The Shock/Strut Thread

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by GRANTLDN

And as for improving the handling of my x1, if i was that concerned about the performance side of things I sure as hell wouldnt be in a 2 litre diesel x1 2wd looking at springs after coming from a 4wd r32.

What does that even mean?

So the rest of us shouldn't care either?

And I think Para and I both regret the spat in the middle of this thread. It's the internet, it happens. If we could delete it all, we would. Get over it. No one forced you to read through it. It was at times, however, actually relevant and educational.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by GRANTLDN

Yes but the point is you had coilovers. Not shocks and springs.

Handling was important and you went in the right direction and perfected the set up which is great.

That's a ridiculous assertion...that if you care at all about handling, you should defacto be buying a set of coilovers made for a different car, and making them work.

For some of us, these are daily drivers, even our wives' cars...with coilovers being significant overkill. Baseline decent coilovers are getting you adjustable ride height over a set of good springs and good struts/shocks. Hardly astronomical, hardly needed by all, hardly worth the premium, slammed ride height, etc.

This, for example, is the highest a set of KWV3s will go in the rear:




Not exactly for everyone...


But all that aside...you said it yourself. You were looking for information on H&R springs for the X1.

Even if you don't care about handling, you're going to have to look into things like bumpstop length, travel, etc. Unless you drive on glass smooth roads, the H&Rs, in addition to being underdamped on stock struts/shocks, will lead to bottoming out, especially with high speed impacts.

So yeah, if you're looking for info the H&Rs, you should be reading these posts. They're 100% applicable to what you're thinking about doing, whether you're interested in "performance" or not.

Even my wife demanded real shocks when she had the car for a couple days on the springs alone.

[fw_fw]

Originally Posted by GRANTLDN

I can't believe the debate over a set of shocks and springs.

I have run cheap coilovers on a e36 in the past with trimmed bump stops and no helper springs and they are fine until you hit a harsh pot hole - but lets be honest no suspension will ever feel brilliant.

We are trying to figure some things out, and if you did read the full thread you can see when this thread started no one had installed the Bilsteins on an X1, so we are learning and discussing the options.

E36s have dozens of suspension options, we are treading in new territory with an X1. And yes, there are suspensions out that do feel brilliant.

Originally Posted by GRANTLDN

I came here looking for a bit of feedback about h&r springs and seen 8 pages of bickering about bottoming out.

I do as I please and learn a long the way just like to try and get a bit of a heads up before hand.

...and that's all we are trying to do is learn from each other, as with the X1 suspension options are very limited and only on been on the market for a short time. I put the H&Rs on my car last December, and at the time Bilsteins were not available. The cheapest quality coilovers available are 8 times the price of the H&Rs. Went the H&R route and it improved things, but not as good as it could be, and yes bottoming out is an issue. Now we have Bilsteins available and we are exploring all the right options to see what works, and it looks like it will work. I'm only waiting on the front Bilsteins to come in, and the improvement to an already great little car is tremendous even without those. Total cost of the H&Rs and Bilsteins are still half the cost of the coilovers, so it's still worth it. Plus coilovers at their highest setting are still way too low for a daily driver use IMO. For my objectives, i.e. better handling, ride, and looks for a daily driver wagon that I can have occasional fun with at an Autocross I more than have exceeded my goals, whereas coilovers would not have met that objective.

So we have spent 8 pages talking about the options and their effects...so what? Is there a maximum of pages allowed to discuss suspension options that we don't know about??

Originally Posted by GRANTLDN

And as for improving the handling of my x1, if i was that concerned about the performance side of things I sure as hell wouldnt be in a 2 litre diesel x1 2wd looking at springs after coming from a 4wd r32.

Well that's your choice to buy a diesel. BMW has made the X1 a different class of car in Europe than here in the US, even our econo version is Europe's top performing version. We have the option to choose from 3 different US versions, 1 of which is totally different from yours. The xDrive35i is a little performance wagon that is great from the factory, and can be made to perform even better....and definitely better than a R32. Many of us wanted to buy a small performance wagon and we got that in the xDrive35i. Our apologies for you not having that choice in Europe...

[GrantE83]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

What does that even mean?

So the rest of us shouldn't care either?

And I think Para and I both regret the spat in the middle of this thread. It's the internet, it happens. If we could delete it all, we would. Get over it. No one forced you to read through it. It was at times, however, actually relevant and educational.

I'm not saying the thread isn't relevant or educational.

I'm also not saying no one else should 'care'.

What I'm trying to get across is if handling was the key concern for the x1 I would buy coilovers then buy wheel / tyres around my suspension set up.

