Horner in trouble at Red Bull

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Good riddance to bad rubbish...

I don't know him but everyone makes mistakes and has skeletons in their closet. When you are rich and powerful they get dug up more often.

His wife seems to have forgiven whatever was there if anything

[3798j]

RBR's "brain drain" didn't happen overnight but Horner's reluctance to dole out deserved praise and his sleazy demeanor had to be a hastening factor.
In '22, team leader in aerodynamics, Dan Fallows leaves (joining Aston Martin).
In '23, chief designer/chief engineering officer, Rob Marshall leaves (joining McLaren).
In '24, sporting director, Jonathan Wheatley leaves to become CEO of Audi F1.
In '25, chief technical officer, Adrian Newey leaves for Aston Martin.
Head of race strategy, Will Courtenay, has announced he's leaving in '26.
Meanwhile, RBR goes from winning the WCC in '23, falling to third in '24, and is currently 4th in the '25 season

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Maybe an international lawyer needs to chime in. Is a non-compete clause still valid if fired? I guess the details are in the contract

Highly doubtful. Non-competes are usually when you voluntarily leave a company. UK is pretty restrictive on non-competes compared to the US, and even in the US, many states have pretty tight restrictions on them.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by 3798j

RBR's "brain drain" didn't happen overnight but Horner's reluctance to dole out deserved praise and his sleazy demeanor had to be a hastening factor.
In '22, team leader in aerodynamics, Dan Fallows leaves (joining Aston Martin).
In '23, chief designer/chief engineering officer, Rob Marshall leaves (joining McLaren).
In '24, sporting director, Jonathan Wheatley leaves to become CEO of Audi F1.
In '25, chief technical officer, Adrian Newey leaves for Aston Martin.
Head of race strategy, Will Courtenay, has announced he's leaving in '26.
Meanwhile, RBR goes from winning the WCC in '23, falling to third in '24, and is currently 4th in the '25 season

Good points!!! but all those departures seem to be promotions or more money.

Ferrari doesn't have that much excellent talent to loose. He was ripe for getting $hit canned but could be great for a rebuild

[3798j]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Good points!!! but all those departures seem to be promotions or more money.

Ferrari doesn't have that much excellent talent to loose. He was ripe for getting $hit canned but could be great for a rebuild

Not being able to hold onto key employees most view as a weakness in management skills. More than one of these guys commented on dissatisfaction with the internal direction of the team..."The handwriting was on the wall".

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Not being able to hold onto key employees most view as a weakness in management skills. More than one of these guys commented on dissatisfaction with the internal direction of the team..."The handwriting was on the wall".

Fair enough, I'd still take him over FerrariFred

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by 3798j

RBR's "brain drain" didn't happen overnight but Horner's reluctance to dole out deserved praise and his sleazy demeanor had to be a hastening factor.
In '22, team leader in aerodynamics, Dan Fallows leaves (joining Aston Martin).
In '23, chief designer/chief engineering officer, Rob Marshall leaves (joining McLaren).
In '24, sporting director, Jonathan Wheatley leaves to become CEO of Audi F1.
In '25, chief technical officer, Adrian Newey leaves for Aston Martin.
Head of race strategy, Will Courtenay, has announced he's leaving in '26.
Meanwhile, RBR goes from winning the WCC in '23, falling to third in '24, and is currently 4th in the '25 season

This is all a regular occurrence in F1 - when you're the best, everyone is going to try and poach you and/or the team. Mercedes went through the exact same thing but you don't necessarily see people calling for heads of key management or personnel.

But if you're saying this is strongly related to the harassment claims, then this came a year too late - this should have been done after the final report was completed.

Everything said or rumoured about Red Bull within the last year or so probably contributed to this but it's very weird timing.

We can continue to assume and hypothesize, we're probably never going to know the reason behind this and the timing of this. Whatever Max decides to do will probably give us a bit more insight but we will never know the real reason.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

We can continue to assume and hypothesize, we're probably never going to know the reason behind this and the timing of this. Whatever Max decides to do will probably give us a bit more insight but we will never know the real reason.

It has to be play to keep Max. Show of good faith for Max and his management, that RB are willing to take big steps to turn performance around. Without Max in that seat they are basically a mid-pack team. Their performance at times has been equal to Racing Bulls. RB and Ford really want Max in that seat.

[GuidoK]

Wow I didn't expect Horner to get fired.
I mean, he's I think the most succesfull teamboss in history.
I wonder what the real reason is.
I mean, a quarrel with Jos can't be the reason as pretty much everyone has a quarrel with Jos some time in their life 😅
And that the car now isn't that competative... how many years was the gap between Seb and Max for a wdc title? These things are normal, every reign comes to an end and it can take a few years to get the tech up to par again...
So I think there are some other processes at work behind the scenes.
Maybe the whole Hornergate gave the RB brand too much bad publicity (in marketing value this can add up in the billions with a global brand like RB), or Horner sees a possibility to go to Ferrari and this is alk carfully orchestrated...

...or Max gave an ultimatum ( for whatever reason) like 'Horner goes or I go..."

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I don't know him but everyone makes mistakes and has skeletons in their closet. When you are rich and powerful they get dug up more often.

His wife seems to have forgiven whatever was there if anything

On Sunday evening , Jos had a fiery conversation with Horner .

The $Million question : Did Red Bull fire Horner to keep MAX at Red Bull ?

[TheBingoBalls]

Red Bull has pretty much hit the reset button - so the conversation should now be switched to who are they going to attract and lead Red Bull into 2026+ with the new regulations and how is that going to play into Max's future? This is likely going to be at least a 2-3 year reset unless they magically engineer a car to come flying right out the gate.

[3798j]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

This is all a regular occurrence in F1 - when you're the best, everyone is going to try and poach you and/or the team. Mercedes went through the exact same thing but you don't necessarily see people calling for heads of key management or personnel.

