Biker Gang and Land Rover Incident in NYC

[johanness]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

This just in:

Turns out the undercover cop was the one who smashed in the rear window.

GEEEEZ. What's next. I hope he gets what's coming to him & then some...

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I'm of the opinion that they were off duty rather than undercover. If they were under cover, what is the reasoning to come out of cover after the fact? There isn't any.

For that reason, my opinion is that they were just cop bikers in plain clothes rather than undercover cops.

I agreee with this. because this biker's event was well known prior to the Sunday when the video was recorded, many bikers from all walks of life were on the roads that day.

So basically, if your profession just happens to be in the field of law enforcement, and you decided to go out on the bike and link up with other bikers that you don't really have a history with, now you are an "off Duty" officer chilling on your day off, opposed to and "undercover officer" on the clock.

Worng place, wrong time. Guilty by association. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing, ETC, ETC

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Devious21

I'd agree with you except I know by "profiling" you mean "racial profiling".

I think it's definitely possible that Zimmerman profiled him as a punk by the way he was dressed, his demeanor/attitude, and what he was doing. I do that all the time. Everyone does. It's how the human brain works.

Likewise, the Biker's may have seen Range Rover driver as snoby rich guy driving a cage. Being a biker, it's easy to stereotype other drivers on the road as ignorant/dumb/unaware. Someone makes a mistake and it's easy to go "they're another one of those idiots who never pays attention". It's easy to treat those different than you less than equal.

But if you're saying that George did what he did because Trayvon was Black or that the bikers did what they did because Lien was Asian, I have no reason to agree with you. Without some kind of justification, that sounds very racist to imply.

I agree with you, it's not possible to accuse someone else of racism without being racist yourself.

add: no one knows what either of them were thinking, but it is plausible (although the opposite could also be true) that Z thought it was more easily justifiable blasting a black person, and that the biker's would probably not have picked on a black/hispanic/white person in the range - but WHO KNOWS -we can only speculate

(add2: I haven't been to the states in 10yrs so I may be out of touch..)

[PINeely]

To say that racism was a factor in this confrontation is completely laughable. Let's get back on topic and quit grasping at straws.

Also I saw the damage to the Range Rover bumper incurred by Mieses/his bike and started laughing my ass off. Jay would make a nice speed bump when he gets out of the hospital (and hopefully jail).

[utahm5]

Originally Posted by blackboxing

I doubt they would care about him being on the phone...given that the bikers were doing all kinds of illegal shit.

From the video, it seems like they were just randomly messing with cars (merging too closely, lane splitting, etc.), but the SUV honked a few times and provoked one of the bikers to brake check him.

FWIW

I'd think that break checking a 6,000lb car with a 700lb motorcycle would question ones IQ?

In NY the bikers knew he had no gun so all occupants are fair game with no risk to the bikers given the difference in numbers.

Had this happened to me in Utah I would have done the same thing the Range Rover driver did except the first guy through the window would have received a .45 ACP between the eyes*.

That begs the question if the under cover cop would have then turned into a greater criminal and drawn his weapon. As it is he is a coward at the very least!

Of course in UT I'd think this type of RR incident would be very rare as most likely 30-40% of the cars carry weapons via their UT "must issue" concealed weapon permit.

Not that RR does not occur in UT, it does; however 99.99% end with just the bird. Unless your a genuine moron you have to be wondering in the back of your head if the other guy is carrying.

RR is never worth you or a family member dying over, unless, as in this case, a group of thugs are about to do harm to your family then all bets are off.

*please no anti gun comments. If you were the driver of the Range Rover would you not liked to have a weapon? As ALL of your 911 calls were way to late.

[utahm5]

Originally Posted by PINeely

To say that racism was a factor in this confrontation is completely laughable. Let's get back on topic and quit grasping at straws.

Also I saw the damage to the Range Rover bumper incurred by Mieses/his bike and started laughing my ass off. Jay would make a nice speed bump when he gets out of the hospital (and hopefully jail).

It's been my experience when someone has no real point they just scream racism!

What an over used bunch of crap. If anyone really thought this was racism Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would have followed the ambulance!

