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      10-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #45
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Ugh, Alpina is nothing like M GmbH. Nothing wrong with their cars, but more weight, more luxury and silly prices does not appeal to me.
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      10-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Bill B. View Post
Great point. I think the spirited discussion in this thread has proven that BMW has done a fantastic job of diluting the M line, or at the very least confusing all but the most knowledgeable BMW fans.
Can't really argue with that one! This is the new face of a marketing-driven company. And they are doing well at it.
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      10-23-2012, 03:52 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Ugh, Alpina is nothing like M GmbH. Nothing wrong with their cars, but more weight, more luxury and silly prices does not appeal to me.
Actually Alpinas are in Europe approx. the same price than M models, even cheaper some times and far more exclusive.
On the other hand Alpina does not want to make "track cars" B3 GT3 apart, they want to make very fast, comfortable road cars, and mostly they do better than M cars in this matter.
And you can not get an F11 M5, but you can get a B5S Touring for example.
My family owned many Alpinas (I owned one myself) and these cars are just perfectly built and very fast on the road.
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      10-23-2012, 04:00 PM   #48
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I know who Alpina is, I lived in Frankfurt and saw them frequently. They fluff up the cars, add their silly colors all over the place and generally don't do much, if anything to brakes, suspension, the lack of an LSD, etc. They've been even lazier than the M guys since turbos came out and they tend to just up the boost a little and call it a day. The Alpina Z8 was a hot mess and the recent B3's have been a full bucket of weak sauce. Nope, not impressed with Alpina.

I agree that they fill the fringe markets that BMW doesn't, like a semi fast F11, but that doesn't make them cool.

But after this rant, I think the OP needs an Alpina badge more than an M badge.
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      10-23-2012, 06:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
But after this rant, I think the OP needs an Alpina badge more than an M badge.
Why not both?

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      10-23-2012, 06:43 PM   #50
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I own three Alpina's, all from the 70's and they are the most impressive Bmw's built. They have always been ahead of the time in technology and performance. The poster above is so far off base with his description of Alpina's it's laughable but that's another argument in itself.
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      10-24-2012, 02:02 AM   #51
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I totally agree.
Funny colors? Alpina blue is one of the most beautiful colors ever put on a BMW,the B5S is "semi fast" (530hp, 725nm, 317km/h)- yeah right...as said they want to built the perfect fast road going BMW, not track cars, I think that is the point you don't understand.
They also put much effort in tuning the suspension.
I admit that they have put less work on the engines than before, especially on the 3 series, but they still go very well.
If you don't trust me - have a look at the road tests from german magazines.
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      10-24-2012, 02:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Generally this is true, but the M sport also has an M suspension, M-specific DTC and stability control programming that route more power to the rear wheels, M-specific rims with pirelli P-zeros, etc. The difference between the M sport X1 35i and a theoretical X1 M is virtually nothing. Maybe bigger brakes?
I own both a 1M and an X1 M sport package and I can assure you that while I can believe the x1 M sport package gives better handling and more sporty feel than without it (and its a very sweet handling car in that spec from my experience driving it over all kinds of roads in Europe), the 1M is on a completely different level altogether in terms of handling! Yes you can tune an N55 to 400 hp and give an M car a run for its money on a 1/4 mile, but on a road track or a twisty road it's going to be a different story.
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      10-24-2012, 03:13 AM   #53
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And I do agree with you that the M package on the x1 puts the M logo all over the place (I haven't counted how many but maybe even more than on my 1M). And the M DTC in the X1 M package is nothing like the MDM mode in the 1M, I suspect that just like the branding it calling it 'M' has more to do with marketing than anything else. Sure some M engineers may have tweaked the software settings better than stock but I doubt they invested the $ to develop a bespoke DTC system just for that package (and its not like the x1 has a proper mechanical LSD either).

