Runflats, am I screwed?

manicm · 12-17-2010, 03:02 PM

Ok, just ordered my X1 today, but 17" runflats are standard and BMW won't change them.

Also, they said when time comes for replacement if choose standard tyres my Motorplan (5 yr service plan) might be invalidated.

I'm a bit wary of this and it could be a dealbreaker for me esp. since I heard runflats don't last as long?

What do you ladies and gentlemen think?

mario486 · 12-17-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manicm

Ok, just ordered my X1 today, but 17" runflats are standard and BMW won't change them.

Also, they said when time comes for replacement if choose standard tyres my Motorplan (5 yr service plan) might be invalidated.

I'm a bit wary of this and it could be a dealbreaker for me esp. since I heard runflats don't last as long?

What do you ladies and gentlemen think?

Hi Manicm, don't see how they can say that as the base X1 in Europe comes with non-runflats as standard. The car is therefore certainly "certified" to run with them. Did they give you a technical reason why? Why do you not want RF? As far as I know RF's last just as long as normal tyres and its really down to the compound. Pirelli are for eg traditionally softer than Goodyears.

Speak to BMW SA head office and see what they say.

manicm · 12-18-2010, 01:53 AM

Not against runflats as such - I would just be terrified if I have to replace them every year

Gatekeeper · 12-18-2010, 02:45 AM

R/F are not "bad" tires, and don't wear out faster or slower than regular ones. They are just freaking expensive to change, require specially-adapted rims, will deter many a mechanic who doesn't have the proper equipment to change one, and overall in many motorists opinion including mine, are not worth the hassle.

Now, R/F are NOT standard in Europeon most X1 models, and as I wrote in another topic, BMW is even pulling away from imposing R/F on every single model.

So you are not screwed. If you bought the vehicle, you will just have to toss in a bigger amount of greenbacks for new tires.

Your options seen from here :

1. If they come as standard on your X1 version, you could probably reverse to standard tires if your dealer is willing to swap rims + tires before delivery. But if he charges you more than a wheel swap, it's probably not worth it.

2. Bite the bullet, and when your X1 tires are worn out, change for regular tires (You can install non RF on RF wheels, but notthe other way around). It might be an issue though the day you have to present the vehicle for DOT inspection (That is, if you keep it that long)

3. Bite the bullet (bis), get new reg tires immediately, have them installed, keep the RF aside for when you resale the X1 or have a DOT inspection,which ever comes first.

Hoping this helps !!

manicm · 12-18-2010, 08:46 AM

Here in SA they're standard on the X1 - even on the standard 17" wheels I've ordered. And goflats are not an option when new - I'll check with other dealers.

These are the same 17" rims sold on X1s everywhere i.e. SA2S7 Star-spoke styling 317, - with goflats included, and don't affect the TPWS apparently.

What I will do, is that when change up time comes, I will put my foot down with my dealer that he let me put on goflats.

But I'll compare runflat to goflat prices and decide when the time comes.

mario486 · 12-18-2010, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

R/F are not "bad" tires, and don't wear out faster or slower than regular ones. They are just freaking expensive to change, require specially-adapted rims, will deter many a mechanic who doesn't have the proper equipment to change one, and overall in many motorists opinion including mine, are not worth the hassle.

Now, R/F are NOT standard in Europeon most X1 models, and as I wrote in another topic, BMW is even pulling away from imposing R/F on every single model.

So you are not screwed. If you bought the vehicle, you will just have to toss in a bigger amount of greenbacks for new tires.

Your options seen from here :

1. If they come as standard on your X1 version, you could probably reverse to standard tires if your dealer is willing to swap rims + tires before delivery. But if he charges you more than a wheel swap, it's probably not worth it.

2. Bite the bullet, and when your X1 tires are worn out, change for regular tires (You can install non RF on RF wheels, but notthe other way around). It might be an issue though the day you have to present the vehicle for DOT inspection (That is, if you keep it that long)

3. Bite the bullet (bis), get new reg tires immediately, have them installed, keep the RF aside for when you resale the X1 or have a DOT inspection,which ever comes first.

Hoping this helps !!

