What's that? You wanna chit chat? Welcome to the whore thread!

[Axius]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Creek is just outside of Gatlinburg. Waterfall is about 6 miles from Deals Gap.

GPS took me through Deals Gap once, which it never has before on the usual route, was a pretty neat stretch of road.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

When i had my E92 with a MT, a lot of times i wished it had the DCT then when i got a DCT e92 M3 i started missing having the third pedal.

At this juncture, If i have a choice it's DCT.

Hell, i'll take an auto 128i over a MT Golf GTI and i've owned a few of them.

This.

I understand the emotional lamentation regarding the loss of the 3 pedal driving experience. I imagine that it is similar to the emotion around the loss of the hand-crank to start a car or even the horse and buggy.

My M6 has the much maligned SMG and I wouldn't change it for the world. I like to know that the car I'm driving is still a car but still want to take advantage of the technology that allows a 65 millisecond shift. I'm actually a bit peeved that the i8 has an automatic transmission...a well programed automatic transmission but still automatic, nonetheless. I imagine that it has to do with the drivetrain synchronization between the electric motors and the ICE but I'm still not a fan.

As far as DCT goes, I believe that it is the way forward for and car with sporting pretensions. The shifts are lightening fast and can be programmed to be as fierce or smooth as the character of the car demands. And on the track...let's be serious. Losing a minimum of .125 seconds each time one shifts has only one consequence: ONE LOSES. ONE LOSES BY MILES.

I am putting on my flame-suit in order to deal with the, 'Purists'. Oh...I'll be in the paddock as you finish unlapping yourself!!

Cheers-mk

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

This.

I understand the emotional lamentation regarding the loss of the 3 pedal driving experience. I imagine that it is similar to the emotion around the loss of the hand-crank to start a car or even the horse and buggy.

My M6 has the much maligned SMG and I wouldn't change it for the world. I like to know that the car I'm driving is still a car but still want to take advantage of the technology that allows a 65 millisecond shift. I'm actually a bit peeved that the i8 has an automatic transmission...a well programed automatic transmission but still automatic, nonetheless. I imagine that it has to do with the drivetrain synchronization between the electric motors and the ICE but I'm still not a fan.

As far as DCT goes, I believe that it is the way forward for and car with sporting pretensions. The shifts are lightening fast and can be programmed to be as fierce or smooth as the character of the car demands. And on the track...let's be serious. Losing a minimum of .125 seconds each time you shift has only one consequence: YOU LOSE. YOU LOSE BY MILES.

I am putting on my flame-suit in order to deal with the, 'Purists'. Oh...I'll be in the paddock as you finish unlapping yourself!!

Cheers-mk

Driving a sports car is about having fun. For me, the DCT isn't fun, on the track or street. Call me a pedalphile, I embrace it.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

It actually has a low CG for an SUV and the 8 speed is far from a slush box. Shifts are surprising crisp. And it has over 500hp which allows it to clock the same 0-60 time as an E46 M3. For a very comfortable place to be while commuting, it's not to shabby in my book.

I'd still take a momentum car like a 128i over it if handling is on top of my list but if i'm going for status symbol definitely the 2.5 ton Range Rover.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by C5driver

What I meant was...why have a manual trans in a rental pool. Makes no sense.

As for the tranny...depends on the car. IMO, a 6MT in a big GT is the same as a 6MT in a 750. Ridiculous.

Ferrari announced late last year that there will be no more manuals in their lineup and like it or not, for whatever reason you may think of, the future belongs to DCT because for a sports car or a sports coupe or a big fast powerful GT like the M6, it's faster, more precise, and more flexible with gearing (more gears with shorter ratios).

Yes...cars like the GT4 will be around for the purists and niche marketers.

That's odd because Ferrari stopped offering the MT 4 or 5 years ago and they just announced this a couple of months ago.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Driving a sports car is about having fun. For me, the DCT isn't fun, on the track or street. Call me a pedalphile, I embrace it.

The fun I have is exploiting as much of the cars' potential as my meager talent (and the law) will allow me on the track or the street. As in the case of the S85-SMG combination, the engine and the transmission are designed as a single unit. The manual that was thrown in for the purists was not designed for the engine and it created a compromised solution that was a was an insult to the car.