But if you're saying this is strongly related to the harassment claims, then this came a year too late - this should have been done after the final report was completed.

Everything said or rumoured about Red Bull within the last year or so probably contributed to this but it's very weird timing.

We can continue to assume and hypothesize, we're probably never going to know the reason behind this and the timing of this. Whatever Max decides to do will probably give us a bit more insight but we will never know the real reason.

With MB, Ineous, and Toto Wolff each owning 33% of the team, Wolff's position should be viewed as reasonably safe. MB's downfall was sticking too long with the bad no-sidepod design...couldn't happen to a more deserving team, they have yet to recover.
This year Max has rightly blamed the car, the team, the pit stops and the strategy. While you can't just fire the team, that leaves their leader as the one to be let go. Now, if only the bigot Marko would disappear...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Wow I didn't expect Horner to get fired.
I mean, he's I think the most succesfull teamboss in history.
I wonder what the real reason is.
I mean, a quarrel with Jos can't be the reason as pretty much everyone has a quarrel with Jos some time in their life ��
And that the car now isn't that competative... how many years was the gap between Seb and Max for a wdc title? These things are normal, every reign comes to an end and it can take a few years to get the tech up to par again...
So I think there are some other processes at work behind the scenes.
Maybe the whole Hornergate gave the RB brand too much bad publicity (in marketing value this can add up in the billions with a global brand like RB), or Horner sees a possibility to go to Ferrari and this is alk carfully orchestrated...

...or Max gave an ultimatum ( for whatever reason) like 'Horner goes or I go..."

MAX's dad finally got to him I think and that's what he said, it's CH or me and to the 51% man it was no contest.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by 3798j

With MB, Ineous, and Toto Wolff each owning 33% of the team, Wolff's position should be viewed as reasonably safe. MB's downfall was sticking too long with the bad no-sidepod design...couldn't happen to a more deserving team, they have yet to recover.
This year Max has rightly blamed the car, the team, the pit stops and the strategy. While you can't just fire the team, that leaves their leader as the one to be let go. Now, if only the bigot Marko would disappear...

Marko is part of the mutiny. he won't be fired. he could retire.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Just imagine that he gets Lawson'd: team principal of Racing Bulls.

he won't be. RB is part of RBR. RBR just accomplished a 8 month mutiny against him. no way they want to ever smell him from a mile away.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

No, some strange things happened lately: exceptional absence of GP Lambiase ("personal reasons") + exceptional absence of Fred Vasseur ("personal reasons") + Russell leaking that Mercedes and Verstappen have talks.

i don't see them as exceptional. Toto also took a week off in Imola. it's ok to take a break no?

Russell needed to stir some sheet because he wanted some certainty in his own negotiations. his boss gave him a timeline of "summer break". Max gets offered a contract by Mercedes. the orange livery in the British GP was the final straw - RB fires Horner to beg Max to stay.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by Artemis

"Ferrari ‘want Red Bull F1 chief Christian Horner to join and become Lewis Hamilton’s boss’
The Sun - 27 May 2025
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/35128...ewis-hamilton/

Does Fred Vasseur need to worry ? Red Bull Racing gave no reasons for Horner's termination with immediate effect earlier today.

Attachment 3773320

i don't think Fred is capable of worry!

would be cool to see Horner at Ferrari lol.

2 thumbs up from me!

[G30M]

Smith, Red Bull’s Group Director of Communications, and Hughes, the Chief Marketing Officer, are believed to be closely aligned with Horner. Both were stood down shortly after Horner’s farewell visit to the Milton Keynes campus. the mutiny is complete.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

I don't know him but everyone makes mistakes and has skeletons in their closet. When you are rich and powerful they get dug up more often.

His wife seems to have forgiven whatever was there if anything

Yah right, wife’s (and husband’s) don’t just forget getting cheated on.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by minn19

Yah right, wife’s (and husband’s) don’t just forget getting cheated on.

No they don't and shouldn't!!! But, if he cheated, Geri did and it's none of my business.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Red Bull has pretty much hit the reset button - so the conversation should now be switched to who are they going to attract and lead Red Bull into 2026+ with the new regulations and how is that going to play into Max's future? This is likely going to be at least a 2-3 year reset unless they magically engineer a car to come flying right out the gate.

And where Horner will land....Alpine

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by 3798j

RBR's "brain drain" didn't happen overnight but Horner's reluctance to dole out deserved praise and his sleazy demeanor had to be a hastening factor.
In '22, team leader in aerodynamics, Dan Fallows leaves (joining Aston Martin).
In '23, chief designer/chief engineering officer, Rob Marshall leaves (joining McLaren).
In '24, sporting director, Jonathan Wheatley leaves to become CEO of Audi F1.
In '25, chief technical officer, Adrian Newey leaves for Aston Martin.
Head of race strategy, Will Courtenay, has announced he's leaving in '26.
Meanwhile, RBR goes from winning the WCC in '23, falling to third in '24, and is currently 4th in the '25 season

But this is how things go, at any team.
I mean at Mercedes Elliott, Cowell and Serra left. And Toto is still there (as part owner, who knows what wouldve happened if he was just on the paylist....). He even lost Hammy.
Stuff happens, most engineers leave because they can get more money, a better position or more power elsewhere. They make a long strong career at one team, and if they've won numerous WCC's or WDC's, new oppertunities are for the picking.

I wonder if there's a power struggle at RB too. I mean, Horner was always in the Yoovidhya camp and Mintzlaff (Mateschitz jr. camp) wanted to get rid of him as soon as Mateschitz Sr. died. From what I've understood the firing of Horner came from the austrian side. What happened between Yoovidhya and team Mintzlaff/Mateschitz jr?