Mmm, I agree that RF's wear no faster in my opinion than normal tyres. As I said it depends on the manufacturer/compound etc. I have had RF's on a 3-series a few years ago and also now on my Mini and X1. The X1 is still too new to comment but on the other two my tyre wear was "normal". As far as cost is concerned they only cost about 15% more to replace in the UK than normal tyres, again I cannot comment on costs elewhere. My only critism of them is that they are slightly harder riding than normal tyres. I think we are on the 5th generation of RF and the ride quality has improved hugely.

However, there is one apect of RFs thats rarely mentioned and thats the safety aspect. One of the most dangerous situations you can be in is a high speed blowout, particularly in a bend. RF's are designed not to come off the rim and still give you a measure of control. I would hate to be in that situation on non-RF's.

Manicm, I have spent many years in SA and the added comfort of being able to continue driving on a flat while travelling through some of the less savoury areas, particularly at night, alone make the RFs a good idea.

Gatekeeper · 12-18-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mario486

Mmm, I agree that RF's wear no faster in my opinion than normal tyres. As I said it depends on the manufacturer/compound etc. I have had RF's on a 3-series a few years ago and also now on my Mini and X1. The X1 is still too new to comment but on the other two my tyre wear was "normal". As far as cost is concerned they only cost about 15% more to replace in the UK than normal tyres, again I cannot comment on costs elewhere. My only critism of them is that they are slightly harder riding than normal tyres. I think we are on the 5th generation of RF and the ride quality has improved hugely.

However, there is one apect of RFs thats rarely mentioned and thats the safety aspect. One of the most dangerous situations you can be in is a high speed blowout, particularly in a bend. RF's are designed not to come off the rim and still give you a measure of control. I would hate to be in that situation on non-RF's.

Manicm, I have spent many years in SA and the added comfort of being able to continue driving on a flat while travelling through some of the less savoury areas, particularly at night, alone make the RFs a good idea.

Good point.
I had not considered that angle.

BigDave · 12-19-2010, 07:36 AM

Picked up my X1 yesterday (will post pics shortly) and learned something new about RF. If you get a puncture they cannot be repaired. They must be replaced. One of the reasons I took out the tyre insurance with BMW (costs £299 for 3 years) although my car has non RF's. Had bad experience with my RAV4. Sidewalls destroyed on 2 tyres in 2 weeks. very expensive.

manicm · 12-19-2010, 07:54 AM

That's the only thing I'm worried about the RFs - how kindly they take to speed humps etc.

Gatekeeper · 12-19-2010, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDave

Picked up my X1 yesterday (will post pics shortly) and learned something new about RF. If you get a puncture they cannot be repaired. They must be replaced. One of the reasons I took out the tyre insurance with BMW (costs £299 for 3 years) although my car has non RF's. Had bad experience with my RAV4. Sidewalls destroyed on 2 tyres in 2 weeks. very expensive.

Looking forward to

aris · 12-19-2010, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDave

Picked up my X1 yesterday (will post pics shortly) and learned something new about RF. If you get a puncture they cannot be repaired. They must be replaced. One of the reasons I took out the tyre insurance with BMW (costs £299 for 3 years) although my car has non RF's. Had bad experience with my RAV4. Sidewalls destroyed on 2 tyres in 2 weeks. very expensive.

the RFL can be repaired if you have the puncture kit

(ex. BMW KIT) for puncture, otherwise you can go for 240km of distance , in top speed of
80km and then you replace the tire

...acording to my dealer

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...ID=71100413439

http://www.amazon.com/BMW-Genuine-Mo.../dp/B000P5JO5M

120 euro cost in Greece

congrats for the beauty X1 !!!!!!!!!!!

Gatekeeper · 12-19-2010, 09:57 AM

Well, that makes for very expensive consequences to a flat tire.

Perhaps I was lucky, but I always had very good tires on my various company cars, and never got a flat I couldn't fix with a can of foam. Neither did I get a blown tire, ever.
The only time in years I had to actually change the wheel on the side of the road was when when I hit a curb to avoid another car that suddenly swayed in my lane. The tire's side just got torn against the curb and went down in less than a hundred meters. Not even sure an R/F would have sustained such a hit.

So all things considered, in our "civilized" neighborhoods, not sure a set of R/F is worth the extra cost as long as a car is equipped with good regular tires.

