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      04-15-2013, 01:38 AM   #353
edx1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
True, but the 35i lacks a 2.5th gear - there's an awful lot of difference between second and third, where I feel it loses at least a tenth or two, even with the wide torque range.

The gear range differential feels like (to me, at least):
1--2--------3---4-----5---6
Strange, the gear ratio's on the ZF 6HP biggest gap is really 1st to 2nd... I guess if the X1 starts in 2nd in D the gap from 2nd to 3rd would stand out more as 3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 as 3+ are fairly evenly spaced.

4.71 1st
2.34 2nd
1.52 3rd
1.14 4th
0.87 5th
0.69 6th.

In addition, take a look at this chart and info: ZF 6HP

It appears the ZF 6HP should be more like 1------2----3---4---5---6. The only reason an uneducated person like myself would come up with for it appearing like the biggest gap between gears is 2->3 would be some sort of ecu trait which wouldn't make sense to me.

For the ZF 8HP I had to break it into two graphs as the online tool I found is limited to 6 gears: ZF 8HP 1-6 ZF 8HP 3-8

It's interesting to see the 8HP runs 65mph at about 1700rpm and the 6HP runs 65mph at 2100rpm. The 8HP gear ratios above 4th seem spaced oddly and must be based on probability for driving at various highway or street speeds to optimize mpg?
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      04-15-2013, 10:24 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nospam View Post
Power increase is definitely noticeable when you give it gas. Boost is increased by up to 3 PSI from stock and comes on much quicker (you can even increase to 4 PSI if you have 93 octane gas and you get the USB cable).

When driving conservatively, I have not noticed any change in drive-ability or gas mileage. This is how the car should have come stock, but I'm sure BMW has the EPA and other things to worry about. I will say that the transmission programming in DS mode is not ideal for the tune as at times it will rev higher than necessary before shifting. I generally leave it in D and paddle shift when needed. Most of the time D is just fine as the increased torque pays dividends.

Performance is just barely below a stock N55 35i IMO (I'm coming from a stock N54 335i and I'm happy), but you need to rev a bit higher than you would on the I6 for comparable power. I judge this solely by butt dyno. When passing on the freeway I hit 100 MPH quite quickly (have to get around car pool lane slowpokes in a short interval). 5th gear seems to be the sweet spot when passing on the freeway (was 3rd or 4th on the N54 w/6AT).

I'm averaging ~24MPG combined, same as I did before adding the tune. I can average 32MPG on the highway if I keep it at 65MPH and don't pass, 30 MPG at 75MPH. City driving however I only get about 18.5 MPG. A lot of traffic lights around here.

Thanks again.....you have me sold!
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      04-15-2013, 12:44 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edx1 View Post
Strange, the gear ratio's on the ZF 6HP biggest gap is really 1st to 2nd... I guess if the X1 starts in 2nd in D the gap from 2nd to 3rd would stand out more as 3-4, 4-5, and 5-6 as 3+ are fairly evenly spaced.

4.71 1st
2.34 2nd
1.52 3rd
1.14 4th
0.87 5th
0.69 6th.
That's the direct ratios for each gear - what we experience when shifting gears is the higher order function, i.e. how much they change relative to each other (I almost wrote the differentials of the differentials, but caught myself )

Anyhow, see this plot of the ratios:
Name:  gearratios.png
Views: 2503
Size:  6.5 KB

The biggest discrepancy between the smoothed spline curve and the actual points is between the 2nd and 3rd gear, which I think leads to the feeling that there's a missing gear.
It's how they're spaced, with the emphasis on the high gears. Which certainly makes sense for fuel economy, but a shift (no pun intended) towards closer spacing for the low gears might have chopped off a little on the 0-60 end, and made for a more spirited drive. But then again, I'm no expert either.
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      04-15-2013, 10:59 PM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
Anyhow, see this plot of the ratios:
Attachment 846991
.
I thought that it would be interesting to plot the 8 speed ratios the same way. Note the smoother lower range.
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      04-16-2013, 12:14 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter123 View Post
I thought that it would be interesting to plot the 8 speed ratios the same way. Note the smoother lower range.
Yes, on the 8-speed, you basically have three low gears where the 6-speed has two. Of course, the N55 compensates by having a really good torque range, but it won't feel as smooth.

But getting a small kick in the back, or two, or hearing a little extra growl isn't all bad. It may not be the most efficient way to get to speed, but it feels good

I also notice that if the ratios of 3rd and 6th on the ZF8 had been just a TINY bit higher, the progression would have been pretty much all smooth.

