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      08-12-2015, 01:17 PM   #45
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Also, Tire Rack has the X1 B6's denoted as "C" for "comfort, rather than "HD". The Bilstein catalog, however, has them marked as "HD".

http://cart.bilsteinus.com/search/mm.../drivetype=AWD
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      08-13-2015, 10:41 AM   #46
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Good times on this one!!

Ugh, who gives a shit. Coil overs are always better. (if they are good ones)

You can build any car and learn how to drive on a track...duh.


But some of us just want a lower height wih decent ride.

Not sure what HR sends out with the B12. HD's or Sports. Prob HDs since they don't list any B8's anywhere. Even in the German catalog.

And yea you can find B6 HD on a ton of sights.
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      08-13-2015, 11:18 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X1Denver View Post

Not sure what HR sends out with the B12. HD's or Sports. Prob HDs since they don't list any B8's anywhere. Even in the German catalog.

And yea you can find B6 HD on a ton of sights.
I'd assume so. Would think that if they made them for the B12, they'd have no reason not to offer them for sale separately.
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      08-13-2015, 05:10 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I'd assume so. Would think that if they made them for the B12, they'd have no reason not to offer them for sale separately.
Except B12 for X1 is Pro-Kit (B6 shocks) not Sportline (B8). I am still waiting on my B12 kit...
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      08-13-2015, 07:31 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by kychungkevin View Post
Except B12 for X1 is Pro-Kit (B6 shocks) not Sportline (B8). I am still waiting on my B12 kit...
Yeah, that's what we were assuming. If the B8s weren't for sale separately, it makes sense that the Pro-bit uses B6s.

Link to those details though? Hard to find a description of the B12s that gives any details on the shocks.

Do we think the springs are just the H&Rs?

God damn, would have been cheaper to just wait on a Pro-Kit.

But this is good...another guy seeing how it goes running full-length monotube shocks with mild-drop springs. I think it will work out OK. Let me know what they tell you to do with the rear bump stops when you get your kit.
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      08-13-2015, 07:55 PM   #50
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I'm getting ahead of myself here as I haven't test-driven an X1 yet, but for those that have upgraded the suspension, did you start from the M line package? I am looking at the E84 X1 as a new car, but may want to do some autocross with it as well. Should I skip the M line cars if it's better to upgrade to coilovers anyway? Sounds like it may even out price-wise anyway.

I am looking for a replacement car for my E36 M3 sedan, which had the ground control coilovers and 450/550 pound springs. I'm not expecting the same handling from an X1 obviously, but I'm fine with a stiffer setup for the roads I see. I don't see spring rates mentioned anywhere, so curious if anyone knows the stock rates (presumably a progressive range?) and what the various upgrade kits offer.
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      08-14-2015, 08:55 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black-box View Post
I'm getting ahead of myself here as I haven't test-driven an X1 yet, but for those that have upgraded the suspension, did you start from the M line package? I am looking at the E84 X1 as a new car, but may want to do some autocross with it as well. Should I skip the M line cars if it's better to upgrade to coilovers anyway? Sounds like it may even out price-wise anyway.

I am looking for a replacement car for my E36 M3 sedan, which had the ground control coilovers and 450/550 pound springs. I'm not expecting the same handling from an X1 obviously, but I'm fine with a stiffer setup for the roads I see. I don't see spring rates mentioned anywhere, so curious if anyone knows the stock rates (presumably a progressive range?) and what the various upgrade kits offer.
Ugg...this is a tough post to reply to. An E36 is on of the best driving chassis every made, to date even. You're in for a big change with the X1.

No much data on the stock spring rates...and H&R typically doesn't like to reveal their rates either...but it sounds like you definitely want to be going more the coilover route.

I'm sure you can shoot KW an email and see what they ship with their V3s (or otherwise recommend), and I know paradoxical has posted his spring rates in here.
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      08-14-2015, 09:05 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black-box View Post
I'm getting ahead of myself here as I haven't test-driven an X1 yet, but for those that have upgraded the suspension, did you start from the M line package? I am looking at the E84 X1 as a new car, but may want to do some autocross with it as well. Should I skip the M line cars if it's better to upgrade to coilovers anyway? Sounds like it may even out price-wise anyway.

I am looking for a replacement car for my E36 M3 sedan, which had the ground control coilovers and 450/550 pound springs. I'm not expecting the same handling from an X1 obviously, but I'm fine with a stiffer setup for the roads I see. I don't see spring rates mentioned anywhere, so curious if anyone knows the stock rates (presumably a progressive range?) and what the various upgrade kits offer.
The X1 is never going to be as fast as an e36 with the same amount of money dumped into it. I have a friend who owns a shop that supercharged his e36, threw a wing and $1200 coilovers on it (cheap) and is running 1:38 at Mid Ohio and ran 2:10 at Watkins Glen his first time on the track - all on street tires. He is $11k all-in on the car including the purchase price of the car. e36 M3s are amazing.