Xeins · 12-20-2010, 08:59 AM

My SDrive20d has 18" Pirelli P7 Run Flat tyres and Sport Suspencion. Not recomended if you drive most of the time arround rough drive way's or in city old streets. Regarding the price they are considerable most expensive than normal tyres but you have to think on the security issue too.

Regards

Denny Swift · 12-20-2010, 10:31 AM

I bought my Z4 in 2003. Within one year I had a bubble in one of the tires. Although the roads are not that bad where I drive, evidently impact to a pothole with low profile runflats does a lot more damage than the same impact does to a standard tire. I replaced that tire with a new runflat. I suffered for another year and finally threw the runflats away for conventional tires. At approximately ½ the price I got tires with far superior handling and steering feel. I wore those tires out and replaced them again with conventional high-performance tires that handle even better than the previous ones. With the runflat tires, the Z4 tramlined so badly and had such poor steering feel that I was going to sell the car. With the runflat tires the steering is immeasurably better. That car never should have been sold with the runflats IMHO. Doing so was a design flaw.

I bought my 335 in 2007. Within one year, I had a bubble in one of those tires as well. I got rid of all four tires and put on conventional tires. The car handles and rides better and the steering feedback is much better now. However, the difference between the RFTs and conventional tires on the 335 is nowhere as pronounced as it was on the Z4.

In the many years I’ve had conventional tires on the BMWs, I’ve never had a tire bubble. And the bubbles that I noticed in the RFTs were on the outside edges of the tires. They could form just as easily on the inside edges and not be detectable which could lead to a dangerous situation. Unknowingly driving with damaged tires could certainly lead to a safety issue.
I keep a tire plug kit and a compressor in each car and don’t worry about flats. At first, I struggled with the idea of getting rid of runflats, but for me their disadvantages far outweigh the advantages of conventional tires. I’ll never go back to RFTs.

I don’t see how anyone could say that it’s illegal to install standard tires on a car that came with RFTs. If the wheels can accommodate conventional tires just as well as any rim can, then how could it possibly be dangerous? Is there is a law against driving without a spare tire? However, there are plenty of laws that make no sense.

Other things being equal, I dislike RFTs so much that I would buy a car that comes with convention tires over one that only comes with RFTs. If Audi for example offered a car that I liked as much as the X1, I’d probably buy that for the lack of RFTs alone. However, since they don’t, I’ll buy an X1 and switch to standard tires. IMHO BMW made a serious mistake by deciding to offer their cars with one tire option only. They need to admit their mistake and either make RFTs optional or do away with them altogether. If buyers have a choice, the whole debate vanishes. What’s wrong with giving customers a choice with tires? Since M cars do not come with RFTs or a spare, there is obviously no law requiring a spare.

Gatekeeper · 12-20-2010, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

I don’t see how anyone could say that it’s illegal to install standard tires on a car that came with RFTs. If the wheels can accommodate conventional tires just as well as any rim can, then how could it possibly be dangerous? Is there is a law against driving without a spare tire? However, there are plenty of laws that make no sense.

Other things being equal, I dislike RFTs so much that I would buy a car that comes with convention tires over one that only comes with RFTs. If Audi for example offered a car that I liked as much as the X1, I’d probably buy that for the lack of RFTs alone. However, since they don’t, I’ll buy an X1 and switch to standard tires. IMHO BMW made a serious mistake by deciding to offer their cars with one tire option only. They need to admit their mistake and either make RFTs optional or do away with them altogether. If buyers have a choice, the whole debate vanishes. What’s wrong with giving customers a choice with tires? Since M cars do not come with RFTs or a spare, there is obviously no law requiring a spare.

Hi Johnny,
Nobody said it was illegal.

What was said :

_ If leased, the lease company will require the same type of tires on the car as when it was sold new, and will charge you for a new set of R/F if it is not so equipped.

_ Most DOT / MOT / TUV inspections will require that the vehicle when presented to inspection is equipped with tires approved by the manufacturer on the given model. In a country where X1s are sold with R/F only... You know what I'm driving at.

_ BMW IS reconsidering selling cars with R/F as standard.

But I agree 100% with the rest of your analysis. After an unpleasant experience with a leased Mini Clubman and R/Fs, I unhesitantly ordered the X1 with standard rubbers.

manicm · 12-20-2010, 12:40 PM

I guess I'm not gonna lose sleep over it right now

it's out of my hands anyway - it's standard equipment on the X1 and we have no choice.

