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      07-20-2015, 11:11 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X1Denver View Post
Asking X1 People about a dyno is pretty silly in so many ways.

BASE: Your TQ # is way higher than it should be. Something is off at the dyno/car problems. Or you haven't listed everything you have on the car.
Most stock 2wd n55 335i's do 270whp and 270-280TQ Rated at 300/300 Stock BHP

You have AWD and would bring down the stock number about 20% at the wheels, but BMW definatley under rates so add 5% or so back..

Tune: I find it very hard to believe your "tuned" TQ is lower than your "tuned" HP. Again something is off.

The Correction Factor is SAE so you can't blame it on that really, . I see you are in SLC. Does this shop deal with mostly NA vehicles or Boosted applications? Yes, it matters for altitude corrections.

CHOPPY GRAPH is because the smoothing is set to 0. hahahh not dinans fault.

I've had a dinan tune for over 40K miles on mine. Never one issue. But I don't track mine.

Also, Dyno Dynamics are not comparable unless you list what mode..shootout, normal, shootout 44 or something. They are the heartbreak dyno but you can manipulate them also with correction factors.

Try the next dynojet shop and I guarantee its different....always is. Make sure its SAE for CF. Smoothing could be a 5 just to make it look nice.

Otherwise you might have engine problems. Fuel Pressure, MAP sensor, MAF sensor, Wastegate issue......clogged cat endless
The Dynamics is mine, I know they read low, but I also know the timing was being set back. I suspect the OP is having the same issue. Retarded timing will result in more torque, but top end power will lack and drop off rapidly.

I also suspect that the Dinan software didn't download into the box, resulting in no results on the dyno, especially since he used the same shop over a period of two weeks. That two week difference also shows up in the torque portion of the graph. You can see that the temps were higher on the tuned run, torque comes on earlier and the power drops off hard and sooner. Both of those are usually caused by higher temps causing the computer to back timing off more. Possibly, the shop's fans are too small and don't move enough air through the rad, IC and the intake itself.

We're all on the right page, there's something not right and the OP should go back and either get a refund, or have the Dinan re-installed. I'd try the latter first. Note for the OP, if you have the A/F and timing graph, that'd help us further diagnose your issues with your tune.
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      07-26-2015, 10:00 PM   #24
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Any update on this? I find it difficult to make sense of these dyno runs when I read stuff like this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=831905

No dyno there, but the subjective reports seem credible.
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      07-26-2015, 10:07 PM   #25
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I mean, it would be nice to see some Dinan 1/4 mile trap speeds. While there's some level of adaptation, flash tune or piggy, you should feel a pretty much immediate difference, if not within a couple 3rd or 4th gear pulls during a single drive.

All a bit too subjective for me. I've never seen someone install a JB4 and say, "at first I didn't feel anything...but every time I drive the car...it feels a bit faster and a bit faster". You install it, romp the gas, and immediately start laughing, completely leaving any doubts about your purchase behind.

And while a JB4 (other other piggy) is going to ramp up boost more abruptly, and perhaps less OE like...you never really hear similar statements about other flash tunes like Cobb either. Something about Dinan though...lots of similar impressions.
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      07-28-2015, 06:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X1Denver View Post
Asking X1 People about a dyno is pretty silly in so many ways.

BASE: Your TQ # is way higher than it should be. Something is off at the dyno/car problems. Or you haven't listed everything you have on the car.
Most stock 2wd n55 335i's do 270whp and 270-280TQ Rated at 300/300 Stock BHP

You have AWD and would bring down the stock number about 20% at the wheels, but BMW definatley under rates so add 5% or so back..

Again something is off.



I've been running the stage 2 tune for 2.5 years now. No problems or issues.

Here's my dyno runs stock and tuned, and these numbers are from a Mustang dyno.





So not sure where your issues lie, but the tune does work as advertised.
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      08-11-2015, 01:17 PM   #27
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I haven't gotten e-mail notifications this thread had been updated, glad I checked.. Lots of new info and more questions.

