Horner in trouble at Red Bull

[M5Rick]

The RB21 as it stands is not the biggest problem, the MCL 39 is.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by G30M

My apologies, I didn't get that! I dare day that is very likely too

Ok, this is not a real 'powerstruggle', but a very strange tidbit.
Apparently Yoovidhya now only has 49% of the stakes to his personal name (the same amount as Mateschitz). He only very recently (1 month ago) transferred 2% into a separate trust fund. So this doesn't tell any conclusive story, but doing this after all these decades where the Yoovidhya family had 51% and Mateschitz 49%, it's either a huge coincidence, or it has something to do with making the firing of Horner possible.
Peculiar to say the least
https://fortune.com/2025/06/03/red-b...rust-firm-tcp/

That 2% alone is worth over a billion..

I still wonder if it's 1 major reason that Horner got fired or that it's just a cummulatoin of errors over the last 2-3 years.
If there's 1 main reason, the only one I could think of is Max, as in that behind the scenes he (or Jos, and Max is very loyal to his father) said either Horner goes or I go.
I mean, key people leave all the time at teams (although loosing Newey is a big one, also publicity wise), and bad engine deals or bad engines are also a fairly normal thing (RB and Renault turbo hybrid for example), and sexual complicated lives and team bosses....then don't look at Briatore

It's probably a buildup of problems that aren't good for the team and aren't good for the publicity of the RB mothership.
That said I think it's gonna be a long time now until RB wins something again. It's possible that when Horner gets a position at another team (and he probably will, he was the most experienced and most succesful CEO on the grid) he'll also take some key RB employees with him. So that will be another blow to RBR.

Somehow this is a law in F1, every era comes to an end. Mercedes had a particularly long one with 7 years (and with 2 drivers) but usually these era's are 3-5 years (so RB fits in perfectly with 2 4year era's), and it can take a long time before a new era begins for that team. For RB it took 7 years to beat MERC again, and team Merc themselves havent won for 5 years (this is the fifth) now. And Mclaren had to wait 1,5 decades and who know how long Ferrari has to wait...
So RBR could get the same fate....

If Max isn't part of the deal that Horner leaves, it would be wise for him to bail ship too to team MERC, but I think that's the common opinion with all F1 fans. There's just no progression at RBR.
For Horner it's now the time to get the biggest deal to resolve his contract till '30.

[M5Rick]

What I don't get is how fionagate could proceed to such a degree in UK (and is continuing?) as to add to stuff already to topple a TP. In Italy such things would be shrugged off and laughed out of court so I believe the reds are now the perfect destination for Horner and his pop star wife to get out of odd ball Britain.

[NSXR]

For those of us that don't follow F1 like it's the very air we breathe, what's the likely cause CH got fired? He made it through the affair allegations like Hector, just fumes. By all accounts he's great at what he does, so what would be so bad that a team would want to boot him in the face of such success?

[3798j]

.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by 3798j

.

But he's not designing the car, or driving it.

[3798j]

Originally Posted by NSXR

But he's not designing the car, or driving it.

Of course he isn't. In any sport, head coaches and managers find themselves fired after their teams no longer produce.
Front offices and owners historically make firing moves for reasons not immediately clear.
Here's one of many current views/speculations: http://www.gptours.com/gr_news/up-to...ing-vermeulen/
"Ralf Schumacher thinks Horner’s 20-year-old reign at Red Bull has simply run its course."
“In the end, it really was the case that they were no longer able to attract or retain good people,” he said. “They simply didn’t want to come because of his personality.”

[3798j]

Originally Posted by NSXR

But he's not designing the car, or driving it.

Here's another view...
"Has there been a hidden power shift at Red Bull?"
"The backstory to a power struggle: a Swiss trust acquires 2% of Red Bull just days before Christian Horner is sacked. Are the two incidents linked, or is it just a timely coincidence?"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...bull/10741289/

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Trying to think of someone else on the grid that would have won a race this year in RB21, let alone the two Max has won. Russell, Leclerc, Norris...I doubt it? RB would probably have at least 50 less points in constructors championship standings without Max.

Honestly since Imola last year, RB performance has been on a downward spiral. Max had only one pole after Imola last year, a 16 race stint until the end of 2024 season.

Max's race craft and ruthless driving won him the 2024 championship against the much quicker McLaren.