Replacement time I will then see...

Anyway I've got a loooong 3 months apprx. till I get my car

so I might disappear from the forum till then

Gatekeeper · 12-20-2010, 12:44 PM

That's gonna be a long three month indeed !

Hey, come back whenever you feel like it !!

Denny Swift · 12-20-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

Hi Johnny,
Nobody said it was illegal.

What was said :

_ If leased, the lease company will require the same type of tires on the car as when it was sold new, and will charge you for a new set of R/F if it is not so equipped.

_ Most DOT / MOT / TUV inspections will require that the vehicle when presented to inspection is equipped with tires approved by the manufacturer on the given model. In a country where X1s are sold with R/F only... You know what I'm driving at.

_ BMW IS reconsidering selling cars with R/F as standard.

But I agree 100% with the rest of your analysis. After an unpleasant experience with a leased Mini Clubman and R/Fs, I unhesitantly ordered the X1 with standard rubbers.

Ok, I read it again. It must have been the Greek, Scottish, and French accents that threw me off the first time!

Can you send me a link that says BMW is reconsidering the runflats? That's good news!

mario486 · 12-20-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyQuest

Ok, I read it again. It must have been the Greek, Scottish, and French accents that threw me off the first time!

Can you send me a link that says BMW is reconsidering the runflats? That's good news!

I say again, non-RF are available as a standard tyre on the 17" wheels in the UK. I fully accept that this may not be the case in every country but as they are available here as a factory fitted option it must obviously be an existing BMW standard. If you do not believe me contact BMW Customer Services direct and they will tell you the same thing.

Just for the record I have a completely different experience with RF's and are happy with them. Oh, and before I forget my Winter Tyres were fitted by BMW UK on Saturday and ....wait for it....they are non-RFs

Dirk.xd · 12-21-2010, 12:38 AM

On my last two BMW's I made an arrangement with my dealer to exchange the RFT tires with non-RFT at no charge. They can sell the original RFT's as a new tires, so it was no problem for them.

I also experienced a sudden and early (500 km) bubble on one of my non-RFT tires, so this is certainly not an exclusive RFT issue.

Gatekeeper · 12-21-2010, 03:18 AM

Johnny >>> Aye can speek Englische gooder zan you !!

I read the info about BMW and RFs on a French forum... I'll try to dig it up for ya alright.

manicm · 12-21-2010, 04:59 AM

Mario, yes, but having lived here I'm sure you'd agree with me that generally consumers are ripped off in SA. I mean this must be the only country in the world where Climate Control is optional on the X1! Mine will just have normal aircon with microfilter.

I should perhaps speak to another dealer, I think I will this week, but here RF's are defintely standard on the X1 (SA configurator has no such option), and my dealer told me that standards are not an option.

But I will speak to a few more dealers to find out. It's definitely sinister of BMW SA not to offer standards.

Anyway I'll have the standard suspension so I don't think I'll lose sleep over it.