That being said, if you don't supercharge the e36 the X1 on coilovers will be faster around the track, and can still be pretty fun. But you should really upgrade the rear subframe bushings and do the E93 M3 rear sway bar (with subaru STI kartboy endlinks) while you are installing the rear coilovers.

I also think that 450/550lbs will be too soft for autocross or track.

If you are going to drive aggressively do not skip the M cars, there is different programming that allows an 80% rear wheel drive bias, as well as the great sport seats.
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      08-14-2015, 09:18 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
If you are going to drive aggressively do not skip the M cars, there is different programming that allows an 80% rear wheel drive bias, as well as the great sport seats.
Wait, the M-sport has different drivetrain programming? I thought the only difference was suspension and some trim features. And I know you can get the sport seats with the Sport Line.
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      08-14-2015, 09:49 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improvius View Post
Wait, the M-sport has different drivetrain programming? I thought the only difference was suspension and some trim features. And I know you can get the sport seats with the Sport Line.
I thought only the M-Sports got the Performance Control programming:

Quote:
Opt for the M Sport package and you also get what BMW calls Performance Control. This delivers a 20-to-80 front-to-rear torque split in standard conditions in an attempt to replicate the feel of rear-wheel drive. It helps a bit, but again, the xDrive35i is a little on the overpowered side so it never feels quite like a true rear-driver.
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      08-14-2015, 09:53 AM   #55
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You may be able to enable it via coding...looks like SA 2VG.

I wouldn't sweat it, from what I read, the yaw control aspect, etc. (in addition to being annoying/instrusive when hustling the car) is phased out as speeds rise. Not sure about the torque split...but 40/60 is plenty decent enough. You'll only (perhaps) miss even more rear bias autoxing or tracking, really.
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      08-14-2015, 10:08 AM   #56
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Actually I couldn't found any info on the shocks for B12. Only know Pro-Kit is EIBACH Pro-Kit and Sportline is EIBACH Sportline; shocks could be both B8....?!

Speaking of M Sport not only it come with Performance Control and different Spring/Shocks but the sway bar are larger by 2mm too. I only have Sport line and thinking about getting the M Sport rear sway...


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Yeah, that's what we were assuming. If the B8s weren't for sale separately, it makes sense that the Pro-bit uses B6s.

Link to those details though? Hard to find a description of the B12s that gives any details on the shocks.

Do we think the springs are just the H&Rs?

God damn, would have been cheaper to just wait on a Pro-Kit.

But this is good...another guy seeing how it goes running full-length monotube shocks with mild-drop springs. I think it will work out OK. Let me know what they tell you to do with the rear bump stops when you get your kit.
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      08-14-2015, 10:13 AM   #57
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IMHO, if you're going to take the time to drop the rear subframe down, but in a bigger bar than the MSport. Either an M3 bar, or perhaps more preferably, a big H&R/Hotchkis/etc. Might sway your decision based on how much spring you're going to run as well.

And, of course, swap out those subframe bushings when you have the subframe down as well.
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      08-14-2015, 10:26 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
IMHO, if you're going to take the time to drop the rear subframe down, but in a bigger bar than the MSport. Either an M3 bar, or perhaps more preferably, a big H&R/Hotchkis/etc. Might sway your decision based on how much spring you're going to run as well.

And, of course, swap out those subframe bushings when you have the subframe down as well.
The bigger the better rear bar, and I would leave the stock front. Dials out understeer this way.

Just note that the aftermarket and M3 bars will not fit with stock endlinks (you can install it, but it will clunk as the endlinks keep hitting because they are too long), but subaru kartboy STI endlinks fit.
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      08-14-2015, 10:35 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
You may be able to enable it via coding...looks like SA 2VG.

I wouldn't sweat it, from what I read, the yaw control aspect, etc. (in addition to being annoying/instrusive when hustling the car) is phased out as speeds rise. Not sure about the torque split...but 40/60 is plenty decent enough. You'll only (perhaps) miss even more rear bias autoxing or tracking, really.
So is it always active on M Sports? Or does it only switch on when you put the transmission into sport mode?
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      08-14-2015, 10:50 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improvius View Post
So is it always active on M Sports? Or does it only switch on when you put the transmission into sport mode?
I believe it is always active.

I have also heard that you can enable Performance Control via coding but haven't confirmed it.

