|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
09-04-2019, 12:43 PM | #45 | |
Second Lieutenant
136
Rep 242
Posts |
Quote:
The cars went up significantly in price, the cars are worth less on trade in, and financing is more expensive (the money factor). So across the board you are going to see higher lease prices. In order to 'game' the advertising, they will post 'cheaper' leases like the $299 special but only on unrealistic mileage (and that's before any taxes or fees with bloated down payments). You can either pay for a higher mileage allotment, or take the risk in mileage overage fees. Whichever works best for you. I think you'll notice that buying a CPO or a non CPO but under warranty will give you a lower 'monthly payment' than leasing with 0 down especially if you have good credit. Of course it's cyclical and in a year or so it could change again. Seth |
|
Appreciate
1
530iDriver1709.00 |
09-04-2019, 01:19 PM | #46 |
Colonel
2645
Rep 2,456
Posts
Drives: 2021 M2C
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Claremont, CA
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-05-2019, 12:41 PM | #47 |
Addict
130
Rep 345
Posts |
I think it's more to do with the cyclical nature of the auto industry. New vehicles sales are declining while used vehicle sales increase. BMW probably needs to make more $'s/car to make up for the decrease in volume.
__________________
-ANALOG IMPORTS-
Instagram @AnalogImports |
Appreciate
0
|
09-09-2019, 11:13 AM | #48 |
THUNDER UP!
265
Rep 292
Posts |
Yeah, the leases aren't as good as they used to be, but it shouldn't be too shocking. The average cost of a new car has skyrocketed across all manufacturers thus lease prices inevitably have to increase as well.
Last I checked, the average new car price was something around $38,xxx. The average new BMW price was something around $56,xxx. Average cost is at an all time high and will most likely continue to increase for some time. Used car market is going to continue to explode as it already has been. The average car age on the road is like 12 years old which only continues to get older. Quality and reliability has improved throughout all manufacturers so more cars are lasting longer and more people are driving these cars longer. Factor that with the new car average price hitting all time highs (many people/families cannot afford these cars, but that's another topic) so people look to CPO and pre-owned and you have an exploding used car market and a stagnate or decline in new car sale volume.
__________________
G30 l Alpine White l M Sport Package l Executive Tier l Icon Adaptive Full LED Headlights l Mocha Nappa Leather l Multi-Contour Seats l Drivers Assistance Package l Drivers Assistance Plus Package l Dynamic Handling Package l Parking Assistance Package l Bowers & Wilkins Diamond Surround Sound System l M Sport Brakes l Apple Carplay Last edited by CLABRO; 09-09-2019 at 11:20 AM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-09-2019, 01:45 PM | #49 | |
Banned
4500
Rep 10,473
Posts |
Quote:
Less new cars in the pipeline means fewer cars to enter the used market. They go hand in hand, not in inverse. You are also assuming USA has not hit peak car ownership which rest of World hit over past 24 months or so and it seems USA hit in 2018. Thus not all current cars will be replaced as Uber and Lyft have taken hold, becoming more mainstream. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-11-2019, 08:56 PM | #50 | ||
Brigadier General
2155
Rep 3,041
Posts
Drives: 2020 BMW 530xe
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Farmington, NY
|
Quote:
The problem for German car manufacturers is both this end and the other end I talk about below (used market) prioritize reliability and operating costs over almost all else. So the overall market may not collapse, but the winners and losers may shift mightily. Quote:
These warranties will expand over time and put their feet to the fire to ensure their cars are actually able to last a while otherwise they'll lose sales in the secondary market and primary market (as the resale values staying low are a direct drag on leasing rates). You couple that with the uprise of advanced luxury and technology in mainstream car brands and the sideways swipe coming from Tesla who is doing a great job of appealing to the tech hungry nature of the younger market. The used market being the primary market for car sales profitability is a serious headwind for German car makers. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 06:12 AM | #51 | |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 12:59 PM | #52 | ||
Banned
4500
Rep 10,473
Posts |
Quote:
Logic says they both will fall. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 01:45 PM | #53 | |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
Quote:
All I know is that all my older cars are appreciating
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 01:47 PM | #54 | ||
Banned
4500
Rep 10,473
Posts |
Quote:
Cars from the past 20 years are not appreciating. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 02:12 PM | #55 |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
I mean, you're free to think whatever you want, but...