12-17-2010, 03:02 PM	#1
manicm First Lieutenant 11 Rep 375 Posts Drives: X1 sDrive18i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SA iTrader: (0)	Runflats, am I screwed? Ok, just ordered my X1 today, but 17" runflats are standard and BMW won't change them. Also, they said when time comes for replacement if choose standard tyres my Motorplan (5 yr service plan) might be invalidated. I'm a bit wary of this and it could be a dealbreaker for me esp. since I heard runflats don't last as long? What do you ladies and gentlemen think?
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12-18-2010, 01:53 AM	#3
manicm First Lieutenant 11 Rep 375 Posts Drives: X1 sDrive18i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SA iTrader: (0)	Not against runflats as such - I would just be terrified if I have to replace them every year
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12-18-2010, 02:45 AM	#4
Gatekeeper Captain 11 Rep 630 Posts Drives: BMW 320d Security Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: France iTrader: (0)	R/F are not "bad" tires, and don't wear out faster or slower than regular ones. They are just freaking expensive to change, require specially-adapted rims, will deter many a mechanic who doesn't have the proper equipment to change one, and overall in many motorists opinion including mine, are not worth the hassle. Now, R/F are NOT standard in Europeon most X1 models, and as I wrote in another topic, BMW is even pulling away from imposing R/F on every single model. So you are not screwed. If you bought the vehicle, you will just have to toss in a bigger amount of greenbacks for new tires. Your options seen from here : 1. If they come as standard on your X1 version, you could probably reverse to standard tires if your dealer is willing to swap rims + tires before delivery. But if he charges you more than a wheel swap, it's probably not worth it. 2. Bite the bullet, and when your X1 tires are worn out, change for regular tires (You can install non RF on RF wheels, but notthe other way around). It might be an issue though the day you have to present the vehicle for DOT inspection (That is, if you keep it that long) 3. Bite the bullet (bis), get new reg tires immediately, have them installed, keep the RF aside for when you resale the X1 or have a DOT inspection,which ever comes first. Hoping this helps !! __________________ "Let our manners distinguish us from our enemies, as much as the cause we are engaged in"
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12-18-2010, 08:46 AM	#5
manicm First Lieutenant 11 Rep 375 Posts Drives: X1 sDrive18i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SA iTrader: (0)	Here in SA they're standard on the X1 - even on the standard 17" wheels I've ordered. And goflats are not an option when new - I'll check with other dealers. These are the same 17" rims sold on X1s everywhere i.e. SA2S7 Star-spoke styling 317, - with goflats included, and don't affect the TPWS apparently. What I will do, is that when change up time comes, I will put my foot down with my dealer that he let me put on goflats. But I'll compare runflat to goflat prices and decide when the time comes. Last edited by manicm; 12-18-2010 at 08:52 AM..
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12-19-2010, 07:36 AM	#8
BigDave Certified 6 Rep 61 Posts Drives: X3 20d MSport Auto Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Livingston, Scotland iTrader: (0)	Picked up my X1 yesterday (will post pics shortly) and learned something new about RF. If you get a puncture they cannot be repaired. They must be replaced. One of the reasons I took out the tyre insurance with BMW (costs £299 for 3 years) although my car has non RF's. Had bad experience with my RAV4. Sidewalls destroyed on 2 tyres in 2 weeks. very expensive.
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12-19-2010, 07:54 AM	#9
manicm First Lieutenant 11 Rep 375 Posts Drives: X1 sDrive18i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SA iTrader: (0)	That's the only thing I'm worried about the RFs - how kindly they take to speed humps etc.
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12-19-2010, 09:57 AM	#12
Gatekeeper Captain 11 Rep 630 Posts Drives: BMW 320d Security Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: France iTrader: (0)	Well, that makes for very expensive consequences to a flat tire. Perhaps I was lucky, but I always had very good tires on my various company cars, and never got a flat I couldn't fix with a can of foam. Neither did I get a blown tire, ever. The only time in years I had to actually change the wheel on the side of the road was when when I hit a curb to avoid another car that suddenly swayed in my lane. The tire's side just got torn against the curb and went down in less than a hundred meters. Not even sure an R/F would have sustained such a hit. So all things considered, in our "civilized" neighborhoods, not sure a set of R/F is worth the extra cost as long as a car is equipped with good regular tires. __________________ "Let our manners distinguish us from our enemies, as much as the cause we are engaged in"
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12-20-2010, 08:59 AM	#13
Xeins Private First Class 9 Rep 106 Posts Drives: X1 S20d Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Portugal iTrader: (0)	My SDrive20d has 18" Pirelli P7 Run Flat tyres and Sport Suspencion. Not recomended if you drive most of the time arround rough drive way's or in city old streets. Regarding the price they are considerable most expensive than normal tyres but you have to think on the security issue too. Regards
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12-20-2010, 10:31 AM	#14
