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      10-02-2012, 03:26 PM   #1
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Any 6MT news?

I've been out of the X1 loop for some time now, but I remember at NAIAS, BMW stated that, with appropriate demand, they would consider bringing the 6sp manual transmission paired with the N55 to North America.

Any updates on this front? Rumors? I need to pull the trigger on a new vehicle of the X1's dimensions fairly soon, but I'd hate for it to be an auto.
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      10-02-2012, 03:55 PM   #2
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Not going to happen. Plus the 8SPD is fantastic. I doubt you'll be unhappy.
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      10-02-2012, 03:57 PM   #3
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With the utmost respect, I can't see it happening anytime soon, at least in the US anyway. It's been available here for a couple of months so if there are any significant changes it probably would not be until next model year at the earliest.
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      10-02-2012, 04:05 PM   #4
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Not going to happen. Plus the 8SPD is fantastic. I doubt you'll be unhappy.
No offense, but as a manual driver, the 8s is a great automatic, but about the worst manual replacement I've driven. It's shifting all of the time and frequently seems to be in the wrong gear. It's impressive when driven with anger, or when driven like you really meant to buy a Prius, but it's nothing like a manual.

I've always had a manual car and plan on keeping it that way, even with a few knee surgeries behind me (right knee, I'm hosed either way). I'd look else where if you really want a manual car. I've dropped the F30 from my list of potential cars because it just feels too big. It's really a shame that BMW isn't further along with the F2x 1 series sedan and has no interest in bringing the F20 M135i over here.
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      10-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #5
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No offense, but as a manual driver, the 8s is a great automatic, but about the worst manual replacement I've driven. It's shifting all of the time and frequently seems to be in the wrong gear. It's impressive when driven with anger, or when driven like you really meant to buy a Prius, but it's nothing like a manual.

I've always had a manual car and plan on keeping it that way, even with a few knee surgeries behind me (right knee, I'm hosed either way). I'd look else where if you really want a manual car. I've dropped the F30 from my list of potential cars because it just feels too big. It's really a shame that BMW isn't further along with the F2x 1 series sedan and has no interest in bringing the F20 M135i over here.
How about when driven in the manual (auto) mode...? You can keep it in the gear that you choose. Although I am not a fan of the that type of "manual" shifting myself and usually leave it in full auto.... Maybe you're the same
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      10-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #6
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How about when driven in the manual (auto) mode...? You can keep it in the gear that you choose. Although I am not a fan of the that type of "manual" shifting myself and usually leave it in full auto.... Maybe you're the same
My wife is a slow learner, or doesn't believe me when I talk about the various benefits of a manual. So her cars have all been automatics. I've tried driving them in manual mode, but find that it really doesn't replace the amusement of a real manual and only serves to remind me that I'm not really driving a manual.

The 8s cars I've driven in manual mode (X1 28i, F30 328i and 335i and a friend's A6) just feel odd, the spacing between gears is really small and efficiency they have over manuals starts to disappear very quickly if you let them rev over 2k rpm, which just seems better suited to diesels. A friend has a 7s manual 991 and it's similarly weird, the gear box is drive by wire and always feels odd and I find myself using 2, 4 and 6 for nearly all driving.

I know I'm a curmudgeon, but I still prefer a 5s manual to 6s except the very rare case where 6 is more than just a huge overdrive.
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      10-02-2012, 05:20 PM   #7
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My wife is a slow learner, or doesn't believe me when I talk about the various benefits of a manual. So her cars have all been automatics. I've tried driving them in manual mode, but find that it really doesn't replace the amusement of a real manual and only serves to remind me that I'm not really driving a manual.

The 8s cars I've driven in manual mode (X1 28i, F30 328i and 335i and a friend's A6) just feel odd, the spacing between gears is really small and efficiency they have over manuals starts to disappear very quickly if you let them rev over 2k rpm, which just seems better suited to diesels. A friend has a 7s manual 991 and it's similarly weird, the gear box is drive by wire and always feels odd and I find myself using 2, 4 and 6 for nearly all driving.