Last edited by Grovsnus; 04-16-2013 at 12:48 AM.
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      04-16-2013, 07:55 AM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
But getting a small kick in the back, or two, or hearing a little extra growl isn't all bad. It may not be the most efficient way to get to speed, but it feels good
As technology advances there will be things about the automobile that will be missed, like the exhaust note of a N/A large block V8 or the jerk of maybe not so perfect a xmission / shift
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      04-16-2013, 01:51 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
As technology advances there will be things about the automobile that will be missed, like the exhaust note of a N/A large block V8 or the jerk of maybe not so perfect a xmission / shift
Maybe the iDrive can be coded to pipe in the faux M5 engine & exhaust noise.
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      04-17-2013, 07:36 AM   #360
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Originally Posted by nospam View Post
Maybe the iDrive can be coded to pipe in the faux M5 engine & exhaust noise.
Now go wash out your mouth with a bottle of Mothers!

The new Golf too has a speaker device placed against the firewall.
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      04-17-2013, 01:26 PM   #361
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I just visited burgertuning.com to check out the JB4 info. For just over $500, is there any reason NOT to do this? and what is/does the USB cable comb do? I also noticed they only list potential HP increases and not TQ increases for just the tune? Sorry if I missed it in this thread, but did anyone do a dyno with the jb4 on a 35i yet to see what the differences are at the wheels? Do you think/know that it will be more than the $2,000 Dinan tune?
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      04-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Chrakaknox View Post
I just visited burgertuning.com to check out the JB4 info. For just over $500, is there any reason NOT to do this?
Your dealer and/or BMW might not honor the warranty and free service on a tuned vehicle.
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      04-17-2013, 09:14 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrakaknox View Post
I just visited burgertuning.com to check out the JB4 info. For just over $500, is there any reason NOT to do this?
Your dealer and/or BMW might not honor the warranty and free service on a tuned vehicle.
So take the 15 mins and return to stock for your warrantee or service needs. Easy
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      04-17-2013, 09:19 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrakaknox View Post
....and what is/does the USB cable comb do?
The USB cable is used for software updates as well as adjusting parameters. Their tunes ship for 91 octane gas. With the USB cable you can up the boost for 93 or even race gas.
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      04-17-2013, 09:42 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness View Post
So take the 15 mins and return to stock for your warrantee or service needs. Easy
Never mind that it's a dishonest thing to do, but that won't help if the drive computer has already thrown a code that shows you've used tuning equipment.
You can delete the codes through the JB4 itself or a on OBD-II hookup, but you have to know what the codes are, and which ones NOT to delete. For the X1 the full code set has, to my knowledge, not been documented in public yet.
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      04-18-2013, 01:02 AM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
Never mind that it's a dishonest thing to do, but that won't help if the drive computer has already thrown a code that shows you've used tuning equipment.
You can delete the codes through the JB4 itself or a on OBD-II hookup, but you have to know what the codes are, and which ones NOT to delete. For the X1 the full code set has, to my knowledge, not been documented in public yet.
Not quite.

You don't pick and choose which codes to delete, you just press clear codes. This clears even shadow codes. I can confirm this with 100% certainty.

Also, the complete N55 code list is well documented in public and I can confirm they match with the N55 in the X1.

All bets are off for the N20.
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      04-18-2013, 05:22 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness View Post
So take the 15 mins and return to stock for your warrantee or service needs. Easy
Never mind that it's a dishonest thing to do, but that won't help if the drive computer has already thrown a code that shows you've used tuning equipment.
You can delete the codes through the JB4 itself or a on OBD-II hookup, but you have to know what the codes are, and which ones NOT to delete. For the X1 the full code set has, to my knowledge, not been documented in public yet.
Dishonest?

/facepalm

What r u even doing in this thread if you've got issues w/ modding? My SA for one knows full well I run a BMS Stage 1, and isn't the least concerned. In fact, he suggested I return to stock when doing updates to avoid any issues to my ECU, just in case.
Take your self-righteous drivel elsewhere.
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      04-18-2013, 07:58 AM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness View Post
Dishonest?

/facepalm

What r u even doing in this thread if you've got issues w/ modding?
How could you possibly read into this that I have problems with modding?
I think it's great to mod cars. I do not think it's great to then expect BMW and the dealer to support the modded car when their warranty and service terms state that they don't.

Anyhow, someone asked what possible downsides there could be to adding a BurgerTuning kit and I answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness View Post
Take your self-righteous drivel elsewhere.
Again, please stop posting personal attacks on public replies. If you (as seems obvious) have an issue with me, take it private - don't let your personal dislike for me get into the posts again. Please, just leave my posts alone, and I'll do the same to yours.

Last edited by Grovsnus; 04-18-2013 at 08:02 AM. Reason: quote formatting
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      04-18-2013, 08:16 AM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Not quite.

