BMW = The Spirit Airlines of Automobiles

[flguy400]

This is kind of a vent thread.

I find it funny how BMW puts bluetooth in the car for you to make phone calls, yet you have to buy an upgrade package in order to listen to audio through bluetooth. In addition, they make you buy a special cord in order to plug an iPhone in because they won't update the software to allow you to use your standard iPhone cable.

I also tried to purchase their special cable and it turns out they don't like to update their accessories every 5 years to accommodate Apple, so they don't sell a lightning y cable, only an original iPhone cable which you then have to plug in an adapter to that. Pretty soon your looking like Thomas Edison driving a vehicle with a million cables around your shifter.

Come on BMW. If I can buy a crappy Korean car for $12k and it includes bluetooth music streaming then it seems like the ultimate driving machine would include that. Or at least don't offer bluetooth phone and make the music streaming additional costs. It is literally just a computer software update to change that.

BTW, if any of you have a 2012-2013 X1 and are frustrated by the lack of keyless start (i.e. you have to plug in your key to start the car instead of just having the keys in your pocket). You can request a software update to get rid of the auto shut off when you come to a stop. That update also includes keyless start.

[Grovsnus]

Originally Posted by flguy400

This is kind of a vent thread.

I find it funny how BMW puts bluetooth in the car for you to make phone calls, yet you have to buy an upgrade package in order to listen to audio through bluetooth.

Bluetooth requires pairing. While it's certainly possible to enter a code without a graphical console or even one-line display, it's not an easy thing to do. An alternative could be a NFC reader that did the pairing for you, but you'd still complain, because Apple doesn't support NFC (the NFC chip is crippled to only work with iPay).

Originally Posted by flguy400

In addition, they make you buy a special cord in order to plug an iPhone in because they won't update the software to allow you to use your standard iPhone cable.

The problem is that the iPhone cable isn't a standard; it's a proprietary cable.
You can plug in any device that uses a standard USB cable or a standard line-level mini-jack, and it works just fine. I'm fine with those who choose to not use standard equipment pay extra, instead of all of the rest of us subsidising those users.

[flguy400]

Originally Posted by Grovsnus

Bluetooth requires pairing. While it's certainly possible to enter a code without a graphical console or even one-line display, it's not an easy thing to do. An alternative could be a NFC reader that did the pairing for you, but you'd still complain, because Apple doesn't support NFC (the NFC chip is crippled to only work with iPay).

Bluetooth for phone calls works. It just doesn't work for playing music. What your saying does not make sense.


The problem is that the iPhone cable isn't a standard; it's a proprietary cable.
You can plug in any device that uses a standard USB cable or a standard line-level mini-jack, and it works just fine. I'm fine with those who choose to not use standard equipment pay extra, instead of all of the rest of us subsidising those users.

The iPhone cable is a usb cable at one end. You can plug it into the USB port on the bmw x1 and the car says cable is not recognized (this is a software issue that could be fixed easily by BMW). The Y cable is how BMW allows you to use an iPhone with the car. The Y cable is designed to make the car recognize the iPhone and play music through the car. Instead of making it an additional cable, BMW could have just made the car recognize iPhones when plugged into the USB port on the car. Instead, they nickel and dime you to purchase a $100 cable. They haven't even updated the cable to have a lightning connector, instead it still has the old iPhone adapter.

[Twix]

The problem with the $12k Korean car is it's chassis. BMW cars have a fully seem welded chassis and use a higher strength steel than the Korean or whatever cars. You're not really paying for the tech in a BMW as much as you're paying for a much more solid vehicle. Look how many cheap cars rust out after just a few years, whereas BMWs, Mercs etc seem to live on for decades while hardly rusting at all.

The other things is, you bought an X1, not a 7 series. BMW places all their newest and greatest tech in their flagship car to retain those customers by making them feel "special". As the tech increases, the older tech slowly makes its way down into the lower end models.

The bluetooth thing is kinda annoying, but I had to pay $450 for Sirius in my car. That's even easier to code and what not than the $100 cable you have to buy because you choose to have an Apple product.

[flguy400]

Originally Posted by Twix

The problem with the $12k Korean car is it's chassis. BMW cars have a fully seem welded chassis and use a higher strength steel than the Korean or whatever cars. You're not really paying for the tech in a BMW as much as you're paying for a much more solid vehicle. Look how many cheap cars rust out after just a few years, whereas BMWs, Mercs etc seem to live on for decades while hardly rusting at all.

The other things is, you bought an X1, not a 7 series. BMW places all their newest and greatest tech in their flagship car to retain those customers by making them feel "special". As the tech increases, the older tech slowly makes its way down into the lower end models.