So first, the car is stock other than the dinan tune.

I'm still experiencing little (worse?) performance improvement. I do see psi hit 13.5psi (it would hit high 11's pre tune on my ultragauge) but only for a fraction of a second before it drops, so the tune is in (I don't think a tune can be "part way" installed can it?)

At the track, the 335's I'll run with, I've maybe regained maybe 20' of about 150' loss during a 1500' straight. To me the tune still is showing almost no change.

I've also been recording sensors with torque and racechrono apps with obd. I'm not sure what I should be looking for yet but one thing that I find odd is the throttle position sensor drops from being in the 90%'s under WOT to 50%-70% for a half second or so, roughly half a second after going full throttle, before it jumps back up to 90%'s. I've checked the 02 sensor thinking maybe it's causing throttle to be cut but it's stable before, during, and after it happens. So is calculated load, but absolute load drops hard during this stutter (or is it reverse of those two sensors).

The throttle position drop is VERY reproducible. I'm talking _every_ single lap at the track you'd see a half second of 90% throttle, half second of bouncing around 50%-70%, then a 5-7 seconds of smooth 90%. Also about a quarter of the laps it would also have issues for a half second again sometime during the 5-7 seconds of straight (I go from about 60mph to 105 during the straight). O2 during these drops is stable, about middle of the voltage range. I can even reproduce off track. 1st gear I rarely see it but 2nd, 3rd, 4th all have throttle position drop after about a half second of WOT. I've still got to check if knock detection is doing something, there's probably a PID for that I believe.

I'm also currently trying to track down if it's related to a certain RPM, as I didn't have rpm monitored during my last track session. And I've seen a few graphs during street driving that I happened at the same rpm range, I just need time to verify.

I've run some 0-60 runs (apps, I know they're crap, but ballpark close) but I'm getting about 6.7s right now. I'd hit 5.4s regularly with the app before the tune, but there are a lot of variables (weather for one, gas, whatever) that change but over a second slower seems a little strange and I need to investigate further.

If anyone has recommendations on what obd PID's to monitor, I'm all ears. Only thing as I've said is I know the throttle sensor reports it's dropping.
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      08-11-2015, 01:29 PM   #28
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I has a solution!

Sell that thing and get yourself a JB4.
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      08-11-2015, 03:06 PM   #29
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Green - Timing
Pinish Orange - Calculated Engine Load
Yellow - Throttle Position (unexplained drop)
Purple - Accelerator Pedal Position
Cyan - Speed

You'll notice every time the Calculated Engine Load (orangish pink) jumps to max, throttle position (yellow) Always drops.
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Last edited by edx1; 08-11-2015 at 03:28 PM..
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      08-11-2015, 06:19 PM   #30
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If you're not already, you need to be posting this stuff on N54tuning, or at least on the E90 (or even E82) forums.

You'll have answers in minutes.
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      08-11-2015, 07:17 PM   #31
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I'd hate to crosspost, maybe a moderator could move the thread?
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      08-11-2015, 11:15 PM   #32
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If you look at the green line (timing), it's being pulled back on every run. Obviously there's something not working right. Could be bad gas, could be fouled plugs, or could be that the software isn't fully downloaded into the Dinantronics box. You can also see at the bottom of the pages, as time of day and number of passes increases, the timing becomes more pulled back due to the heat soaking the engine is experiencing, as well as the ambient temps getting higher in the afternoon.

The TPS dropping out might be because of a shift from the transmission, or opening of the wastegate.

The purple line draws a question from me. Is your foot at the first "full throttle" position, or are you pressing it past into the kick down area? It shows that your pedal is only 80%, except two runs, one at 1:04 and one at 2:19. Try resetting your throttle pedal (search the forum, there's a guide somewhere that should have been stacked).

How much boost are you running? Does your app check that? That's going to be the biggest player in the game of power. I'm not an N55 guy, I'm an N20 guy. I know with JB4 i could run up as high as 23.5psi, with Dinan I'm about 17.5psi. I think those numbers are cut down to about 50-60% for the N55, not entirely sure.