I know I'm a curmudgeon, but I still prefer a 5s manual to 6s except the very rare case where 6 is more than just a huge overdrive.
You make perfect sense to me, I am no fan of the auto manuals. My wife's car is a G37 with a 7-spd auto and I just leave it in full auto mode virtually every time I drive it. Cannot get into shifting without a clutch....
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      10-03-2012, 07:50 AM   #8
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You make perfect sense to me, I am no fan of the auto manuals. My wife's car is a G37 with a 7-spd auto and I just leave it in full auto mode virtually every time I drive it. Cannot get into shifting without a clutch....
While I agree with both of you; I have to say welcome to the future. Manuals are going to go bye bye.
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      10-03-2012, 08:50 AM   #9
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While I agree with both of you; I have to say welcome to the future. Manuals are going to go bye bye.
Hey, future, get f'ed!
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      10-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
My wife is a slow learner, or doesn't believe me when I talk about the various benefits of a manual. So her cars have all been automatics. I've tried driving them in manual mode, but find that it really doesn't replace the amusement of a real manual and only serves to remind me that I'm not really driving a manual.
BMW should have a manual option on, at minimum, all of their smaller cars. Not bringing it to the US on the X1 or the F31 is bull****.

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      10-03-2012, 12:21 PM   #11
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BMW should have a manual option on, at minimum, all of their smaller cars. Not bringing it to the US on the X1 or the F31 is bull****.
I agree with this too; however the only thing we can really blame is the place we live in. With BMW being a luxury brand (first and foremost) and a performance brand second, BMWNA looks at the cars they sell and their configurations. Have you tried finding manual E91s? There are uber rare. When X5s and X3s used to offer manual options; again I highly doubt they sold more manuals than automatics.

It's the same reason we don't get the M135i; because hatches (no matter how many internet posts you see wanting them) do not sell very well here.
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      10-03-2012, 12:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
I agree with this too; however the only thing we can really blame is the place we live in. With BMW being a luxury brand (first and foremost) and a performance brand second, BMWNA looks at the cars they sell and their configurations. Have you tried finding manual E91s? There are uber rare. When X5s and X3s used to offer manual options; again I highly doubt they sold more manuals than automatics.

It's the same reason we don't get the M135i; because hatches (no matter how many internet posts you see wanting them) do not sell very well here.
Someone posted E91 sales numbers over on the F30 boards a few months ago, they were less than 10% manual, which was surprising to me. Not surprisingly Cayenne GTS manual sales made up something like 3% of totals and I'm sure X3 and X5 totals were similar.

Years ago, my folks had a second generation Isuzu Trooper with a manual. That thing was great for what it was. My sister bought an automatic one and it was just as bad as the manual one was good.
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      10-03-2012, 12:56 PM   #13
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Look for the trend to continue, especially with the advent of such fuel economy trickery like auto start/stop.
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      10-03-2012, 01:05 PM   #14
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Look for the trend to continue, especially with the advent of such fuel economy trickery like auto start/stop.
ASS is friendly with manuals. The real difference is in the number of gears and the fact that with engines with such flat torque curves, you can have an autobox shift up extremely quickly and utilize the efficiency of a large throttle opening and low revs, something most manual drivers don't utilize.

Manuals will always exist, but I do think they'll become more and more limited to sports/sporty cars. I'm okay with that. If I had to buy a car today it would likely be a BRZ or a Miata and both conveniently have great manuals and a deficit of torque.
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      10-03-2012, 08:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by mabrahams View Post
While I agree with both of you; I have to say welcome to the future. Manuals are going to go bye bye.
That may be true in general, but I don't mind dual clutch systems. The bottom line is it has to be fully driver-controlled. Kick down and automatic shifting, stuff like that really irks me.