Similarly, the addition of an automatic mode on the SMG was also ill-conceived. That is the singular mistake that created the myth that the SMG is a poorly contrived instrument when the opposite is actually true. Once the driver learns to shift it properly, the SMG with reward you with amazing performance. If the driver simply yanks on the paddle's, the negative feedback is shocking. Like driving a 3 pedal, it is art and mechanical competence from the driver. A little more on the art side for the SMG because you have to learn to manipulate the robotic clutch with accelerator input.

When it is done properly, a real symbiosis exists between the car and the driver. If the driver just yanks on the paddles, it is a nausea inducing, neck snapping nightmare...just like poor 3 pedal driving.

Cheers-mk

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

I'd still take a momentum car like a 128i over it if handling is on top of my list but if i'm going for status symbol definitely the 2.5 ton Range Rover.

Some people just don't get it.

Driving is about sensation. Different cars and aspects of cars create sensations. I'll go ahead and assume you've never driven the L494 RRS Supercharged and give you a run down. It delivers over 2.5 tons of driving sensation. It's not as fast as the E92 M3 in a straight line, nor will it lap as quickly. But it sure as hell feels like it is. The throttle response is great, the seats are comfy and supportive with plenty of side bolster. The steering wheel has a great feel and looks attractive. The gauge cluster is clean and looks good. The torque is intoxicating and it plants you well into the seat back. The exhaust note is great. The sound system is fabulous. Driving around turns quickly delivers a sensation of being in the E92 M3, albeit at lower speeds. When sitting in traffic it's incredibly quiet and comfortable. Has averaged over 18mph for the life of it so far. If i need to grass pass someone, no problem. No parking spots, i'll make my own. Need to ford a stream, can do.

But your probably right, getting a car based on how much momentum it carries through a turn is likely the most important metric to consider. And never mind my mistake of thinking that NO BMW owner EVER bought it for perceived status.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

The fun I have is exploiting as much of the cars' potential as my meager talent (and the law) will allow me on the track or the street. As in the case of the S85-SMG combination, the engine and the transmission are designed as a single unit. The manual that was thrown in for the purists was not designed for the engine and it created a compromised solution that was a was an insult to the car.

Similarly, the addition of an automatic mode on the SMG was also ill-conceived. That is the singular mistake that created the myth that the SMG is a poorly contrived instrument when the opposite is actually true. Once the driver learns to shift it properly, the SMG with reward you with amazing performance. If the driver simply yanks on the paddle's, the negative feedback is shocking. Like driving a 3 pedal, it is art and mechanical competence from the driver. A little more on the art side for the SMG because you have to learn to manipulate the robotic clutch with accelerator input.

When it is done properly, a real symbiosis exists between the car and the driver. If the driver just yanks on the paddles, it is a nausea inducing, neck snapping nightmare...just like poor 3 pedal driving.

Cheers-mk

Exactly my point above. Everyone loves different sensations about driving and that's what makes it so great. You can be in one situation and get joy from one metric of the vehicle. 3 miles down the road, get joy from another. That's what makes the whole of a car feel like a soulmate to some and a mother-in-law to another.

I personally think the SMG and DCT variants are wonderful inventions and are certainly superior to most in terms of quickness and consistency. I just have more fun doing the work. It's like golfing, for me, the whole round was enjoyable but that one good shot keeps brining you back. In the same way, that perfect rev-match downshift makes me strive for it again and again. I wish i could golf as well as i can rev-match.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Exactly my point above. Everyone loves different sensations about driving and that's what makes it so great. You can be in one situation and get joy from one metric of the vehicle. 3 miles down the road, get joy from another. That's what makes the whole of a car feel like a soulmate to some and a mother-in-law to another.

I personally think the SMG and DCT variants are wonderful inventions and are certainly superior to most in terms of quickness and consistency. I just have more fun doing the work. It's like golfing, for me, the whole round was enjoyable but that one good shot keeps brining you back. In the same way, that perfect rev-match downshift makes me strive for it again and again. I wish i could golf as well as i can rev-match.

+1

I'll take a 128i even with an auto over a luxury suv when it comes to driving fun. I love its size, it's a tossable car, great autocross car.

Ps I'm not a stoplight or straight line racer so your 500hp or 1,000hp behemoth will never strike my fancy.

Sorry!

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

That's odd because Ferrari stopped offering the MT 4 or 5 years ago and they just announced this a couple of months ago.

The news conference was re. future planning. I believed they mentioned V6's as well.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by C5driver

Ferrari announced late last year that there will be no more manuals in their lineup and like it or not, for whatever reason you may think of...