I'm only buying springs because I'm buying it just to get the car a slightly bit lower to reduce arch gap, ay improvements on handling etc then great but if I bottom out etc which I am expecting to then I have to take that on the head but I will do what I can to avoid that.

I'm going with H&R springs and trimmed bump stops. If after driving them I then realise I need to get some struts as well then so be it I will have to. But for the money the springs / shocks costs you are not far of a set of coilovers so I would be more inclined to sell the springs and aim for some KW's.

The main thing I was looking for here was to see if anyone had done any arch rolling as the arch lips are very large, so that's another hurdle I'm gonna get too soon.

I'm not here to be seen as bickering I was merely saying if handling is that much of an important factor then buy coilovers and try and build your car around that.

[GrantE83]

Originally Posted by fw_fw

We are trying to figure some things out, and if you did read the full thread you can see when this thread started no one had installed the Bilsteins on an X1, so we are learning and discussing the options.

E36s have dozens of suspension options, we are treading in new territory with an X1. And yes, there are suspensions out that do feel brilliant.



...and that's all we are trying to do is learn from each other, as with the X1 suspension options are very limited and only on been on the market for a short time. I put the H&Rs on my car last December, and at the time Bilsteins were not available. The cheapest quality coilovers available are 8 times the price of the H&Rs. Went the H&R route and it improved things, but not as good as it could be, and yes bottoming out is an issue. Now we have Bilsteins available and we are exploring all the right options to see what works, and it looks like it will work. I'm only waiting on the front Bilsteins to come in, and the improvement to an already great little car is tremendous even without those. Total cost of the H&Rs and Bilsteins are still half the cost of the coilovers, so it's still worth it. Plus coilovers at their highest setting are still way too low for a daily driver use IMO. For my objectives, i.e. better handling, ride, and looks for a daily driver wagon that I can have occasional fun with at an Autocross I more than have exceeded my goals, whereas coilovers would not have met that objective.

So we have spent 8 pages talking about the options and their effects...so what? Is there a maximum of pages allowed to discuss suspension options that we don't know about??



Well that's your choice to buy a diesel. BMW has made the X1 a different class of car in Europe than here in the US, even our econo version is Europe's top performing version. We have the option to choose from 3 different US versions, 1 of which is totally different from yours. The xDrive35i is a little performance wagon that is great from the factory, and can be made to perform even better....and definitely better than a R32. Many of us wanted to buy a small performance wagon and we got that in the xDrive35i. Our apologies for you not having that choice in Europe...

I'm glad people are learning that's the whole point

I would expect E36 to have some great suspensions designed they are almost 20 years old.

I guess I'm just confused as why it's so important to have such great handling on a daily car, improving handling is fine of course, but it seems like it's very important on your daily so fair play, but a daily to me is a car that you get around in to keep costs down assuming you have a project car? If not then fine.

You can have as many pages as you like talking about you want, just like I can have my opinion.

Way to go for blowing Americas trumpet in regards to car options .. I chose a diesel because of running costs, fuel consumption and I have a child on the way so I opted for something a bit cheaper to run.

You 2 seem have got the wrong end of the stick like I'm trying to attack but if that's how you want me to come across then fine

[PrematureApex]

Update...no news is good news.

No bottoming out front or rear, and handling is MUCH improved with the addition of the B6s. Firm feeling over small imperfections/lots of road feel as with all high pressure monotubes, but very compliant over the big bumps.

Awesome DD setup, leaving the car feeling surprisingly sporty. I think it has more roll stiffness than our 135 now.

[AWF87M2]

I already had my car aligned when I had my h&r springs installed. Would my car need another alignment when I decide to swap out my m sport shocks for B6s?

[fw_fw]

Originally Posted by tw4life

I already had my car aligned when I had my h&r springs installed. Would my car need another alignment when I decide to swap out my m sport shocks for B6s?

Rears: No

Fronts: Yes

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by tw4life

I already had my car aligned when I had my h&r springs installed. Would my car need another alignment when I decide to swap out my m sport shocks for B6s?

Originally Posted by fw_fw

Rears: No

Fronts: Yes

Not entirely sure where this answer comes from. At a high level, springs dictate ride height, not shocks/struts, and the installation of neither rear shocks nor front struts on an X1 requires removal of eccentric alignment bolts, etc. So the cursory answer is no, no alignment required on either end.

The more detailed answer is high pressure gas monotubes like the B6s, increase ride height a bit. So while you're probably OK going with the old alignment, it will be off a bit resulting from the mild (.25" maybe) height height increase and the corresponding toe change.

[fw_fw]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Not entirely sure where this answer comes from. At a high level, springs dictate ride height, not shocks/struts, and the installation of neither rear shocks nor front struts on an X1 requires removal of eccentric alignment bolts, etc. So the cursory answer is no, no alignment required on either end.