Easy answer: no one. Beyond that, no one on the grid would have put it on pole either. Beyond even that, no one would be top 10 in the WDC driving the RB21.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Easy answer: no one. Beyond that, no one on the grid would have put it on pole either. Beyond even that, no one would be top 10 in the WDC driving the RB21.

Respectfully I call

LEC and VER have very similar driving styles. Charlie would crash more but I can see him getting a pole or win.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

The RB21 as it stands is not the biggest problem, the MCL 39 is.

OMG (!) A new French idiot..

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Respectfully I call

LEC and VER have very similar driving styles. Charlie would crash more but I can see him getting a pole or win.

I'd give him the best chance. but even in a stronger Ferrari he's had neither.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

I'd give him the best chance. but even in a stronger Ferrari he's had neither.

But a Ferrari they changed to suit hammy also. It's not just his car anymore.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

OMG (!) A new French idiot..

Fantastic! Happy ex-Ferrari Racing Director of Performance reminds me of Monty, it's a good feel for me and I'll put my RB hat on again, I'm sure he'll gel with MAX and Wache and they'll get on like a house on fire. That's lovely

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Respectfully I call

LEC and VER have very similar driving styles. Charlie would crash more but I can see him getting a pole or win.

Yeah. I mean, stop with the Max nut sucking. No one could handle that car is a clown statement. 🤡🤡🤡🤡. Cole Trickle would smoke Max in his own whip

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Fantastic! Happy ex-Ferrari Racing Director of Performance reminds me of Monty, it's a good feel for me and I'll put my RB hat on again, I'm sure he'll gel with MAX and Wache and they'll get on like a house on fire. That's lovely

I already can hear it : Casse pas la tête . Ne vous inquiétez pas ...

The French , Ohhhhhh Boy . OMG (!) What a disaster

[3798j]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

But a Ferrari they changed to suit hammy also. It's not just his car anymore.

The latest article on Ferrari woes...power steering?

"A new floor debuted recently, and new rear suspension is slated to race for the first time at Spa, but an exasperated Charles Leclerc hinted at a more fundamental problem at the end of the British GP weekend."
“It’s not a balance issue, it’s not a grip issue,” he said. “I don’t want to go into details, but it’s just something very strange that we have to combat in the car."
“Especially at high speed, it makes it even more difficult. I hope we can solve it. I can’t go into details, I’m sorry.”

http://www.gptours.com/gr_news/ferra...ersee-vasseur/

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I already can hear it : Casse pas la tête . Ne vous inquiétez pas ...

The French , Ohhhhhh Boy . OMG (!) What a disaster

Originally Posted by 3798j

The latest article on Ferrari woes...power steering?

"A new floor debuted recently, and new rear suspension is slated to race for the first time at Spa, but an exasperated Charles Leclerc hinted at a more fundamental problem at the end of the British GP weekend."
“It’s not a balance issue, it’s not a grip issue,” he said. “I don’t want to go into details, but it’s just something very strange that we have to combat in the car."
“Especially at high speed, it makes it even more difficult. I hope we can solve it. I can’t go into details, I’m sorry.”

http://www.gptours.com/gr_news/ferra...ersee-vasseur/

And what if Mekies turns RB around. That would be a serious palm to face slap for Ferrari.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I already can hear it : Casse pas la tête . Ne vous inquiétez pas ...

The French , Ohhhhhh Boy . OMG (!) What a disaster

I'm sure..it'll be alright on the night. Feel the new force in RBR already, Horner was maybe sounding like a BMW Service Agent too much

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

And what if Mekies turns RB around. That would be a serious palm to face slap for Ferrari.

Charlie has described a problem especially at high speed and it appears his car is being messed with too much, they've had more new floors than I've had hot dinners.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Here's another view...
"Has there been a hidden power shift at Red Bull?"
"The backstory to a power struggle: a Swiss trust acquires 2% of Red Bull just days before Christian Horner is sacked. Are the two incidents linked, or is it just a timely coincidence?"

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...bull/10741289/

Interesting that my post about that exact thing predates the motorsport article by a day. Is motorsport.com reading this forum?

[G30M]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Interesting that my post about that exact thing predates the motorsport article by a day. Is motorsport.com reading this forum?

a lot of other mainstream news inc ESPN would post something that was said here within 24 hrs. so i'm sure the internet is widely read. the source may or may not be Bimmerpost but it's possible, as this is quite a known site.