The bluetooth thing is kinda annoying, but I had to pay $450 for Sirius in my car. That's even easier to code and what not than the $100 cable you have to buy because you choose to have an Apple product.

So it sounds like you agree with me about annoying little things but at the same time are saying that we are paying significantly more for a better chassis and other parts.

I agree that the build quality of BMW is much better than most other car manufacturers. I am just saying that they are behind on providing small features that should be included at no additional charge and then you get uncharged on them significantly.

For 50-80k I would expect the car to have all the bells and whistles, but even a base model 2013 and later BMW should have bluetooth streaming of music if it already accepts bluetooth for making phone calls.

Additionally, BMW should be trying to provide the latest and greatest accessories that work with popular cell phone products like IOS and Android. Its not like they didn't have a Y cable to begin with.... I would have even spent the $100 for one if it were lightning.

[Twix]

Remember, the chassis and computers on board the X1 isn't from "2013" or whatever, it's from 2007 when BMW introduced the E9x. We're behind in a lot of tech because of this.

It is ridiculous, but it's all about having tiers of hierarchy to the BMW system. A guy that spends $180k on a 7 series would be pissed if his car wasn't more special than a $35k X1.

The next gen of X1 I'm sure will offer a lot more tech, simple tech, in the base model to make it more competitive in the market. I'm guessing it will also be FWD with AWD as an option. Powered by the new 3 cyl engine.

So more tech, less BMW if you ask me or many others.

[Njerts]

Another way to look at is the fact that you get the same engine, transmission, chassis and suspension as a $60000 3 or 4 or 5 model for a bargain basement price. The only thing you miss out on is tech.

[flguy400]

Originally Posted by Twix

The next gen of X1 I'm sure will offer a lot more tech, simple tech, in the base model to make it more competitive in the market. I'm guessing it will also be FWD with AWD as an option. Powered by the new 3 cyl engine.

So more tech, less BMW if you ask me or many others.

I agree with you there. I will be keeping my rear wheel drive x1 with no plan on ever getting a fwd model.

[rps]

BTW, if any of you have a 2012-2013 X1 and are frustrated by the lack of keyless start (i.e. you have to plug in your key to start the car instead of just having the keys in your pocket). You can request a software update to get rid of the auto shut off when you come to a stop. That update also includes keyless start.[/QUOTE]

I still have the auto start/stop and have never had to put the fob in the dash to start my car. My SA said you should only have to put the fob in the dash if the battery is dead in the fob. I do have CA if that makes any difference.

[bimmr]

Originally Posted by Twix

Remember, the chassis and computers on board the X1 isn't from "2013" or whatever, it's from 2007 when BMW introduced the E9x. We're behind in a lot of tech because of this.

It is ridiculous, but it's all about having tiers of hierarchy to the BMW system. A guy that spends $180k on a 7 series would be pissed if his car wasn't more special than a $35k X1.

The next gen of X1 I'm sure will offer a lot more tech, simple tech, in the base model to make it more competitive in the market. I'm guessing it will also be FWD with AWD as an option. Powered by the new 3 cyl engine.

So more tech, less BMW if you ask me or many others.

OK, i might get flamed by thinking this out loud, especially when I am on the x1 sub-forum here. lol

But yeah.. are we all stupid here buying 2007 technologies in 2015 (8 years difference), and paying so much for it? It seems like we are 1-2 generations behind...

Thinking back, I dont think we even had iphones 8 years ago. That's like saying buying the oldest iphones for full pop and using it today....

[Twix]

That was my point. The tech in our car is old. Newer BMWs get newer tech. Doesn't make us dumb at all, just means we have to live with the lesser available technologies we have as a standard feature.

BMW could update it, but why would they bother when the F48 is due out end of this year, beginning of next. This car is just getting rid of all the E9x and E8x parts left in the bins. But that isn't a bad thing either.

[bimmr]

Originally Posted by Twix

That was my point. The tech in our car is old. Newer BMWs get newer tech. Doesn't make us dumb at all, just means we have to live with the lesser available technologies we have as a standard feature.

BMW could update it, but why would they bother when the F48 is due out end of this year, beginning of next. This car is just getting rid of all the E9x and E8x parts left in the bins. But that isn't a bad thing either.

Forgive me, but why isnt that a bad thing for people who purchased recently 2014 / 2015 models? Or in fact, anyone that purchased the x1 in US, since it had such a short life span.

The only advantage I see is that it still use hydraulic steering (honestly, i cant even tell much of a difference between this and electric), and being the last x1 on RWD (which I don't think it matters to me much neither, cant tell the difference lol)...

I guess the other advantages that you guys mentioned: the x1 is built on a reliable/popular/stable e9x 3-series (some particular model), and has proven its reliability/stability/value over the past years? is this true?