You don't pick and choose which codes to delete, you just press clear codes. This clears even shadow codes. I can confirm this with 100% certainty.

Also, the complete N55 code list is well documented in public and I can confirm they match with the N55 in the X1.

All bets are off for the N20.
Granted, the engine codes are most likely those that can be triggered, but that's just a subset of the DME codes for the vehicle. Sure, you're unlikely to get a code thrown for your gas lid or license plate light because of a mod, but how about the performance control, for example? Or "Service Request" code in BMW Assist?

And do you really want to clear all codes, including the ones that are problems? "Miss Mechanic, I have this problem that comes and goes with [...], can you take a look at it?" "Sure - let me check... No, everything looks good from here."

I prefer being honest about it. If I tune, I'll pay for my own services, and won't try to use the warranty on anything that might be affected by the tune. I don't like the idea of other BMW buyers subsidizing problems I caused due to tuning.
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      04-18-2013, 08:37 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
Granted, the engine codes are most likely those that can be triggered, but that's just a subset of the DME codes for the vehicle. Sure, you're unlikely to get a code thrown for your gas lid or license plate light because of a mod, but how about the performance control, for example? Or "Service Request" code in BMW Assist?
Not sure what you're saying here, the JB4 can clear all codes, not just "engine" codes. I've personally done so.

Quote:
And do you really want to clear all codes, including the ones that are problems? "Miss Mechanic, I have this problem that comes and goes with [...], can you take a look at it?" "Sure - let me check... No, everything looks good from here."
In my situation, I simply removed the JB4, drove for a few miles to make the code come back, and then took it in since I knew it wasn't mod related. Worked perfectly.
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      04-18-2013, 12:15 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Not sure what you're saying here, the JB4 can clear all codes, not just "engine" codes. I've personally done so.
Sure - but you won't know what the codes you clear are, without documentation that goes beyond the N55 codes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
In my situation, I simply removed the JB4, drove for a few miles to make the code come back, and then took it in since I knew it wasn't mod related. Worked perfectly.
Yes, that'll work, as long as you can quickly reproduce the problem/code. Thus the "that comes and goes" in my example.

To summarize as answer to the question that was asked:
Potential downsides to installing the BurgerTuning JB4 kit include:
- You may lose warranty / free service. This depends on your dealer and/or whether you are willing to hide your tuning.
- Before service, you should remove the tuning kit. This isn't just for hiding that you've been using one, but because the mechanic is unlikely to know what effect the tuning kit has on the OBD-2 output.
- For the same reason, and/or to hide your tuning, you might want to clear the codes that might have been thrown before taking it in.
- If you clear all codes through the JB4, you also clear those not related to the tuning. If you want the service rep to take a look at them, you need to be able to reproduce the codes.

Looks correct?
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      04-18-2013, 12:18 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
Sure - but you won't know what the codes you clear are, without documentation that goes beyond the N55 codes.
I suppose it's technically possible, but not really in practice since there are no new modules in the X1 that aren't used in other BMW's. I've used INPA to get a complete readout. And 99.9% of codes (even EGS codes and such) are found in the attached document.



Quote:
Yes, that'll work, as long as you can quickly reproduce the problem/code. Thus the "that comes and goes" in my example.

To summarize as answer to the question that was asked:
Potential downsides to installing the BurgerTuning JB4 kit include:
- You may lose warranty / free service. This depends on your dealer and/or whether you are willing to hide your tuning.
- Before service, you should remove the tuning kit. This isn't just for hiding that you've been using one, but because the mechanic is unlikely to know what effect the tuning kit has on the OBD-2 output.
- For the same reason, and/or to hide your tuning, you might want to clear the codes that might have been thrown before taking it in.
- If you clear all codes through the JB4, you also clear those not related to the tuning. If you want the service rep to take a look at them, you need to be able to reproduce the codes.

Looks correct?
Only thing I'd change is that I've never heard of them denying free service. But they certainly can deny warranty claims.
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File Type: pdf N55 Tech Code List.pdf (785.7 KB, 174 views)
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      04-18-2013, 02:41 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nospam View Post
The USB cable is used for software updates as well as adjusting parameters. Their tunes ship for 91 octane gas. With the USB cable you can up the boost for 93 or even race gas.
Ok, thank you, that's makes a lot of sense. I have 93 available here on Long Island NY....
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      04-18-2013, 05:47 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
To summarize as answer to the question that was asked:
Potential downsides to installing the BurgerTuning JB4 kit include:
Also one note in the discussion with paradoxical3. I believe it is only the JB4 that has any code clearing capability. Someone using a Stage 1 (non JB4) would not be able to clear any codes without additional hardware/equipment. Would this be a correct statement ?
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