girlfriend I simply no longer associate with anyone. Shutting my facebook account down last year was one of the greatest things I've ever done.

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Originally Posted by kprocivic View Post
At the end of the day it matters who you know and how big your balls are. That's the best I can put it.
Funny and accurate at the same time. I had a grown ass man tell on me this week at work. This individual has been quoted with "I may not be good at my job, but if I can kiss an ass or two and keep my job, then that's what I'll do." I don't feel that I need to elaborate any further.

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Originally Posted by Zing View Post
In my opinion, society changed (for the worse) when spanking your children became "abuse" and we (collectively) stopped doing it.
DING DING DING!!!! WINNER!!! I lost control of my household and my children at an early age. Less than a year into my second marriage, the (then) wife was upstairs sleeping, as she had worked a late shift the night before, my oldest child was downstairs screaming at the top of his lungs for no reason other than his younger brother was annoying him. Sternly I made my point to be quiet as their step-mother was sleeping. Less than a minute later it started again so I swatted his ass and told him it would only get worse if he continued. When I arrived at work, I received a phone call from the schools guidance counselor claiming child abuse. The school sided with my child and the next afternoon I had the Department of Children Services at my home interviewing my wife and I.

I was informed by DCS that I needed to find other avenues of disciplining my children as spanking them was considered physical abuse. I'm going to stop here as I can feel my blood pressure rising from revisiting this, but yes I agree with you.

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Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
Once you quit hearing sir and maam the rest is soon to foller.
This quote has stuck with me since I first heard it. Tommy Lee Jones - No Country for Old Men. Well done.

.....and right you are.
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      05-18-2018, 09:32 AM   #27
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It can all be directly attributed to, "The Participation Award".
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      05-18-2018, 09:33 AM   #28
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Well, since you asked...

This is the Participation Trophy Generation. And before blaming it, think about who raised it, and who raised them...

- Before 1900 - agricultural generation, where fathers raised the boys in their business, and mothers raised girls at home

- 1900-1920 - Industrialization, where fathers went to factory jobs, and mothers raised boys and girls both at home

- 1920-1940 - Great Depression, WW1 - very tough times - the Greatest Generation

- 1940-1970 - Post-depression, post-war. This generation wanted to give their kids everything, which led to the Hippies, who were raised to believe they knew everything, and were more enlightened than their parents generation. This was largely fomented by the development of.... Antibiotics! More on that below...

- 1970-1990 - Participation Trophy Generation - who believe they are inherently special, and have all the answers for themselves and everyone else

IMHO, it started with the best intentions of the Greatest Generation. Because people are the same as they were for the past thousands of years, we have a natural tendency to focus on ourselves (it's called "Pride"). When you remove the concept that their is something greater than the individual (daresay "God"), the individual comes to decisions, judgements, and conclusions that are inherently and logically flawed. Which is where we are today. Collective though of Individuals (yes, think about that...) has decided:

- Your biological race and gender are what you want it to be (vs. what biology tells you),
- You can tell others where they need to be charitable,
- You can decide how people can use their personal property,
- You can decide when a life becomes a life, (vs. what science tells you),
- and on and on - the rules are entirely of your own perception, for you and everyone else.

Prior to 1950, if you slept with someone, shared needles, or whatever, you ran a significant risk of getting a disease. Aside from whatever religious reasons, society condemned this behavior because it let to all sorts of tragedy for the individual and their family, usually resulting in multiple ugly deaths, birth defects, etc. Antibiotics removed these guardrails. When AIDS emerged, that generation grew up thinking there was a pill to cure anything, and was horrified to discover it was only preventable, not curable. (Funding for a AIDS cure was 10x the funding for a breast cancer cure, leading to the development of AIDS mitigation drugs, which we have today). Now it's things like Super-Gonorrhea and Ebola.

So the problem with humanity is Pride - it all stems back to that, and has since we climbed out of the swamp. This generation isn't any different, just more enabled in their exercise of Pride - social media, money, time, etc.

And antibiotics...
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      05-18-2018, 09:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zing View Post
In my opinion, society changed (for the worse) when spanking your children became "abuse" and we (collectively) stopped doing it.
Yes beating children is the answer! A black eye and red rear end outta teach em. We would all be better off if our parents and caretakers physically assaulted us.
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      05-18-2018, 09:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I think what you are saying has been going on for several decades but has simply just worsened exponentially due the internet and especially social media.