End of the day, unlike you guys who once owned a couple BMWs or experienced with cars, i am a total noob, and this is my first BMW (thats why I asked a lot of noob bmw questions). All i heard from others is the fact that BMW are expensive to maintain especially after it goes out of warranty... so I figured that buying the x1 now would be better than risking buying the new 2016 x1 FWD (first year), and the possibility of getting all kinds of issues..

[Bill B.]

I'd rather have my E84 X1 with a Victrola sitting on the console than a FWD 3 cylinder econobox that is going to be the next X1. I don't care that it is going to support all the latest iCrap.

My hydraulically steered, 6 cylinder, AWD E84 handles fantastic for the platform that it is. It's a blast to drive, and keeps me fully engaged with the road. When I drive my car, I actually want to enjoy driving the car. I don't expect to be entertained and detached from my responsibilities while I'm behind the wheel.

As a motorcyclist, I cringe at each successive introduction of more driver distractions...

[bimmr]

Originally Posted by Bill B.

I'd rather have my E84 X1 with a Victrola sitting on the console than a FWD 3 cylinder econobox that is going to be the next X1. I don't care that it is going to support all the latest iCrap.

My hydraulically steered, 6 cylinder, AWD E84 handles fantastic for the platform that it is. It's a blast to drive, and keeps me fully engaged with the road. When I drive my car, I actually want to enjoy driving the car. I don't expect to be entertained and detached from my responsibilities while I'm behind the wheel.

As a motorcyclist, I cringe at each successive introduction of more driver distractions...

I can't say the same as I still have trouble understanding the difference between FWD and RWD. I ordered the AWD (xdrive) either way.. so I guess that there shouldn't be too much of difference?

[flguy400]

Originally Posted by bimmr

I can't say the same as I still have trouble understanding the difference between FWD and RWD. I ordered the AWD (xdrive) either way.. so I guess that there shouldn't be too much of difference?

There's a huge difference between FWD and RWD in terms of handling. FWD understeer in turns and tend to not have even weight distribution (i.e. if you have to make a sudden turn at decent speeds and you are still hitting the gas then you will lose control of the car much easier than if you had a RWD car).

There is also a big difference in drive feel. Your being pulled in FWD and your being pushed in RWD. How the car responds to flooring the gas peddle is significantly different.

Also with a RWD vehicle you can give it some gas going around a turn and swing the rear around which you can't do in a FWD car. Additionally, FWD vehicles have never felt sporty... ever.

[Twix]

The hydraulic steering is mechanical. Road "noise" is felt through the steering wheel whereas electric steering the noise is completely voided out. The feel is noticeable by driver's with experience in racing, allowing them to feel what the front tires are doing under them. I can tell a huge difference when driving my X1 compared to a new F30 or whatever. You can't tell as quickly when the tires are plowing and about to grab. With the X1, I can feel it and anticipate it through a corner.

It boils down to the hydraulic steering makes it easier to drive the car at it's limits.

The AWD system in the X1 is different than say a Subaru. The Subaru puts equal amounts of power to each wheel. Good for offroad, not so good on tacky pavement. They have a tendency to understeer, which is not fun. The X1 has it's bias set to the rear wheels, the fronts are there just for acceleration traction (more or less). This makes the car handle a bit more on the oversteer side which is easier to correct and drive. There are options for the xDrive system to even help steer the car through a corner by adding more power to the outside wheels than the inside wheels. Cool. And because it's a smart system, if one axle loses traction, the other can have power added and pull/push the car through the slippage.

FWD is an entirely different animal than RWD/AWD. They do have a tendency to massively understeer, but there are cars out there that handle very well. The Ford Fiesta ST is an absolute blast to drive hard. It begs you to lean into the throttle around corners. But, it's also a Ford. It's not nearly as nice in terms of build quality as any BMW.

The E9x is the out-going (gone) 3 series coupe, convertible, sedan and wagon. E92, E93, E90 and E91 respectively. These cars have been known be very reliable as well as comfortable and good in size. The newer F3x is bigger, heavier and lacks the driving feel that the out going car has. I've never heard of anyone having major issues with their E chassis 3 series, they seem to be pretty good at holding together.

As for BMWs being expensive to keep out of warranty. Expect to say on top of maintenance. Things will break on any car you ever buy, and where you go to get the work done may help the problem or make it worse. My dealership here in Calgary is actually $15/hr cheaper than my old Ford dealer. The oil changes on my truck were just as expensive as they are on my BMW. Some parts will cost more, but for the most part, they're the same. The world is a smaller place than it was 30 years ago when people said imports were expensive to fix. That statement is mostly untrue nowadays.