Haggery says they are: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/pr...is-bmw-m3-now/ Classic and sports car says they are: https://www.classicandsportscar.com/...ics-to-buy-now Doug says they are: They are selling for increasingly more on sites like bring a trailer: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2004-bmw-m3-36/ Or gooding and company: https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/2002-bmw-m5/
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 02:23 PM | #56 | |
Banned
4500
Rep 10,473
Posts |
Quote:
And I serious doubt you have less than 500 miles on your cars and they are "of museum quality" as some of those links refer to. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 02:29 PM | #57 |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
They already have started going up-- at all mileages. Next time Haggerty opens up their price trends (currently behind a payway, but they open them up from time to time, give them a peak).
Those two cars I linked are certainly the top of the market, but top top of the market has been rising (as has all of it). A year ago, anyone paying $90,000 for an e46 M3 (with 16,000 miles on it, btw) or $176,000 for an e39 M5 was unheard of
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 02:37 PM | #58 | |
Banned
4500
Rep 10,473
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-12-2019, 04:48 PM | #59 |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
... what? My cars are exactly those models, and later years of a given chassis are worth more.
E.g. That M3 was an 04. I have an 04 and an 05 M3. E46 M3 was made from 01-06. I really have no idea what point you’re trying to make. |
Appreciate
0
|
09-13-2019, 08:38 AM | #60 | |
Colonel
1709
Rep 2,540
Posts |
Quote:
Apologies but you have to be very stupid to pay $90K for an E46 M3, I do not care if it has 1 mile on the odometer and was preserved in a hermetically closed room. Nothing special about them and thousands were made. Another less than reliable early 2000s E Chassis BMW. Crackpipe as they say..
__________________
2017 BMW 530i, Sport Line,Alpine White, Canberra Beige Sensatec, 19 inch V-Spoke wheels, basic plain Jane build with no options whatsoever..... "Less is more".
Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness.... |
|
Appreciate
1
FuriouslyFast858.50 |
09-13-2019, 08:39 AM | #61 |
Banned
859
Rep 407
Posts
Drives: Miss Daisy
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: PA
|
When I was car shopping last summer, the best M4 lease deals I could find were $800+ per month. Hard pass
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-13-2019, 08:51 AM | #62 | |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-13-2019, 09:03 AM | #63 | ||
Colonel
1709
Rep 2,540
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2017 BMW 530i, Sport Line,Alpine White, Canberra Beige Sensatec, 19 inch V-Spoke wheels, basic plain Jane build with no options whatsoever..... "Less is more".
Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness.... |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-13-2019, 09:25 AM | #64 |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
Those were pretty extreme examples I linked. But, market value for all but the worst, most destroyed cars has been steadily going up for the last 2-3 years on both e46 M3s and e39 M5s.
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
Appreciate
0
|
09-13-2019, 10:11 AM | #65 | |
Colonel
1709
Rep 2,540
Posts |
Quote:
Prices in these cars are fueled by speculation and pipe dream premises based on the "Good old days" or when BMW "Cared about the act of driving". Some folks want to live forever locked in the year 2004, and that is fine, but the world, the automotive industry and BMW has moved on. Truth is that if anyone feels so strongly about NA 6 cyl engines, manual transmissions and artificially heavy hydraulic power steering, they don't need to spend $90K to get into an old school pre-2010 BMW. Nothing special about those cars made in the thousands and not with the best reliability (E46 sub frames anyone?). But circling back to my point: if an older BMW is your thing enjoy it but always for the right reasons.
__________________
2017 BMW 530i, Sport Line,Alpine White, Canberra Beige Sensatec, 19 inch V-Spoke wheels, basic plain Jane build with no options whatsoever..... "Less is more".
Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness.... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-13-2019, 10:57 AM | #66 | |
Emperor
1614
Rep 2,764
Posts |
Quote:
I've been driving an e46 M3 for 16 years now, including putting around 20,000 track miles on one of them. So, I like to think I'm in it "for the right reasons". I don't expect my cars to be an appreciating asset. In fact, it's impossible for them to be, since I have zero intent of selling. But, they are appreciating-- and they're appreciating in spite of the, as you point out, large supply. Implying that there's a large number of people that do, indeed, miss the good old days when BMW made cars that were good to drive.
__________________
2005 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Wagon, 2001 M5 Sedan, 2008 M5 6MT Sedan, 2012 128i M sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|