I may have to pick up a 6mt E91 while I still can. Shame I can't import the N55. Or M5 touring while I'm dreaming. I figured it just made sense for the X1 to come in manual. It's the smallest, cheapest SAV they make and it's not like there would be a ton of configuration required to mate the typical 6mt to the N55.
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      10-04-2012, 04:40 PM   #16
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With BMW being a luxury brand (first and foremost) and a performance brand second, BMWNA looks at the cars they sell and their configurations.
I always thought that's what Mercedes was for, they've been getting it wrong IMO and will lose most of their enthusiast following soon I believe. What bothers me is there are 5 badge hoes and/or dopes who don't care about driving dynamics for every one enthusiast, ok maybe 10 which is why your statement is becoming truer with each new generation. Electric steering, start/stop buttons, hybrids, turbo everything (even in M cars!) that don't get the mileage they claim and will never respond like an NA. I get this stuff but they would do more with less by just bringing more diesels while retaining some old school goodness of the brand that is ie. hydraulic, NA, 6MT, etc rather than this all or nothing approach they seem to be adopting.
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      10-04-2012, 06:45 PM   #17
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Ok guys, so, what to do? Need AWD (LSD if full-time, or at least RWD bias prior to front engagement), good power, 6-speed, navigation.
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      10-04-2012, 07:53 PM   #18
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I drove the X1 xDrive35i M Sport Line in manual mode using the console selector (no paddle shifters on the car) and thought it was fun to drive that way. I think having 6 gears instead of 8 is an advantage if you want to drive that way.

I'm driving a 2010 135i convertible now with 6MT and like the manual trans, but would be okay with the 6 speed auto in the X1.
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      10-04-2012, 11:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdriver View Post
You make perfect sense to me, I am no fan of the auto manuals. My wife's car is a G37 with a 7-spd auto and I just leave it in full auto mode virtually every time I drive it. Cannot get into shifting without a clutch....
I also agree with these sentiments. While I do regret not ordering the paddle shifters so I could try them out for myself and since they were so inexpensive, the reason I didn't order them is my experience with the VW DSG transmission. As an automatic transmission, I actually think the DSG transmission is excellent if you take reliability concerns out of the equation-- its manual transmission roots help -- but its no fun in that car at all to do manual shifts. Without the clutch, I simply don't feel involved and I feel lost like I'm sort of playing a boring video game in which I don't have an appropriate feel for the game. With a boring video game, you simply stop playing before perfecting your skills and that is how I feel with manual mode shifting with the DSG.

I got a lightly optioned X1 in part since I want to be able to justify in my mind possibly getting a fun manual based sports car within the next couple of years to go alongside it.

If I didn't live in a high traffic area, I would certainly get a manual car as a daily driver but I only switched after driving manuals in heavy traffic for 12 years.
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      10-10-2012, 08:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula M View Post
As wonderful as the 8sp is, it is not as effecient, nor as good at anticipating my needs... as good as me.


Also.. BMW sells X1's in Germany & Europe with manuals... & have for years. Why can't Americans find it on the option list, even @ a premium..?
That is the nature of my speculation. We know that if the N55 and 6sp auto can go into the X1, so can the 6mt from the same era.
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      10-10-2012, 09:08 AM   #21
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That is the nature of my speculation. We know that if the N55 and 6sp auto can go into the X1, so can the 6mt from the same era.
Don't count on it. BMW USA appears convinced that only a few folks want manuals. Note that the F30 328i xDrive and all of the F31's will be automatic only. This is a growing trend with BMW USA and for me at least, it's forcing me to shop elsewhere.
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      10-10-2012, 10:38 AM   #22
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Ok guys, so, what to do? Need AWD (LSD if full-time, or at least RWD bias prior to front engagement), good power, 6-speed, navigation.
Not many choices- 335 Xdrive is still there (always CPO too) or you'll be looking at things like WRX/STi/Golf R. S4 although not cheap is definitely worth a look
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