A boost leak from the charge pipes would cause power loss and throttle position to do wacky things because of the low pressure, but I'm sure it would also cause the idiot light to come on as well.

Hope some of this helps. Goodluck.
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      08-12-2015, 11:01 AM   #33
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The 7 graphs from yesterday might have different time stamps on the screen, but that's just when the screenshot was taken. All graphs were from the same 25 minute run on the track and you'll see the seconds (1148s) shown along the top of the charts. So ambient temps were the same.

I always use chevron 91,

I did some more measuring last night, my theory that it's rpm related isn't looking solid as I have data charts that show problems at every range from 3k to 6.5k. However, the 3.5k-5.5k seems to occur more regularly.

The 7 graphs drops I'm certain weren't from shifts, but how can one see if it's wastegate perhaps releasing at the wrong times? Would the boost pressure show this? If so, I haven't noticed that trend when checking logs in the past (was the first thought was it was loosing boost) but if it would be evaporative purge I guess I can monitor that pid.

There were a few times on the track I did push past kick down but I couldn't tell you which times, but it was maybe 3 times of about 60+WOT occurrences, and I can look into resetting the pedal, but I don't think that's an issue...

Boost maxes at about 13.5psi around 3.6krpm. I'll grab some drives showing boost charts that you might find interesting, as in they don't have a correlation to the tps drop as I mentioned I first thought could be the problem.

I'll read up on checking for boost leak.

Here's some 2nd gear pulls, WOT. They're short and starting rpm varies but I'll release the accelerator pedal when the car switches from 2nd to third (sport mode, manual selection of 2nd so it shifts at redline)
Yellow - calculated load
Green - Throttle Position
Purple - O2 voltage
Pink/Orange - A/F Ratio
Pink/Orange(2nd) - Oxygen sensor 2 (B1)
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      08-13-2015, 08:02 PM   #34
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Here's a few more graphs, interesting correlation, though could be unrelated, is that when boost peaks out there is often the drop in TPS. Maybe the air intake is a problem and the throttle is being cut? but that sounds very strange if that were true.

First graph is from a stop through first, second and third gear and I let off the gas when it switches to fourth. (shift are at where the boost bottoms out) -- See how smooth TPS is once boost goes back down below about 23 psi? I think that's around 4k-7k where it's looking pretty damn good. Rarely do I see it that smooth in third. Base barometric is about 12.7 at my elevation.
Second graph is during a forth gear pull so rpm increase is only about 2k rpm during the WOT, maybe around 3k-5krpm but interestingly the tps doesn't cut out during it, even though boost is pretty high.
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Last edited by edx1; 08-13-2015 at 08:29 PM..
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      08-15-2015, 06:44 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
A boost leak from the charge pipes would cause power loss and throttle position to do wacky things because of the low pressure, but I'm sure it would also cause the idiot light to come on as well.
A couple of weeks ago I split mine (term used by dealership) when I jumped on it and rpms went to max going down the highway. It didn't trigger any lights initially and I drove the car (gingerly) for another 10 miles on the highway with an occasional surge from the car and any throttle applied also came with a low pitch howl and a mushy pedal. About 1/4 mile before I got back to my office I gave it some gas to try and get over, then BING on comes the lights and it goes to half power mode. Once I parked and pulled out the code reader it said "Mass Air Flow too much air in circuit" or something to that effect and I relaxed a bit knowing it wasn't anything major.

That was a split pipe, if someone just had a minor leak in the circuit I could see where it might not be enough to pop a code.

The dealership replaced the charge pipe and I had a business trip to go on the following week (this week) which was a roughly 700 mile drive. Car did fine cruising 85-90 a lot of the way. But even though my car has been running the tune for a bit over 2.5 years, it still shows that stock part isn't really up to cars running increased boost. I'll probably put an aftermarket pipe on it now.
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