Rear sway bar upgrade

[PrematureApex]

Have you considered just doing the front bar? Very limited options (1)...but the install is cake, so that will make up for the added cost of the bar.

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/swayb...ly--p1323.aspx

Currently 10% off and free shipping, but you're not in the states.

Apparently, KW does make one internationally, but you have to call them to order it. PN: 68515003 (that PN might be for the front and rear)

[Vidgamer]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

...

Even the "larger" bar is quite thin. What is the stock MSport, 15mm? An M3 rear bar, by way of comparison, is almost 24mm. And that's on a lighter car.

My ol' Acura TSX (the car in which I replaced the sway bar) had a 17mm bar stock and I replaced it with a 19mm one. Did it handle better than the X1?

It isn't about laptimes really. No one is racing you to the 7-11.

So, another reason to keep it stock?

It's about handling feel. It's about making the car a bit more fun to drive. And minor suspension work certainly accomplishes this, particularly with this car.

The problem is knowing which work, specifically, will improve things, and not just change things. I would be concerned about replacing the FSB alone, as mentioned above. Wouldn't that just introduce more understeer?

It's not hard to get it to drive just about exactly like the 3 series it is underneath.

Good to know.

[PrematureApex]

Originally Posted by Vidgamer

My ol' Acura TSX (the car in which I replaced the sway bar) had a 17mm bar stock and I replaced it with a 19mm one. Did it handle better than the X1?

I don't know what you're saying (asking?). How the hell should I know what car handled better? But if you're in a stock X1, the TSX would probably be said to "handle" subjectively better. That car actually has a highly-praised chassis tune on it from the factory, at least the first-gen TSX did.

But I hope you didn't pay a lot to "upgrade" the bar a mere 2mm (assuming they were the same construction otherwise). That's not going to a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Vidgamer

The problem is knowing which work, specifically, will improve things, and not just change things. I would be concerned about replacing the FSB alone, as mentioned above. Wouldn't that just introduce more understeer?

No, actually. There's a reason competitive stock-class autox cars with front strut suspensions run monster front swaybars (illegal to change the rear).

There's two reasons the front bar reduces understeer, generally speaking. As with many newer cars, they hit the bumpstops in hard cornering and greatly increase the effective spring rate on the outside front. The stiffer front bar helps eliminate this and keeps the suspension working while cornering. Secondly, with the typically poor camber gain during suspension travel in strut-suspension cars, body roll reduces tire contact. The heavier bar will reduce the roll and keep the tires in better contact.

But more importantly, since you're unlikely to be driving at 10/10ths on the street (and while I've had ours out...it's rare to see one at a DE), and thus will rarely if ever, experience actual understeer...the point of the upgrade is, again, feel. A front bar increases roll stiffness, making the front end much sharper on turn-in, and generally promotes flatter cornering.

It's more fun to drive, at any speed.

The rear bar is felt the most at throttle lift-off, and turn in. Helps liven up the rear, even if just a bit, in addition to the roll stiffness increase.

And remember, they aren't affecting your ride quality in any appreciable way...hence, they're very popular for daily-driven cars.

Seriously, do you think that these are HUGELY popular aftermarket products for no reason at all?

For a daily driver, it's hard to beat stock springs, upgraded struts/shocks (Bilsteins or Konis), and, depending on the car, F and/or R sways. The only reason why one would add springs in the case of the X1 is that you don't need the ground clearance, and prefer the car to look/drive more like the wagon that it really is.

[Vidgamer]

Exhausts and intakes are also wildly popular, even when on cars where it makes little difference. I wouldn't want a mod based purely on popularity.

Anyway, good to know that it's worthwhile even on the street. It'll be a while before I get a good feel for the handling, but so far, I've been satisfied. I know it's not super sporty, but I've been pleasantly surprised how well it tackles corners. Good to know the options,tho.

The question regarding the TSX was rhetorical. The replacement bar was noticeably stiffer. 2mm can be significant.

[jaeezzy]

Originally Posted by PrematureApex

Have you considered just doing the front bar? Very limited options (1)...but the install is cake, so that will make up for the added cost of the bar.

http://store.uucmotorwerks.com/swayb...ly--p1323.aspx

Currently 10% off and free shipping, but you're not in the states.

Apparently, KW does make one internationally, but you have to call them to order it. PN: 68515003 (that PN might be for the front and rear)

I'm more inclined towards adding strut bar for the front. Also, our X1 already has 26.5 mm sway bar in the front. So, if you know of any front strut bar that could fit X1 then it would be great except for the AC Schnitzer one. Thanks

Originally Posted by Vidgamer

That's kind of my feeling -- people change stuff without really knowing if it's better or worse. Try to get as much info as you can on what people have done; few can do scientific tests back-to-back, so it's hard to argue against the factory tuning.

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Originally Posted by 0w40X1

Sway bars have their place, but can stiffen car too much, too.

Tuning a suspension is an artform.

