My worst fear for the US version - no manual transmission

[davem3fan]

I predict that BMW NA will prevent the US market from getting the manual transmission version.

That will be a crying shame.

[tompak23d]

In Sweden you can´t have the 25i or the 28i with manual transmission. When i purchased my 23d I couldn´t have manual transmission, but from now it is possible... I guess it is based on the market needs...

[manicm]

I guess that most X1 owners on this forum have automatics as well?

I've ordered an auto as well because 1; It's just as economical as the manual on BMW's stats, 2; I often encounter traffic to work where manual driving is not much fun 3; Where clutch wear and tear is just not worth it.

Yes manual is fun, but I've decided an auto just makes more sense. I'll start another thread to gauge manual/auto X1 drivers.

And lastly, my logic is that for those of you who have iDrive/Satnav then a manual is just an accident waiting to happen, in fact I think it's a bad BMW joke to offer iDrive/Satnav with manuals - you must really have to hate yourself to have such combo.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by manicm

I guess that most X1 owners on this forum have automatics as well?

I've ordered an auto as well because 1; It's just as economical as the manual on BMW's stats, 2; I often encounter traffic to work where manual driving is not much fun 3; Where clutch wear and tear is just not worth it.

Yes manual is fun, but I've decided an auto just makes more sense. I'll start another thread to gauge manual/auto X1 drivers.

And lastly, my logic is that for those of you who have iDrive/Satnav then a manual is just an accident waiting to happen, in fact I think it's a bad BMW joke to offer iDrive/Satnav with manuals - you must really have to hate yourself to have such combo.

You might add the safety perspective.

Unless you are really in a bad accident and knocked inconscious, there might be situations where you need to get out of the way quick after a crash. I dare any average, untrained driver who hit, stopped, stalled the engine in 3rd or 4th gear to crank it again, find 1st gear and clear the road in seconds after such a stressing event. With an autobox the engine will not stall, allowing immediate escape manoeuver if necessary.

It happened to me on a poorly-lit patch of the Brussels Ring (urban highway)in 1987. I got hit sideways, and immediately could see more headlights flying at me from over the motorway slope, cars which would have very little chance to avoid my Buick stopped across 2 lanes. My Skylark auto had not stalled despite the impact, and I floored it onto the median milliseconds before other cars flew by and actually hit the car that had hit mine in the first place.

Since then I always favored auto vs standard when I had the opportunity (and the budget) to choose a company car.

[mario486]

Originally Posted by manicm

I guess that most X1 owners on this forum have automatics as well?

I've ordered an auto as well because 1; It's just as economical as the manual on BMW's stats, 2; I often encounter traffic to work where manual driving is not much fun 3; Where clutch wear and tear is just not worth it.

Yes manual is fun, but I've decided an auto just makes more sense. I'll start another thread to gauge manual/auto X1 drivers.

And lastly, my logic is that for those of you who have iDrive/Satnav then a manual is just an accident waiting to happen, in fact I think it's a bad BMW joke to offer iDrive/Satnav with manuals - you must really have to hate yourself to have such combo.

Actually I think in Europe most will opt for the manual as this is a "relatively" cheapish german 4x4. This will be particularly true for the smaller engine varients where adding an auto box can add 10% to the price of the car, which is a lot.

I have it in auto though and do agree with some of your points, 1. Yes its very frugal for an auto, 2. Ditto, I live in a smallish city where congestion is always a problem, a auto is soooo much more relaxed.

Of course the auto can also be driven in Sport (triptronic) mode should you wish to "play" a little.

Saying that I still love a manual like for eg on my Mini, its so much fun.

[Lucky13]

If they somehow switch to the 8 speed auto I would be happy but I also would like a manual. The X3 I had with the 6 speed auto was nothing special.

[Gatekeeper]

Needs DSG !

[mario486]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Needs DSG !

The auto box has DSG, BMW's Triptronic version anyway. Or do you mean the double clutch version of Volkswagen?

[Denny Swift]

Originally Posted by davem3fan

I predict that BMW NA will prevent the US market from getting the manual transmission version.

That will be a crying shame.

That's my biggest fear as well.

Time will tell, but I honestly can't imagine that it will not be available with a manual. Heck the new 5 is available with a manual. I'd guess that the demographics of the people who buy an X1 would be much more likely to get a manual than those who buy a new 5.