It sounds cliche but I just don't have much faith in people anymore. People in the professional world are out to backstab and screw you, people on social media just want attention, people drive like assholes, etc. Everybody's in it for themselves no matter whatever BS they preach. That is why I laugh at people on the far left who despise Trump for being a jerk yet they do scummier things in their own personal lives, and the same goes for people on the far right hating on X Y Z.

I don't trust a single soul outside my mother, father, and my bank account. In general, outside my immediate family and 10-15 close friends I don't care for anybody. I used to not have this attitude and be kinder and more trust of people, until I was repeatedly taken advatange of and harassed by the people I trusted to help me. Screw everyone.
Dude - don't put trust in your bank account - money is as "faithful as a pussycat." Reminds me of a German relative, who said he had watched the money collapse three times in his life - can you imagine that? And some states currently have an "intangibles tax" that can dry up your bank account without you ever making a withdrawal. About 8 years ago Congress was considering a tax on "imputed income" as a factor in Social Security.
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      05-18-2018, 09:45 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Yes beating children is the answer! A black eye and red rear end outta teach em. We would all be better off if our parents and caretakers physically assaulted us.
Nobody has proposed "beating" your children or giving them a black eye. But nice try on the inflammatory tactics.

We would be better off if there was physical discipline at an early age. Doesn't work after a certain age IMO though, then there needs to be a switch in tactics to recognize they have matured.
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      05-18-2018, 09:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Yes beating children is the answer! A black eye and red rear end outta teach em. We would all be better off if our parents and caretakers physically assaulted us.
What an ignorant, asinine comment!

I said "spank". I'm at a complete loss how a reasonable, rational person could infer "beat" and "black eye" from my post.

Serves me right for opining, I guess. Not to worry though, I'll think long and hard before I do such a thing again.
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      05-18-2018, 09:55 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Not_Judy View Post

This quote has stuck with me since I first heard it. Tommy Lee Jones - No Country for Old Men. Well done.

.....and right you are.
Yep my favorite movie probably. Every line is poetry.

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      05-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Yes beating children is the answer! A black eye and red rear end outta teach em. We would all be better off if our parents and caretakers physically assaulted us.
Spanking isn't beating. This conflation is just stupid.
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      05-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #35
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Oh ya, today's society is going great.

Woman Literally Shits On Floor Of Tim Hortons & Throws It At Employee

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      05-18-2018, 10:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
Woman Literally Shits On Floor Of Tim Hortons & Throws It At Employee
Welp that’s enough internet for today folks.
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      05-18-2018, 10:22 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It can all be directly attributed to, "The Participation Award".
+1 I'll agree with this as well. Case in point, in my position there are no set guidelines as to my responsibilities. This works great for the company I work for as they can throw pretty much anything at me; to which I don't mind. It broadens my abilities and I learn a lot by this being the case, however; many of the tasks that I am given have already been asked of others that failed to complete but after I finish said tasks it seems there is no form of reprimand to those who fail yet they receive accolades for "doing such a good job." Sickens me to see others fail but get congratulated on my efforts.

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Originally Posted by bbbbmw View Post
So the problem with humanity is Pride - it all stems back to that, and has since we climbed out of the swamp. This generation isn't any different, just more enabled in their exercise of Pride - social media, money, time, etc.

And antibiotics...
In the words of Marsellus Wallace, "Fuck pride. Pride only hurts, it never helps."

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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Yes beating children is the answer! A black eye and red rear end outta teach em. We would all be better off if our parents and caretakers physically assaulted us.
Who said anything about beating children??? A fear of consequences is definitely healthy thing to have as a child. I'm not asking anyone's child to live in fear of their parent but there needs to be some form of recourse to negative behavior or unacceptable actions. Rather than teaching our children by discipline perhaps we should use your strategery of sarcasm, that would be sooo much better.

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Originally Posted by Joekerr View Post
Nobody has proposed "beating" your children or giving them a black eye. But nice try on the inflammatory tactics.

We would be better off if there was physical discipline at an early age. Doesn't work after a certain age IMO though, then there needs to be a switch in tactics to recognize they have matured.
Very much this!! The trick is giving them black eyes at an early age.

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Originally Posted by Zing View Post
What an ignorant, asinine comment!

