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      03-21-2013, 02:15 PM   #23
Grovsnus
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Originally Posted by nospam View Post
I feel that the Acura RDX is the best "value" in the class...I'd be surprised if CR concludes differently.
I'd agree, at least if wanting more than the base model. With Acura RDX, you get a lot included by default that BMW, Audi, VW and Subaru are going to nickel, dime and dollar you for until the price has gone up thousands of dollars.
However, if you don't want any extras and don't feel they give any extra value to you, the others may be just as good buys.
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      03-21-2013, 02:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
I'd agree, at least if wanting more than the base model. With Acura RDX, you get a lot included by default that BMW, Audi, VW and Subaru are going to nickel, dime and dollar you for until the price has gone up thousands of dollars.
However, if you don't want any extras and don't feel they give any extra value to you, the others may be just as good buys.
Yeah, but with options on the RDX it's an all-or-nothing affair. There is exactly one package option. Want HID's (low beams only)? Then you'd better be OK with dropping $3,700 on the Tech Package. You can't even get height adjustment on the front passenger seat at any price. And don't get me started on Acura's decision to ditch the SH-AWD in favor of the CR-V's rudimentary AWD system. They can claim it was done in the name of fuel efficiency, but it sure looks like a way to boost profits to me. Value is a relative term. All else equal, if the $40k RDX AWD Tech was wearing a Honda CR-V badge, would it still be perceived as a good value?
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      03-21-2013, 03:40 PM   #25
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I didn't buy an RDX...I'm just saying it is the best value by CR's standards.
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      03-21-2013, 04:56 PM   #26
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I don't think the reviewer is biased. The shifter is counterintuitive. I love the iDrive but it takes some getting used to. The business radio without iDrive is simply pitiful.
But the point being those are BMW wide, not some fault the X1 has some exclusivity to. "The X1 sucks because it uses BMW shifter. Damn BMW for using their own equipment on the X1"

Well then go review a 35i - haha
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      03-21-2013, 05:30 PM   #27
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As a side note, it has much less torque steer than the Audis or even an STI, I was crazy about getting an xDrive car but have been pleasantly surprised at how neutral it feels and how little intrusion the system has on normal driving or gas mileage.
Ofcourse, being a rear wheel biased car there is no torque steer.
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      03-21-2013, 08:06 PM   #28
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In other words, you have never had a car without power steering.
No, you're wrong. I've had plenty of cars prior to that without powered anything starting off with a '72 Ford Escort. I can't speak for your E84 but I can assure you, mine has ludicrously heavy steering.
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      03-21-2013, 08:16 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Naambezet
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
As a side note, it has much less torque steer than the Audis or even an STI, I was crazy about getting an xDrive car but have been pleasantly surprised at how neutral it feels and how little intrusion the system has on normal driving or gas mileage.
Ofcourse, being a rear wheel biased car there is no torque steer.
Really? You think that a constant 40% bias to the front tires won't result in torque steer? It's still there, but not terrible.
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      03-21-2013, 10:00 PM   #30
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But the point being those are BMW wide, not some fault the X1 has some exclusivity to. "The X1 sucks because it uses BMW shifter. Damn BMW for using their own equipment on the X1"
The pull to shift up is not BMW exclusive either (Saab, Mazda, newer Fords, and pretty much every race car from before the paddle shifter era), and I fail to see how some people see it as counter-intuitive.

- If you brake, inertia helps push your hand forward, into lower gear.
- If you accelerate, inertia helps pull your hand backwards, into higher gear.
- For most manual gear shifters, pulling straight down will, when possible, shift up, and pushing straight up will, when possible, shift down.

What, exactly, is intuitive about the opposite?
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      03-21-2013, 10:29 PM   #31
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My previous vehicle, an Infiniti EX35, had the opposite shift directions. I tried several times to get in the habit of shifting manually, but it just seemed so unnatural I gave up. Pull to upshift, push to downshift is so much better. I shift manually all the time now. Of course I also have paddle shifters. But I still need to hit the console shifter when shifting in the middle of a turn (it's hard to find the correct paddle when the wheel is turned).
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      03-21-2013, 11:48 PM   #32
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Pull to upshift, push to downshift is so much better.
+1

Also, on the 8sp shifter pushing forward for reverse is not exactly intuitive either. We are used to it now but my wife had a little trouble at first.
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      03-22-2013, 07:13 AM   #33
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I really don't get it ... Sure there is some comparison to do in term of price and options but really ... How many BMW enthusiast have compared a 3 series to an acura TSX or a X1 to a Honda CRV fully loaded ?????

When I bought my X1, I was "comparing" with a 328i xdrive touring not a CRV or a RAV4 ... Enthousiast don't care about "best value" for the class. If we bought a BMW it's for driving dynamics, sport feeling, acceleration, cornering and yeah ... Look !!!

So please, stop comparing BMW with Acura or other brand not named Audi, Mercedes or Infiniti. Price for price those are the only other brand which can compare with BMW.

Stop bringing the "value" factor cause it's a nonsense. BMW's are pricey cars. They will never win any "Best value for the price" category period. You like it ? Then you don't mind the premium price. Sure you can cut here and there in the option list to get some value but if your an enthousiast you will never make the sacrifice of a lazy steering and gutless acceleration for some more cargo space or addittional options ...