I read about people adding lots of stuff on various sporty cars, but can't get it to grip any better.

So, as well as my X1 s28i M Sport grips, and handles, I'm not changing any settings that can't be changed back; even the alignment.

As long as tires wear properly, and grip feels great changing is not for me.

In my world, I like to do More with Less.

You can read all about stuff but You wouldn't know how it actually feels (for you) unless you try it for yourself as the feelings are rarely mutual. 0w40X1 I'm in that same world of yours - trying to do more with less unless you mean stripping out even the stock ones to get more out of the car There aren't much out there to begin with esp. for e84 X1 diesel. I don't think sway bar upgrade is that big of a mod but it just happened to be a PITA for our X1 as it's so well hidden behind the rear axle. However, I'm quite the opposite on changing stuff I changed to wider non-rft performance tires for better grip and softer ride than the stock p7 rft, zimmermann brake rotors and EBC pads. Even on the looks side, I have wrapped the hood, roof spoiler, mirror caps and the sides. I just want my car to look and feel different and of course better Have few more planned for the future

Well now I think it's a good reason to get myself all the tools and start working on the car myself and learn my way around it.

[0w40X1]

Yeah, I know, it's interesting to find something to change.

I did that on a car or 2, and over maintained it.

Have fun on it, and you'll learn what the changes feel like for other cars even.

The same alignment specs for a fun handling car work on nearly everyone.

[0w40X1]

I wish there were mod fixes for more durable water pumps, thermostats, and timing chains on the N20.

I have an 07 RX8 that is known for bad coils, fuel pumps, and shocks, and I put more durable mods on them.

I had a 73 RX3 Mazda with same bad parts.

BMW is a whole different ball of wax to Japanese cars.

[Vidgamer]

Originally Posted by 0w40X1

I wish there were mod fixes for more durable water pumps, thermostats, and timing chains on the N20.

I have an 07 RX8 that is known for bad coils, fuel pumps, and shocks, and I put more durable mods on them.

I had a 73 RX3 Mazda with same bad parts.

BMW is a whole different ball of wax to Japanese cars.

Yeah, but one time I had to wait 2 weeks for a plastic radiator piece to be shipped from Japan, for my RX-7. I wouldn't use an RX as an example of a reliable or problem-free car, exactly. A lot of cars have their, um, quirks, or weak spots, but some brands are worse than others. And unfortunately, the Wankel engine just was more finicky....

Now, if you're talking Toyota or Honda, it's crazy how reliable those can be.

[0w40X1]

It's amazing how many Mazda Rotary owners also buy BMW's. Maybe they're adventurous, and know it can be fixed.

My point wasn't that the RX8 is problem free; my point was that there is a massive amount of discussion, parts, and knowledge coming out of the RX8club.com, etc., and some of the suspension knowledge transfers to nearly any car.

From what I read, my BMW X1 s28i isn't winning a durability contest, yet., and you better be on your game when you take it to BMW.

[Vidgamer]

I really liked the RX-7, but at some point, things start breaking... and I had trouble with mechanics making it worse. It seemed like such an odd thing -- harder to get parts for, expensive to work on, failing seals meaning major engine repair, etc., that I said to myself, I would have to avoid foreign sports cars in the future! We have had a couple of "safe" Honda/Acuras since then, as well as a Subaru and VW. All seemed pretty reliable, with only minor, cheap repairs.

So, yeah, if I have to get the BMW repaired, I may be in pain. Low miles, so hopefully I won't worry about it for a while.

So what is a reliable sports car? If you have a Camaro or Mustang, you can get all sorts of parts, and they are straightforward to work on, generally. I told myself, that's what I should look at. They perform well, but they are cramped inside, and while they seem to have a ton of luxury features (depending on trim level), they can feel cheap in parts. So, I couldn't get excited about paying $35k for one (not interested in $45k for the V8). I just can't win. I think if they had a Camaro that still looked cool but was more sensible in interior room, I'd be really excited about it. Heck, if GM stuck a fast engine and better suspension in the Cruise, that might be interesting. *shrug*

In the meantime, I have a car that may be faster than the RX-7 and gets only slightly better gas mileage. :-/ But at least it seats 4 comfortably! (5 uncomfortably? ;-) )

[0w40X1]

I've always had some sort of fun car except for the 2 PU's I wore out.

My first car was a 70 Corolla, and Toyota has proven to be really tough through the years.

I have a Toyota Innova diesel in another country that I expect will outlive me.

Those rotary cars need to be owned by enthusiasts, since they can be ruined fairly easy.

I had a 73 RX3 which I drove really hard, and it finished with an RX4 engine, but I put an extra ATF cooler on my 2007 6 speed auto RX8, and that fixed most of the heat problem.

I also learned to put 2 stroke oil in the gas to make sure it's lubed.

Everyone hates on an auto RX8, but it shifts at 7k rpm, and keeps more 14 deg more heat off the trans with my cooler, so I'm not worried about the engine too much. I don't drive much anyway.