Oh, wait, the driver was Asian! Can't be racist unless your Black. Makes no difference what color/race you are being a dumb thug is just that.

[utahm5]

Originally Posted by Samurai of 2day

I agreee with this. because this biker's event was well known prior to the Sunday when the video was recorded, many bikers from all walks of life were on the roads that day.

So basically, if your profession just happens to be in the field of law enforcement, and you decided to go out on the bike and link up with other bikers that you don't really have a history with, now you are an "off Duty" officer chilling on your day off, opposed to and "undercover officer" on the clock.

Worng place, wrong time. Guilty by association. Evil triumphs when good men do nothing, ETC, ETC

I'd be willing to be that a police officer in NY is a police officer 24/7! I know for a fact they are in UT.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by PINeely

To say that racism was a factor in this confrontation is completely laughable. Let's get back on topic and quit grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by utahm5

It's been my experience when someone has no real point they just scream racism!

What an over used bunch of crap. If anyone really thought this was racism Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would have followed the ambulance!

Oh, wait, the driver was Asian! Can't be racist unless your Black. Makes no difference what color/race you are being a dumb thug is just that.

Gentlemen, I respectfully disagree.
Unless you have been a minority anywhere you really don't have the experience of racism to be able to say that it isn't.

add: While Jackson/Sharpton call everything that is even only 1% racist, racist, I get that it is tiring and unhelpful to turn everything in a debate about racism. So fine I'll shut up, ok.

[Sara]

Originally Posted by grimlock

I agree with you, it's not possible to accuse someone else of racism without being racist yourself.

add: no one knows what either of them were thinking, but it is plausible (although the opposite could also be true) that Z thought it was more easily justifiable blasting a black person, and that the biker's would probably not have picked on a black/hispanic/white person in the range - but WHO KNOWS -we can only speculate

(add2: I haven't been to the states in 10yrs so I may be out of touch..)

you aint missing much

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

You mean the ASIAN couple who was surrounded, and viciously attacked with their child in the car?

See the thing you guys are missing is that his video has gone viral, and the people who attacked the RR with the most viciousness, we all know who they are now.

Black biker gang members have ZERO chance of getting away with this crime in the U.S without doing prison time. Zero. That's how society is, and these guys should have understood that before trying to be macho.

Is anybody else catching this??

When you continue to single out an ethnic group, one can only imply that other ethnic groups are exempt.

In this case, I would imply that Whites, Asians, Hispanics etc... have a greater than ZERO chance of getting away with the same crime in the U.S.?

Some people refer to this as racism.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Sara504

you aint missing much

If I'm moving there it'll be CA for sure.
(There are enough of us there -last racist comment)

[kevinbahnz]

Like i said before If the RR driver was white , the tables would be turned, no doubt and race will be a factor.

[kscarrol]

The "undercover"/offduty officer has now been arrested for his roll in the attack...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/08/us/bik...deo/index.html

[Devious21]

Originally Posted by grimlock

I agree with you, it's not possible to accuse someone else of racism without being racist yourself.

I promise you, I'm not disagreeing with you over and over simply to be contrary. We really just don't see eye to eye on this.

I absolutely believe you can accuse someone of being racist without being racist yourself. The problem is, people accuse people of being racist anytime someone of a different color is involved regardless of the actual circumstances.

We don't have a good reason to believe he was suspicious of him because he was black. It could have been because he looked young, looked angry, looked poor, etc. There could have been any number of types of profiling going on in his head for him to think that Trayvon might have been the type of person who might get into trouble(and to be fair, he was right). You're projecting your bias onto him and calling him a racist.

And of course it's not just you. Media was quick to feed this hunger many people have to play into this game of "who's a racist". They know people will care. People burn down entire cities over racism. It's one of the easiest (read laziest) ways to get people to care about what you're saying.

Originally Posted by grimlock

add: no one knows what either of them were thinking, but it is plausible (although the opposite could also be true) that Z thought it was more easily justifiable blasting a black person, and that the biker's would probably not have picked on a black/hispanic/white person in the range - but WHO KNOWS -we can only speculate

(add2: I haven't been to the states in 10yrs so I may be out of touch..)