Denny Swift Private First Class 12 Rep 103 Posts Drives: '22 992GTS; '20 Porsche Spyder Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Pennsylvania iTrader: (0)	I bought my Z4 in 2003. Within one year I had a bubble in one of the tires. Although the roads are not that bad where I drive, evidently impact to a pothole with low profile runflats does a lot more damage than the same impact does to a standard tire. I replaced that tire with a new runflat. I suffered for another year and finally threw the runflats away for conventional tires. At approximately ½ the price I got tires with far superior handling and steering feel. I wore those tires out and replaced them again with conventional high-performance tires that handle even better than the previous ones. With the runflat tires, the Z4 tramlined so badly and had such poor steering feel that I was going to sell the car. With the runflat tires the steering is immeasurably better. That car never should have been sold with the runflats IMHO. Doing so was a design flaw. I bought my 335 in 2007. Within one year, I had a bubble in one of those tires as well. I got rid of all four tires and put on conventional tires. The car handles and rides better and the steering feedback is much better now. However, the difference between the RFTs and conventional tires on the 335 is nowhere as pronounced as it was on the Z4. In the many years I’ve had conventional tires on the BMWs, I’ve never had a tire bubble. And the bubbles that I noticed in the RFTs were on the outside edges of the tires. They could form just as easily on the inside edges and not be detectable which could lead to a dangerous situation. Unknowingly driving with damaged tires could certainly lead to a safety issue. I keep a tire plug kit and a compressor in each car and don’t worry about flats. At first, I struggled with the idea of getting rid of runflats, but for me their disadvantages far outweigh the advantages of conventional tires. I’ll never go back to RFTs. I don’t see how anyone could say that it’s illegal to install standard tires on a car that came with RFTs. If the wheels can accommodate conventional tires just as well as any rim can, then how could it possibly be dangerous? Is there is a law against driving without a spare tire? However, there are plenty of laws that make no sense. Other things being equal, I dislike RFTs so much that I would buy a car that comes with convention tires over one that only comes with RFTs. If Audi for example offered a car that I liked as much as the X1, I’d probably buy that for the lack of RFTs alone. However, since they don’t, I’ll buy an X1 and switch to standard tires. IMHO BMW made a serious mistake by deciding to offer their cars with one tire option only. They need to admit their mistake and either make RFTs optional or do away with them altogether. If buyers have a choice, the whole debate vanishes. What’s wrong with giving customers a choice with tires? Since M cars do not come with RFTs or a spare, there is obviously no law requiring a spare.
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12-20-2010, 12:40 PM	#16
manicm First Lieutenant 11 Rep 375 Posts Drives: X1 sDrive18i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SA iTrader: (0)	I guess I'm not gonna lose sleep over it right now it's out of my hands anyway - it's standard equipment on the X1 and we have no choice. Replacement time I will then see... Anyway I've got a loooong 3 months apprx. till I get my car so I might disappear from the forum till then
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12-20-2010, 12:44 PM	#17
Gatekeeper Captain 11 Rep 630 Posts Drives: BMW 320d Security Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: France iTrader: (0)	That's gonna be a long three month indeed ! Hey, come back whenever you feel like it !! __________________ "Let our manners distinguish us from our enemies, as much as the cause we are engaged in"
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12-21-2010, 12:38 AM	#20
Dirk.xd New Member 4 Rep 19 Posts Drives: X1 xDrive 23d Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Leuven iTrader: (0)	On my last two BMW's I made an arrangement with my dealer to exchange the RFT tires with non-RFT at no charge. They can sell the original RFT's as a new tires, so it was no problem for them. I also experienced a sudden and early (500 km) bubble on one of my non-RFT tires, so this is certainly not an exclusive RFT issue.
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12-21-2010, 03:18 AM	#21
Gatekeeper Captain 11 Rep 630 Posts Drives: BMW 320d Security Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: France iTrader: (0)	Johnny >>> Aye can speek Englische gooder zan you !! I read the info about BMW and RFs on a French forum... I'll try to dig it up for ya alright. __________________ "Let our manners distinguish us from our enemies, as much as the cause we are engaged in"
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12-21-2010, 04:59 AM	#22
manicm First Lieutenant 11 Rep 375 Posts Drives: X1 sDrive18i Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: SA iTrader: (0)	Mario, yes, but having lived here I'm sure you'd agree with me that generally consumers are ripped off in SA. I mean this must be the only country in the world where Climate Control is optional on the X1! Mine will just have normal aircon with microfilter. I should perhaps speak to another dealer, I think I will this week, but here RF's are defintely standard on the X1 (SA configurator has no such option), and my dealer told me that standards are not an option. But I will speak to a few more dealers to find out. It's definitely sinister of BMW SA not to offer standards. Anyway I'll have the standard suspension so I don't think I'll lose sleep over it. Last edited by manicm; 12-21-2010 at 05:05 AM..
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