The more detailed answer is high pressure gas monotubes like the B6s, increase ride height a bit. So while you're probably OK going with the old alignment, it will be off a bit resulting from the mild (.25" maybe) height height increase and the corresponding toe change.

Pelican parts says you should get an alignment after the front strut change:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...eplacement.htm

So do other sites:

http://www.rmeuropean.com/bmw-e90-st...placement.aspx

...but you can find just as many articles saying you don't need an alignment. For me, better safe than sorry....

[andybmr]

PrematureApex. Would you mine posting pics of your x1 with bilstein B6 Thanks!

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by fw_fw

Pelican parts says you should get an alignment after the front strut change:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tech...eplacement.htm

So do other sites:

http://www.rmeuropean.com/bmw-e90-st...placement.aspx

...but you can find just as many articles saying you don't need an alignment. For me, better safe than sorry....

Hmmm...

While I'm almost certain they do, perhaps the E90s don't have the alignment pins in the top hats?

If that's the case, than yes, the upper strut towers are a bit slotted, so if you don't have the pins in place, and you don't mark the location of the tophat within the slots, your alignment might be off (albeit only very slightly).

Edit: Nope, they even point out the pin in the instructions. You're not changing anything that affects alignment though. My guess is, they're not assuming in those instructions that your replacement struts have the same body length/spring perch position, or aren't high pressure gas, to where ride height and thus your alignment would be in some way altered.

[Mr_Jack]

4 rear shocks in stock at Bilstein USA......12-14 week wait time for fronts out of Germany.....GRRRRRR

Dilemma now.....friend is selling me his KW V3 from his 335(dirt cheap), just need to machine a strut sleeve and we're good....or wait for the Bilsteins......ughhhhh

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Mr_Jack

4 rear shocks in stock at Bilstein USA......12-14 week wait time for fronts out of Germany.....GRRRRRR

Dilemma now.....friend is selling me his KW V3 from his 335(dirt cheap), just need to machine a strut sleeve and we're good....or wait for the Bilsteins......ughhhhh

Don't worry, the front Bilsteins don't take the 12 weeks. They quoted me the same. Mine came in 4 or 5, and that's after being shipped from Germany to CA, and then across the country to me.

I mean, if you're OK with the drop of the V3s, that's definitely the nicer setup though. That said, I do love HDs...I pretty much but them on every car I own...love them.

[fw_fw]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Don't worry, the front Bilsteins don't take the 12 weeks. They quoted me the same. Mine came in 4 or 5, and that's after being shipped from Germany to CA, and then across the country to me.

I ordered mine August 31st thru Tire Rack, still waiting......

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by fw_fw

I ordered mine August 31st thru Tire Rack, still waiting......

Boo! Hopefully you'll hear from them soon. I ordered in mid/ate August and got them at the end of September...iirc.

I always order Bilsteins via AJUSA, normally a fair bit cheaper than TR.

[kychungkevin]

I ordered my B12 kit on ECS turning back in May and the arrival date kept pushing back. Finally at July they push it to Dec and I cancel the order. End up ordered at nh-tuning from German and got it in a month; they may still have the shocks in stock. Try email them info@nh-tuning.de or go to their ebay store nh-tuning_de.

[Mr_Jack]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Don't worry, the front Bilsteins don't take the 12 weeks. They quoted me the same. Mine came in 4 or 5, and that's after being shipped from Germany to CA, and then across the country to me.

I mean, if you're OK with the drop of the V3s, that's definitely the nicer setup though. That said, I do love HDs...I pretty much but them on every car I own...love them.

I love how it sits on the H&R's.



I assume the KW min drop is pretty aggressive?

KW V3 with 15k miles for $1000 or B6 for $660 and the wait time...

[AWF87M2]

one thing I am still curious is why the KWV1 is listed only for the X drive 35/28 and not the s drive 28... I wouldn't want to pay $2.6k for the V3.

[Mr_Jack]

Well my friend sold the KW's already =( Guess I am going to order the Bilsteins.

[Drlu23]

So question, would I be better off swapping out oem m3 rear subframe bushings vs white line or power flex? I would like to keep some comfort vs a more harsh ride.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Drlu23

So question, would I be better off swapping out oem m3 rear subframe bushings vs white line or power flex? I would like to keep some comfort vs a more harsh ride.

No decrease in ride quality with any of them. Have you ever read a post saying they did? They bolt the subframe to the unibody, and thus, have no affect on the suspension. Also never heard (or experienced on my 3 cars) any increased driveline vibrations transmitted either.

Are you doing the swap yourself? If so, inserts are much easier to install vs. needing to press the M3 bushings in...in addition to being much less expensive.