I guarantee you, that if you ever find yourself in the dark with a large man on top of you pounding your skull into the pavement, nearly to the brink of unconsciousness, and you're making the decision to defend yourself, the last thing you'll be concerned about is what color the guy about to kill you is.

That kind of reminds me of 'My Cousin Vinnie' with the deer being concerned with what pants the hunter is wearing.

[Nate4641]

[edirtaynine]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Again, cops are not obligated to protect citizens. They are allowed to use their own discretion when it comes to getting involved in protecting citizens.

It should be noted that the phrase "Protect and Serve" came about from the LAPD holding a contest for the public to come up with a slogan for the LA police academy. Nice.......

I wouldn't be surprised if all the bikers got off with a slap on the wrist and Lien was ordered to pay Mieses medial bills. I'd be infuriated of course, but not surprised. This is the messed up society we live in.

A hand full of these bikers receiving 5 to 10 year jail sentences will go a LONG, LONG way to preventing this from happening again in NYC. But the judicial system is messed up and for some reason worries about the guilty more than the victim.

agreed.

Originally Posted by Devious21

I'd agree with you except I know by "profiling" you mean "racial profiling".

I think it's definitely possible that Zimmerman profiled him as a punk by the way he was dressed, his demeanor/attitude, and what he was doing. I do that all the time. Everyone does. It's how the human brain works.

Likewise, the Biker's may have seen Range Rover driver as snoby rich guy driving a cage. Being a biker, it's easy to stereotype other drivers on the road as ignorant/dumb/unaware. Someone makes a mistake and it's easy to go "they're another one of those idiots who never pays attention". It's easy to treat those different than you less than equal.

But if you're saying that George did what he did because Trayvon was Black or that the bikers did what they did because Lien was Asian, I have no reason to agree with you. Without some kind of justification, that sounds very racist to imply.

agreed.

i think this case has nothing to do with the race card. majority of the fools on the bikes look to be black but that doesnt matter. even if, IF, the entire group of bikers were to be black, i still think it wouldnt make this a "racist attack"

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by utahm5

I'd be willing to be that a police officer in NY is a police officer 24/7! I know for a fact they are in UT.

That is not a safe bet. many police officers see their job as well, just a job... so if they are not on the clock, they won't feel they are obligated to intervene.

Not all enforcers or authority figures treat their profession as a lifestyle, but to those that do live up to those values no matter what, those few get my respect.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Only possible excuse I can imagine is that he was deep undercover, and spent months building their trust and infiltrating his way into the biker gang to break up whatever stuff they were doing besides terrorizing drivers (ie: trafficking drugs, guns, etc.) Then he could say he had to appear to join in to not blow his cover (which is now blown anyway).

I think you've watched New Jack City and Deep Cover one too many times.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

The "undercover"/offduty officer has now been arrested for his roll in the attack...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/08/us/bik...deo/index.html

Like I said this will be getting real interesting. You know Bloomberg was pissed about this and you know he order this cops arrest. Bloomberg does not want people thinking his police allow these kinds of thing to happen.

Lien's will have a nice lawsuit on there hands with the city that is for sure. As someone pointed police are not really off duty most all still have a requirement to uphold the law and enforce the law even when not in uniform. Some places even required the police to always have their weapon with them.

[utahm5]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

Gloria Allred is the herpes of the U.S. legal system.

Amen!

[utahm5]

Originally Posted by Samurai of 2day

That is not a safe bet. many police officers see their job as well, just a job... so if they are not on the clock, they won't feel they are obligated to intervene.

Not all enforcers or authority figures treat their profession as a lifestyle, but to those that do live up to those values no matter what, those few get my respect.

[Litos]

Originally Posted by Maestro

As someone pointed police are not really off duty most all still have a requirement to uphold the law and enforce the law even when not in uniform.

no they don't.

Originally Posted by Maestro

Some places even required the police to always have their weapon with them.

i'd be surprised if you can show me any back-up documentation to prove this.