There are a lot of "facts" about this car that just don't make sense to me: The idea that BMW is holding it to prevent it from taking sales from the next X3 seem preposterous. The cars are so different that I can't imagine anyone not being able to decide among the two. I can see someone not being able to decide between the X5 and X3.

My second worst fear is that the car will only be available with NAV and hence I-fiddle. However, I strongly suspect that come late 2011 or early 2012, the X1 will be available with both the manual and without the i-fiddle. Fortunately, I can wait that long if I have to (but would rather not.)

The LONG rumored Q3 will likely be available in 2012 but that certainly won’t have a manual. As reprehensible as the Cajun is to me, I would actually consider that if it becomes my only choice to drive a new utility car with a manual. But even that may not be available with a manual. At least Porsche is moving back to toward sanity with an interior layout based on one-button-for-each-function as they have with the Panamera.

[mario486]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

That's my biggest fear as well.

.....

There are a lot of "facts" about this car that just don't make sense to me: The idea that BMW is holding it to prevent it from taking sales from the next X3 seem preposterous. The cars are so different that I can't imagine anyone not being able to decide among the two. I can see someone not being able to decide between the X5 and X3.

...

The LONG rumored Q3 will likely be available in 2012 but that certainly won’t have a manual. As reprehensible as the Cajun is to me, I would actually consider that if it becomes my only choice to drive a new utility car with a manual. But even that may not be available with a manual. At least Porsche is moving back to toward sanity with an interior layout based on one-button-for-each-function as they have with the Panamera.

Hi JohnnyQuest, You make some interesting discussion points.

From a marketing perspective I can sort of understand why BMW are "holding back" on the X1 if that is what they are doing. In my opinion the X1 does not fit with the NA perception of a SUV, it really is a car designed with Europe in mind. I have travelled extensively throughout the USA and Canada and in most States/Provinces the X1 would be regarded as small. There would always be exceptions but I think that the X3 probably suits the NA market more as a SUV, hence BMW pushing it over the X1. I think there was a similar approach with the 1-series.

I also have a slight suspicion that the demand for the X1 so far has been higher than expected. Maybe BMW are waiting for the new factory to come on-line so they can ramp up production.

On the last point, I have driven both Audis and BMW's and I can tell you that BMW always wins hands down when it comes to driving pleasure. I test drove the Q5 before I went for the X1 and although they don't compare directly the Q5 was horrible (the 2.0 diesel). In fact I was shocked at how bad it really was , the worst being the fidgety ride and offset driving position.

Just for interest, why do you say the Cajun is reprehensible?

Anyway, just my take on things.

[manicm]

Yes, I don't think the X1 would be held back in US for fear of eating X3 sales - the X1 is a considerably smaller car both inside and out, and at the same time considerably cheaper.

I think it's precisely because the X1 is so compact, that it might not appeal to US customers - I am albeit generalising here.

[Denny Swift]

Originally Posted by mario486

Hi JohnnyQuest, You make some interesting discussion points.

From a marketing perspective I can sort of understand why BMW are "holding back" on the X1 if that is what they are doing. In my opinion the X1 does not fit with the NA perception of a SUV, it really is a car designed with Europe in mind. I have travelled extensively throughout the USA and Canada and in most States/Provinces the X1 would be regarded as small. There would always be exceptions but I think that the X3 probably suits the NA market more as a SUV, hence BMW pushing it over the X1. I think there was a similar approach with the 1-series.

I also have a slight suspicion that the demand for the X1 so far has been higher than expected. Maybe BMW are waiting for the new factory to come on-line so they can ramp up production.

On the last point, I have driven both Audis and BMW's and I can tell you that BMW always wins hands down when it comes to driving pleasure. I test drove the Q5 before I went for the X1 and although they don't compare directly the Q5 was horrible (the 2.0 diesel). In fact I was shocked at how bad it really was , the worst being the fidgety ride and offset driving position.

Just for interest, why do you say the Cajun is reprehensible?

Anyway, just my take on things.

True about the X1 being small, but that's exactly why I like it so much and why I think others will like it too. There really aren't any other choices. I think it will sell great here. I think there are enough of us who are sick of how big, heavy, and complicated everything is getting (maybe it’s just wishful thinking) . The previous generations of the Subaru Outback and Forester sold like crazy over here. The X1 is in the ball park of being in that size range. The A4 Avant is in that range too and Audi seems to be finally getting close to bringing the A4 Allroad over here. The Audi A3 is small and sells fairly well over here. The GLK is small by American standards but it is selling well. The X1 is a car that has some practicality yet handles like a coupe (almost). That will appeal to a lot of people.