This is a nonsense to me. Consumer report don't understand the passion of car enthusiast. Damn it, If all was a "best value" deal, we would only see Hyundai's and Kia's on the road those last 3 years. They have cars under 20 000 $ with heating seats ( rear too ) and all bells and whistles normally paid with extra pkg ... But again, enthusiast don't give a damn about that. They wan't cars that will make them feel special.

And so, I would keep my small X1 xDrive 28i over any Acura RDX ...
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      03-22-2013, 07:43 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Spinynorman View Post
But I still need to hit the console shifter when shifting in the middle of a turn (it's hard to find the correct paddle when the wheel is turned).
There are two distinct camps there too - some who want paddles to be attached to the steering wheel, and some who wants them on the steering column. Both for that exact reason
I like them on the column, but for a different reason - it makes it easier to replace the wheel without losing functionality.

Then there's the BMW system with push-pull paddles where the left and right paddles work the same. The idea is good, as it works the same as the stick, but human fingers aren't designed to do the push operation with the same ease as your entire hand is. I prefer different functions for left and right.
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      03-22-2013, 08:07 AM   #35
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So please, stop comparing BMW with Acura or other brand not named Audi, Mercedes or Infiniti.
Huh? Why should Infiniti be included, but not Acura?
Infiniti is exactly like Acura - it's a luxury branding for a Japanese lower cost manufacturer.

Honda -> Acura
Nissan/Datsun -> Infiniti
Scion -> Toyota -> Lexus
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      03-22-2013, 09:03 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
Huh? Why should Infiniti be included, but not Acura?
Infiniti is exactly like Acura - it's a luxury branding for a Japanese lower cost manufacturer.

Honda -> Acura
Nissan/Datsun -> Infiniti
Scion -> Toyota -> Lexus
Concur, if I had to ignore one, it would be Infiniti and their course, old engines. I also find the argument that Acura is just a dressed up Honda pretty funny when he's also extolling Audi as a premium brand, when all of their platforms are shared with VW (or Lamborghini).
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      03-22-2013, 09:16 AM   #37
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Concur, if I had to ignore one, it would be Infiniti and their course, old engines. I also find the argument that Acura is just a dressed up Honda pretty funny when he's also extolling Audi as a premium brand, when all of their platforms are shared with VW (or Lamborghini).
Not all Audis are based on VW platforms. And how will you defend the Countryman-based next gen X1 without sounding hypocritical? One could argue that a VW is a far better base on which to build than a Mini. And then there's BMW's tie-up with Toyota. Better hope BMW does the bulk of the chassis engineering in that relationship.
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      03-22-2013, 09:21 AM   #38
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Not all Audis are based on VW platforms. And how will you defend the Countryman-based next gen X1 without sounding hypocritical? One could argue that a VW is a far better base on which to build than a Mini. And then there's BMW's tie-up with Toyota. Better hope BMW does the bulk of the chassis engineering in that relationship.
I didn't say it was a bad thing, I just said it's silly to dismiss Acura and in the same breath say that Audi is a step above.

I won't defend the next X1, there's a reason we own this one. But to be fair, we wouldn't own the X1 if BMW would just import the M135i.

I don't mind chassis sharing, I'm looking forward to the next Miata/Alfa mashup and the BRZ is brilliant, I'm still debating buying one; it almost certainly wouldn't exist if it was up to just Subaru or Toyota.
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      03-22-2013, 11:04 AM   #39
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I have included Infinity because of the G35 / G37 model which is known to be a serious rival to the 3 series in term of driving dynamics.

Other than that, you are absolutly right.

In my mind, only Audi's and Mercedes's ( Cadillac too !) are real competitor to BMW.

Have a nice day !
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      03-22-2013, 12:36 PM   #40
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I have included Infinity because of the G35 / G37 model which is known to be a serious rival to the 3 series in term of driving dynamics.
The G35 is really just a re-badged Nissan Skyline for the US market, so if you include Infiniti for that reason, you include Nissan too.

That's up to you, of course, but I prefer to think of the BMW X1s competitors as slightly different.
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      03-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #41
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I'm pretty sure the Nissan GT-R is the US version of the Skyline and the G series is far from it.

I think the Infiniti EX is in the same class as the X1 despite needing an update. Might be the closest of anything to the X1 in terms of driving dynamics. Not that I would ever buy one.
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      03-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #42
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The pull to shift up is not BMW exclusive either (Saab, Mazda, newer Fords, and pretty much every race car from before the paddle shifter era), and I fail to see how some people see it as counter-intuitive...What, exactly, is intuitive about the opposite?
Funny, it actually took BMW a little while to realize this too!

When they first offered the steptronic it was setup as the opposite. My 2001 E46 was push to upshift; I hated it. The next model year, they switched it to the current configuration.

Luckily, the parts were all compatible, so I was able to change mine around with 2002 E46 parts.
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      03-26-2013, 07:58 AM   #43
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Please don't use those three letters here.
I'm really curious now...why not? That's a standard abbreviation for "forward", used in texting, etc.

Vince.

Last edited by vbbuilt; 03-26-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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      03-26-2013, 08:46 AM   #44
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I'm really curious now...why not? That's a standard abbreviation for "forward", used in texting, etc.
In a car forum context, it stands for Front Wheel Drive.
And BMW is traditionally rear wheel drive biased, but is slowly changing to the chagrin of enthusiasts who prefer less understeer and no rear lift during acceleration.
The next X1 might be FWD based, which is great for soccer moms, but not so nice for those who prefer sporty and RWD-bias.
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