I said "spank". I'm at a complete loss how a reasonable, rational person could infer "beat" and "black eye" from my post.

Serves me right for opining, I guess. Not to worry though, I'll think long and hard before I do such a thing again.
Same. It took me a few to come up with a reply. I'm thinking this is exactly the mentality that this thread is about.

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Yep mt favorite movie probably. Every line is poetry.
Agreed, very well written and directed. One of my top 10.
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      05-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #38
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Oh ya, today's society is going great.

Woman Literally Shits On Floor Of Tim Hortons & Throws It At Employee

Saw this on Desus & Mero last night and at a total loss of words.....but yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about!
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      05-18-2018, 10:29 AM   #39
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+1. The myth that today's younger generation is somehow less hard-working and more self-entitled is a load of crock. If anything they are MORE hard-working and feel less self-entitled than our generation.

Even though I'm twice their age, I interact with college students from our local college (and high school students occasionally) on a weekly basis (not part of my day-to-day job; just something I do on the side), and I constantly marvel just how hard they work (and worked in high school) to get where they are. Kids nowadays know how competitive the job market is, and that they have to do every little "extra" (extra studying, extra activities, etc.) to distinguish them from their peers. Back in our day, straight "As" in high school virtually guaranteed admission into any UC, including UC Berkeley. Nowadays, straight As only get you into a mid-level UC (like UC Irvine, possibly UC Davis).

Of course there have always been kids that were slackers or felt self-entitled. Moreover, every kid (myself included, and 99.99% you as well) has at one time or another complained about working hard. It's just that back then, you only complained to your parents and your friends. Nowadays, you can complain to the world over social media, and if enough kids voice their complaints, it sounds like every kid feels "self-entitled", when the actual fact is completely the opposite.

Finally, for those decrying the value of a college education: A college degree has always been, still is, and probably will always be, the best indicator of financial success. Virtually every high-paying job requires a college degree. Lawyer? Doctor? Computer programmer? Engineer? All of them. I would also hazard a guess that 95-99% of all Fortune 500 executives have a college degree as well (I know all the ones in my company do).

Now is it true that you need a college education for success? Of course not, there are exceptions. But even in the exceptions, many of these people were smart enough that they would have been (or were) accepted into a college had they decided to go this route. Zuckerburg? Accepted into Harvard before dropping out sophomore year. Wozniak and Jobs? Former went to UC Berkeley; latter went to Reed College. Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer? Harvard (Gates dropped out early).

Now are there majors in college that don't equate to financial success? Of course. But most kids know this before they choose their major; they take the risk of high student loans to enter a field that they really enjoy (like teaching, museum curating, writing, etc.). It's no different than an entrepreneur getting a bank loan or VC funding on a wing and prayer, and then crashing out in bankruptcy when the idea dies. It's the exact same analysis.
I feel like you have a very one sided view. I also work with college kids as part of a mentoring program of the director board I sit on. All of the kids I see through that program are indeed hard working.

However, that is far from the normal. I also know a lot of the kids (my brother was one of them) that have a weird sense of self entitlement. Saying that since they are only getting $70k as a new hire out of college they are underpaid because they heard one person in a different city was getting paid $90k out of college.

For the grades not going as far as they used to... it is because it is much easier to get a 4.0 now than it was when we were in school. My wife is a teacher and they are not allowed to flunk people unless they jump through more hoops than it takes to fire someone. All of the students can just retake tests they didn't do well on at a later time and having up to a 5.0 when graduating is not that abnormal.

I will say that she mentions the kindergartners are further ahead academically than we were in kindergarten so perhaps they are just ahead throughout school now - but that is to be expected over time. I am sure we learned at a much faster pace than our parents as well, the scales just updated to reflect this new normal pace.
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      05-18-2018, 10:40 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Not_Judy View Post
What's a load of horse shit here? My opinion? If you'll re-read the original post I said nothing of this being directed solely at the younger generation. There are things that I scoff about with the younger generation but my thought expressed here is not aimed directly at them but people in general. Quite honestly I see more of this mentality coming from those between the ages of 30 and 50. I don't disagree with your views on the younger generation. I know some really great hardworking kids.
Where did I say I was singling your post out? You weren't being specific but the rest of the threads assumed you were talking about young people and I think that view is horseshit and I called it horseshit.