What I REALLY wish we could do is code off the e-diff; it is redundant now that I've added a mechanical LSD and cooks your inside brake pad in corners.
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      08-14-2015, 11:23 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I believe it is always active.

I have also heard that you can enable Performance Control via coding but haven't confirmed it.

What I REALLY wish we could do is code off the e-diff; it is redundant now that I've added a mechanical LSD and cooks your inside brake pad in corners.
Does it show up in the VO? I haven't found any coding guide for it. Maybe someone with an x28 M-sport could send me their files so I could do a comparison check...
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      08-14-2015, 11:46 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I believe it is always active.

I have also heard that you can enable Performance Control via coding but haven't confirmed it.

What I REALLY wish we could do is code off the e-diff; it is redundant now that I've added a mechanical LSD and cooks your inside brake pad in corners.
You can't shut the E-diff full off via the TC button like you can in all the other cars? Edit. No, no you can't.

And I'm just about 90% sure you can shut it off via coding.
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      08-14-2015, 11:51 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
You can't shut the E-diff full off via the TC button like you can in all the other cars?

And I'm just about 90% sure you can shut it off via coding.
The e-diff unfortunately does not get shut off with full DSC and DTC off (it doesn't on the 335i and 135i either). I always run with full DSC and DTC off and it doesn't matter as far as the e-diff goes. I have been researching this for a while, spurred on by mysterious power loss on the track. I scanned the DSC module for codes and found one that says, "reduced power output due to brake disc temp too high." It is important to note that there are no actual brake disc temp sensors; this is a calculated value based on speed and brake application (I found this in a BMW technical document).

What is basically happening is that the e-diff (controlled by the DSC module) isn't aware that you have upgraded brakes and pads. When you drive on the track and have some slip angle, the computer continually corner brakes (the e-diff doing its job). This does two things - prematurely wears your inside brake pad and rotor, and slows down the car. The ECU sees the constant corner braking happening and assumes you are overheating the pads, and cuts power.

I have read in several places that you can indeed code off the e-diff (apparently certainly extremely early 335s didn't come with it enabled) but have found nowhere that shows how to do it. One guy claims he knows how but won't share due to "liability issues."

I will pay $100 if someone can show me how, it is costing me that more than that in brake pad wear each event. I know how to code and have a computer set up for it, just can't figure out how to code out the e-diff. Have asked a few other people including Alex at Alpine and nobody seems to know.
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      08-14-2015, 12:10 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
The e-diff unfortunately does not get shut off with full DSC and DTC off (it doesn't on the 335i and 135i either). I always run with full DSC and DTC off and it doesn't matter as far as the e-diff goes. I have been researching this for a while, spurred on by mysterious power loss on the track. I scanned the DSC module for codes and found one that says, "reduced power output due to brake disc temp too high." It is important to note that there are no actual brake disc temp sensors; this is a calculated value based on speed and brake application (I found this in a BMW technical document).

What is basically happening is that the e-diff (controlled by the DSC module) isn't aware that you have upgraded brakes and pads. When you drive on the track and have some slip angle, the computer continually corner brakes (the e-diff doing its job). This does two things - prematurely wears your inside brake pad and rotor, and slows down the car. The ECU sees the constant corner braking happening and assumes you are overheating the pads, and cuts power.

I have read in several places that you can indeed code off the e-diff (apparently certainly extremely early 335s didn't come with it enabled) but have found nowhere that shows how to do it. One guy claims he knows how but won't share due to "liability issues."

I will pay $100 if someone can show me how, it is costing me that more than that in brake pad wear each event. I know how to code and have a computer set up for it, just can't figure out how to code out the e-diff. Have asked a few other people including Alex at Alpine and nobody seems to know.
Yep, sorry, ediff is always on.

I think I can find out the coding steps to deactivate it. Will report back.
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      08-14-2015, 12:37 PM   #65
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I have to pull the XDSC list from the X1, but the 135 DSC module has "DIFF_LOCK".

Thinking set the value to zero and give it a go?
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      08-14-2015, 12:44 PM   #66
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Another thought...but first a question.

Is it true (as most claim), that the ediff is in fact off until you deactivate both DSC and DTC?

If that's true, perhaps another route is to code out DSC and DTC.

Edit, maybe that's not true afterall...

"BMW's Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) system ensures that the vehicle remains stable when taking bends, speeding up or braking on uneven road surfaces or in poor driving conditions. The Automatic Differential Brake (ADB-X) is part of this system. Using sophisticated electronics, it offers the same function as a mechanical differential brake - without any disadvantages arising from weight and loss of efficiency."
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