That M badge sells because of the reputation of the M cars, BMW knows it and they are milking it with those 'M packages'.
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      10-24-2012, 06:28 AM   #54
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Good God this thread is giving me headaches. Can't believe we needed 3 pages of bickering over this topic...X1 35i with an (optional) M-Sport package is...simply not a god damn M car.
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      10-24-2012, 07:10 AM   #55
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Ok to break up the bickering, here is a picture of my 1971 Alpina E9 B2-S. 250 HP, 5spd close ratio gear box, adjustable sway bars, disc brakes all the way around 16" three piece magnesium racing wheels. Try to find something comparable in 1971. You have to look to Ferrari and Lambroghini. Yeah Alpina wasnt ahead of the times.
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      10-24-2012, 07:31 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnm View Post
And I do agree with you that the M package on the x1 puts the M logo all over the place (I haven't counted how many but maybe even more than on my 1M). And the M DTC in the X1 M package is nothing like the MDM mode in the 1M, I suspect that just like the branding it calling it 'M' has more to do with marketing than anything else. Sure some M engineers may have tweaked the software settings better than stock but I doubt they invested the $ to develop a bespoke DTC system just for that package (and its not like the x1 has a proper mechanical LSD either).

That M badge sells because of the reputation of the M cars, BMW knows it and they are milking it with those 'M packages'.
The first M car was a M535i. A 535i. Then they moved up into what we now know as the "real" M cars. Then you have M-Tech cars, which for the most part are cosmetic changes to the cars (body kits, motorsport cloth, etc)

This is what I believe the current non-M M cars are. M-tech cars. However like jmn said its easier to market the cars that way.

Alpina is the same way, they used to produce pretty neat cars (more performance orientated) but now they've moved onto better things.

At the end of the day; it's your car. Do what you want with it. The forums are a place where you have a vast amount of opinions and no one is correct about them.
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      10-24-2012, 07:43 AM   #57
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Actually the first cars developed by Motorsport was the 2002 turbo and the CSL Batmobile in 1974. Not badged an M car but notice the motorsport stripes.
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      10-24-2012, 09:49 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djminkin View Post
Actually the first cars developed by Motorsport was the 2002 turbo and the CSL Batmobile in 1974. Not badged an M car but notice the motorsport stripes.
Yes that's correct as well.

So is that your 02 Turbo then?
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      10-24-2012, 10:01 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
Yes that's correct as well.

So is that your 02 Turbo then?
My former turbo. I sold it about a year ago. I now have three Alpina's, E21, E3, E9.
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      10-24-2012, 11:08 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djminkin View Post
I own three Alpina's, all from the 70's and they are the most impressive Bmw's built. They have always been ahead of the time in technology and performance. The poster above is so far off base with his description of Alpina's it's laughable but that's another argument in itself.
I didn't say their 70's cars are weak, in fact I've put quite a few miles on a friend's E21 Alpina. I do think all of their recent offerings are nothing special though, say anything from the E46 generation forward.

Beautiful 2002 and E9 by the way.
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      10-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #61
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Those old Alpinas and that 2002 turbo are very nice looking!
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      10-24-2012, 11:49 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djminkin View Post
Ok to break up the bickering, here is a picture of my 1971 Alpina E9 B2-S. 250 HP, 5spd close ratio gear box, adjustable sway bars, disc brakes all the way around 16" three piece magnesium racing wheels. Try to find something comparable in 1971. You have to look to Ferrari and Lambroghini. Yeah Alpina wasnt ahead of the times.
Very, Very, Nice I hope to own an E9 one day
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      10-24-2012, 11:53 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Actually the first cars developed by Motorsport was the 2002 turbo and the CSL Batmobile in 1974. Not badged an M car but notice the motorsport stripes.
Love your 2002 Turbo as well

I know this is going a bit off topic> But wouldn't you consider the 1M closer to the 2002 Turbo in concept? Flame suit on
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      10-24-2012, 11:58 PM   #64
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Back on Topic "OP" this car has an Msport package but looks completely silly with an ///M5 badge don't you think
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      10-25-2012, 04:20 AM   #65
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They could at least have put it in the right place and straight! *lol*
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      10-25-2012, 08:21 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Love your 2002 Turbo as well

I know this is going a bit off topic> But wouldn't you consider the 1M closer to the 2002 Turbo in concept? Flame suit on
The turbo was a fantastic car for BMW but it came with a lot of controversy. The stories behind it are kind of funny. Too much of a gas guzzling performer for the times and pressure from the German government made BMW stop production. The reverse script on the front spoiler was too much of a distraction for drivers in front of the car that they made BMW stop installing them.
Its an interesting ride, the boost really kicks in pulls the car hard. Very difficult car to keep tuned and only a few people know how to work on them to this day.
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