You've clarified. Thanks. Not sure I entirely agree either but you're right ... it's an opinion.
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      05-18-2018, 10:53 AM   #41
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As many have stated already, it starts with the parenting. I'm not saying parents of the last 10 years are bad, they are just different from generations past and it cultivated a different crop of young adults. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but in general the broad differences I see in parenting now vs. when I was a kid in the late 70s / early 80s:

Discipline Differences: The spanking thing was brought up already. Also, it's no longer socially acceptable for a stranger (or even a teacher) to call your kid out for being a sh*t. I can recall acting out once in the school parking lot and a random kid's mother pulled me aside and sternly lectured me. My mom walked up, assessed the situation, thanked the lady sincerely and immediately took away my TV viewing rights for a week. These days a parent would lose their sh*t on someone who dared to discipline their little angel. There was a general sense, when I was a kid, that all adults were watching and could all hand out discipline at any time. Kept us more or less in line.

Helicopter Parents: This one kills me. Parents who are so hyper involved that they essentially project manage every moment of the kid's life. Kids are no longer left alone to "figure it out" or self entertain. The parents are there 24-7 to structure, educate, and protect. I have co-workers with highschool kids who drive them to school every morning so they dont have to take the bus. They have to leave work early to take their 17 year old to the dentist. They "work from home" because their 14 year old is home sick from school. They cater to every need and whim. It grows adults who expect things to be handed to them. "I did my job, therefore I deserve a promotion." "Reward me, acknowledge me, grade me, rate me...." The constant attention from the parental units breeds adults who require constant attention, accolades, and praise.

Electronics: Kids with iPads and other electronic devices in front of their faces 24-7. My parents were worried about our brains going to mush from too much TV and to some degree they were right. But TV watching is mostly a passive activity. All the video games and kid oriented "learning" devices are hyper-stimulating the reward centers of those little brains. Kids grow up needing that little dopamine kick. They grow up learning "push right button, get instant reward" which translates into "Do my job, get raise and promotion." A few of my more memorable recent reviews with under-30 employees involved expectation setting around why the employee cant expect a 20% raise year over year. There's also the "No, the reward for simply doing your job is keeping your job, and getting a paycheck. If you'd like a promotion and a raise yo need to do MORE than your current job requires." discussion that I have had multiple times.

Again, I dont know that parents today are any worse or better than mine, but they are different and it's creating different adults. Adults who in my opinion are hyper-needy and have issues with self sufficiency, self-awareness, and self-esteem. The number of my friends kids in counseling is breathtaking. It's at least 50% at any given time. Sad.

Last edited by DETRoadster; 05-18-2018 at 10:58 AM..
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      05-18-2018, 10:56 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck View Post
Where did I say I was singling your post out? You weren't being specific but the rest of the threads assumed you were talking about young people and I think that view is horseshit and I called it horseshit.

You've clarified. Thanks. Not sure I entirely agree either but you're right ... it's an opinion.
Nothing stated that you singled my post out, but with the lack of quoting any of the other posts in your response I assumed as well that you were referring to the original post. No worries man, I'm not upset, just trying to clarify. I've learned to try to give the benefit of doubt before going full Mustang on anyone.
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      05-18-2018, 10:58 AM   #43
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It's almost like there has been a long march through the institutions or something
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      05-18-2018, 12:34 PM   #44
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It's far beyond just participation trophies.

More kids these days are latchkey kids. Both their parents are working. Also increasing amount of single parents. Jobs require more moving around the country so family support is less.

They are growing up with the internet and parents don't know how to regulate. Social media is new to parents, but to kids these days it has always been around, like the telephone to me. They understand it and use it better. This changes how they interact, and importantly who they interact with. Very good and very bad influences.

We've been at war since they've been born. People will be voting in the next general election that have never know peace. Views on 'other people', military, war, is going to be different in some ways. I don't know for sure, but it's going to be different.

Changing job market. You no longer do what your dad/mom did. Jobs are changing constantly with technology. Heck, car mechanics use computers more than wrenches (well, not quite, but maybe soon). The rate of technology change is faster than ever.

Information overload. Previously, all you knew is what mom/dad taught you or what you learned at school. To research something you had to get a ride to the library and read up on stuff. Now you just have to ask alexa. Everyone is opinionated, finding the truth is harder and harder, and people these days tend to believe what the feel is right, with no questioning attitude.

I don't envy the new generation.
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