That's strange because they're implying that they're still offering the MT up until late last year. They stopped offering the MT 4 or 5 years ago.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Axius

I just think it's kind of crummy that they are literally taking away the option to have a 6MT as a whole. Unless purists in higher end cars that opt for 6MT has drastically come down, it would be nice to have the choice of either or.

No disagreement here...anything in the 1-4 range needs a manual option IMO.

[RJ_]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

+1

I'll take a 128i even with an auto over a luxury suv when it comes to driving fun. I love its size, it's a tossable car, great autocross car.

Ps I'm not a stoplight or straight line racer so your 500hp or 1,000hp behemoth will never strike my fancy.

Sorry!

Why do you insist on mixing contexts of this comparison? Is it just an opportunity to throw stones that you can't turn down?

Nobody asked about how well an automatic SUV handles like a sports car. That's as insightful as me saying the 128i is worthless because it couldn't climb over the snowbank that got plowed in front of my driveway.

[UncleWede]

^ Winter tires, brotato

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

^ Winter tires, brotato

Chains, broteinshake.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Chains, broteinshake.

Cali, brofessor, so don't take my word for it. Ask Jake, from State Farm

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by RJ_

Why do you insist on mixing contexts of this comparison? Is it just an opportunity to throw stones that you can't turn down?

Nobody asked about how well an automatic SUV handles like a sports car. That's as insightful as me saying the 128i is worthless because it couldn't climb over the snowbank that got plowed in front of my driveway.

I said when it comes to driving fun, a driver's car.

[RJ_]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

^ Winter tires, brotato

Says the Californian. Enjoy your new front bumper, brochacho.

[Axius]

Actually, the 128 is a worthless poor mans car.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

+1

I'll take a 128i even with an auto over a luxury suv when it comes to driving fun. I love its size, it's a tossable car, great autocross car.

Ps I'm not a stoplight or straight line racer so your 500hp or 1,000hp behemoth will never strike my fancy.

Sorry!

Hey...there are plenty of 500+hp cars that can turn and brake hard. See below

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by V1.47fan

+1

I'll take a 128i even with an auto over a luxury suv when it comes to driving fun. I love its size, it's a tossable car, great autocross car.

Ps I'm not a stoplight or straight line racer so your 500hp or 1,000hp behemoth will never strike my fancy.

Sorry!

Yes, because we AutoX daily, in traffic on the way to work.

I've posted this before somewhere in here, i think. But last summer i was in NC in the RRS doing some hiking. We went down this auto trail which turned out to be a 1 way paved road that lead to the previously pictured waterfall. When leaving the waterfall the 1 way road was jam packed with people going 2mph and it was a loop with 7miles to go before getting to an outlet. There was only one other option and that was down a road that had a sign at the beginning of it that read; "High clearance 4x4 vehicles only". That's the route we took and there were 6 stream crossings, plenty of ups and downs, rocks to climb over and muddy sections to navigate. To my surprise, that dirt 4x4 only road was one of the 4 roads that are off of the 117 turn 11 mile stretch of road that is Deals Gap (Tail of the Dragon) and it comes out at about mile 10. So i had 10 miles of hard switchbacks, dipping banked turns, short straights and plenty of cars & bikes buzzing around. I dropped the suspension down, put the tranny in manual mode and got to work.

I'm sure the 4 or 5 light weight, tossable cars were pissed when i pulled out in front of them. They seemed eager to try and pass me while my passenger secured the cooler and other lose luggage in the back seat. But it likely didn't take them long to realized that like most, they underestimated the road holding capabilities of the RRS as well as the straight line speed it generates. Within a mile they weren't in my mirrors anymore. At the end of the 10 miles there is a boat ramp where some drivers stop for a rest. I pulled over there to get some pics of the fog on the river. As i was walking back to the vehicle after snapping 10 or so pics, that group of light weight, tossable cars finally made it down and were able to pass the slow, lumbering, top heavy, luxury SUV.

I've been down Deals Gap multiple times in an E46M3 and on a RC-51. This most recent time in the RRS was by far and away the most enjoyable run down that stretch of road. Especially when getting to school some ignorant "sports" car drivers.

[V1.47fan]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Hey...there are plenty of 500+hp cars that can turn and brake hard. See below

I said 500hp or 1,000hp behemoth, not 500hp cars. Lol