As far as the Cajun (off topic sorry) goes, VW should learn from the mistakes of GM instead of copying them. GM never should have set up divisions that sold the same cars that competed against each other. VW owns so many lines, that they should specialize. Does the world really need a Q7, a Toureg, AND a Cayenne? Audi should be the sporty car division, VW should be the alternative to the Japanese division, Porsche should be the sports car division, Lambo should be the exotic car division, and Bentley should be for those who have more money than taste.

Before VW bought Porsche, Porsche needed to sell their soul and enter the SUV market in order to increase sales. VW can buy that soul back and purify the brand.

[afidel]

The X1 is about the size of the first x3, and the new x3 is about the size of the first x5. I know when I tell people about the fuel economy of the X120d there have been more than a few coworkers that are interested in at least looking at it, not sure how it at all stands out of the crowd of cheaper vehicles with the 3L gas guzzler though.

[afidel]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

Does the world really need a Q7, a Toureg, AND a Cayenne? Audi should be the sporty car division, VW should be the alternative to the Japanese division, Porsche should be the sports car division, Lambo should be the exotic car division, and Bentley should be for those who have more money than taste.

Before VW bought Porsche, Porsche needed to sell their soul and enter the SUV market in order to increase sales. VW can buy that soul back and purify the brand.

I can't see a reason for the Q7 or the Cayenne (though they seem to sell enough of em to the rich soccer moms around here).
Also the Continental GT Convertible is pure sex on wheels, second best looking convertible after the Carrera GT.

[Denny Swift]

Originally Posted by afidel

I can't see a reason for the Q7 or the Cayenne (though they seem to sell enough of em to the rich soccer moms around here).
Also the Continental GT Convertible is pure sex on wheels, second best looking convertible after the Carrera GT.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find both of them down right ugly. I've never liked any version of the 911 in convertible form. Neither is the automotive counterpart of what I'd consider a sex partner. Ok maybe the Carrera if she talked to me really nice, had a great personality, and liked to scuba dive. Even then, I'd probably regret it in the morning.

[afidel]

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find both of them down right ugly. I've never liked any version of the 911 in convertible form. Neither is the automotive counterpart of what I'd consider a sex partner. Ok maybe the Carrera if she talked to me really nice, had a great personality, and liked to scuba dive. Even then, I'd probably regret it in the morning.

Have you ever seen one close up, our CEO got one of the first 10 Continentals in the US and it really is an incredible looking car in person. The Carrera GT likewise looks much better in person than it does online.

[DUH CAR]

Originally Posted by afidel

Have you ever seen one close up, our CEO got one of the first 10 Continentals in the US and it really is an incredible looking car in person. The Carrera GT likewise looks much better in person than it does online.

[mario486]

Originally Posted by DUH CAR

And back on topic......You could buy 5 of my X1's for the price of the Bentley Not exactly real world.

[DUH CAR]

Originally Posted by mario486

And back on topic......You could buy 5 of my X1's for the price of the Bentley Not exactly real world.

lol

[mario486]

Originally Posted by DUH CAR

lol

?

[Jason]

This may have changed or still yet change, but as of a couple of months ago, my understanding was that the U.S. spec X1 will not be receiving a manual gearbox option.

[Denny Swift]

Originally Posted by Jason

This may have changed or still yet change, but as of a couple of months ago, my understanding was that the U.S. spec X1 will not be receiving a manual gearbox option.

If that's true, I'm out. I'll believe that the manual may not be available with the 1st US run, but I can't believe it won't eventually be available.

They should at least make the manual available as an option. I'd pay to get a manual if I have to, but I won't pay for an X1 if I can't shift it myself. The previous 6 offered a manual as a no-cost option. Maybe they will go that route with the X1.

The whole point of this car is that it creates a new segment: it will be a small crossover with an emphasis on performance. It is supposed to perform nearly at the coupe level but provide significantly more utilitarianism than a coupe or sedan does. It's for the person who does not want to sacrifice performance but needs at least some room to haul things. With such an emphasis on performance and the fact that it's a BMW, I just cannot imagine that they won't offer it in the US with a manual.