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      06-02-2015, 04:35 PM   #1
PleaseAdvise
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How do you pick wheels/suspension for Track/autocrossing

I recently joined my local chapter of bmwcca and I am wondering how do you actually pick a setup for tires/wheels, and suspension. The wheels and tires don't really have to be streetable as much as the suspension does. It should be noted that this setup for suspension will also have to make a trip from NH to AZ, with a possiblilty of towing. So being removable is key as well. I have a 2014 xdrive 2.8, so I see alot of choices out there. Also should I have any concerns about brakes overheating etc? Also if so should I be considering upgrading the brakes even if its just pads? Even in a light track/autocross situation?

Dont be afraid to tell me this is a poor choice but please tell me why. I understand xdrive isn't going to win me any awards on the track and if that's what I wanted I should have went sdrive or with a different car. I never intended to want to do this for my car but it kinda just happened and now I want to make the best of it! This will probably be my daily UNTIL I make it to Arizona, which when I get there I fully intend on getting a RWD daily beater.
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Last edited by PleaseAdvise; 06-02-2015 at 04:36 PM.. Reason: So many questions.
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      06-02-2015, 05:41 PM   #2
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Honestly, a good option for auto crossing would be a Miata. You can buy them cheap, parts are cheap and they're really good for doing stuff like auto crossing.

Auto crossing is very hard on your car, especially the brakes as you'll be buried on both pedals at the same time quite often.

The X1 is a poor choice because of it's weight, and the 28i with xDrive won't be much fun, You can turn off the nannies, except the xDrive system is so intrusive that you'll never really get to the potential of the car without becoming frustrated with it. There are guys here that track their X1's with success, but I think auto xing would be too much for the heft of the X1 and it's tiny brakes.

My opinion, get a Miata and throw decent suspension and tires on it and get a roll bar. Use the X1 as a daily, it's never going to worth anything so you may as well enjoy it instead of buying a beater for daily use.
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      06-03-2015, 07:03 AM   #3
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Autox is not hard on brakes, at all, when compared to tracking. Keeping brakes under the car on a road course with the relatively small rotors/high weight of the N20 X1 will be something he'll have to be mindful of. On an autox? No problem. He won't even fade the stock pads, in all likelihood.
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      06-03-2015, 09:10 AM   #4
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My X1 s28i is the best car I've ever driven on street or track, and I also drive a Mazda RX8 which has similar suspension to Miata.

Your X28i is supposed to have better cornering than s28i, but mine can corner sharp, and brakes don't fade on track although it doesn't seem to be able to lock which is actually a good thing.

I've tried turning the DSC off, but I think It's better with it on, and drive as smooth as possible.

With M sport the suspension is about as tight as any streetable car needs.

Just go to AutoX and have fun.

It's a lot about the tires and air pressure so read reviews at Tire rack, etc.
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      06-03-2015, 09:15 AM   #5
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I have the Pirelli P7 Summer performance tires which are the best I ever had on any car, since I've never used Michelin PSS which will be next.

In my 225/45r18 and 255/40r18 size I run about 38 psi front hot and 40 psi rear hot, and feel like that is about best grip, wear, and street ride.

On AutoX put 38 and 40; you'll be close and it wouldn't raise temp from heat much.
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      06-03-2015, 11:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
My X1 s28i is the best car I've ever driven on street or track, and I also drive a Mazda RX8 which has similar suspension to Miata.

Your X28i is supposed to have better cornering than s28i, but mine can corner sharp, and brakes don't fade on track although it doesn't seem to be able to lock which is actually a good thing.

I've tried turning the DSC off, but I think It's better with it on, and drive as smooth as possible.

With M sport the suspension is about as tight as any streetable car needs.

Just go to AutoX and have fun.

It's a lot about the tires and air pressure so read reviews at Tire rack, etc.
You just said an X1 is better on a track than an RX8. And after posting that, how can anyone take what you say seriously?

Yeah, your heavy, understeering mommy mobile is better on the track than one of the best handling sports cars made in the last 10 years.
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      06-03-2015, 12:06 PM   #7
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And that DSC is better on? Lol
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      06-03-2015, 01:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
You just said an X1 is better on a track than an RX8. And after posting that, how can anyone take what you say seriously?

Yeah, your heavy, understeering mommy mobile is better on the track than one of the best handling sports cars made in the last 10 years.
I got the s28i, and I have a RX8 which I've both tracked. Do any of you have both to compare?

Yeah, the X1 is 700# heavier, but has 258# torque vs RX8 with claimed 159#.

The RX8 is very smooth, balanced, and easy to drive, but you have to drive like a go Kart to not lose speed on a curvy short track.

You can drive the X1 sloppy, and use power to make it look good.

My X1 will top out about 120 mph on a track that the RX8 will get about 110.

I said the X1 was the best car for me on a track, and I own a RX8; don't change my words and complain.

If you don't know what you're talking about hold your insults.
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      06-03-2015, 01:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
And that DSC is better on? Lol
If you drive well, the DSC won't come on, but if you take it off with the open differential one tire will spin wildly.

Maybe my X1 s28i M Sport Euro Delivery got the special super secret tuning mod, and they didn't tell me.
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      06-03-2015, 02:07 PM   #10
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Upgrading swaybars would be the first suggestion to handle the tall body. Springs/struts next, but then you start to degrade ride quality.

For wheels and tires, the X1's wheelwells are roomy, go for a square setup to help with the inherent xdrive understeer. 18x9's all around with 245s or 255's are a good start.
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      06-03-2015, 02:28 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
If you drive well, the DSC won't come on, but if you take it off with the open differential one tire will spin wildly.

Maybe my X1 s28i M Sport Euro Delivery got the special super secret tuning mod, and they didn't tell me.
If you drive fast, the DSC will come on. I have about 20 track days on the X1 and have tracked it with DSC on and off, with the stock open diff and with a modified Wavetrac lsd.

Turning DSC off is worth about 3-4 seconds on a 2 minute course.
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      06-03-2015, 02:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webspoke View Post
Upgrading swaybars would be the first suggestion to handle the tall body. Springs/struts next, but then you start to degrade ride quality.

For wheels and tires, the X1's wheelwells are roomy, go for a square setup to help with the inherent xdrive understeer. 18x9's all around with 245s or 255's are a good start.
Cool thank you! Also I really didnt mean to start a giant flamewar xD

Paradoxical how did you pick your suspension/wheel/tire setup? I know your x1 has turned into the monster that lurks under Porsche owners beds but Im sure you have some good input.
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      06-03-2015, 02:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
If you drive fast, the DSC will come on. I have about 20 track days on the X1 and have tracked it with DSC on and off, with the stock open diff and with a modified Wavetrac lsd.

Turning DSC off is worth about 3-4 seconds on a 2 minute course.
Ok, I'll try that again, especially when I get the next set of tires, but I'm only tracking to enjoy driving at the limit.

Once I get the tires pressures to where I like them on 3-4 runs I'm done anyway.

I won't run on a super hot day or build excess heat into the car all day.

I'm sure the Wavetrac Isd would be nice, since rear traction is tricky even with 255/40r18 P7's.
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      06-03-2015, 07:47 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
I got the s28i, and I have a RX8 which I've both tracked. Do any of you have both to compare?

Yeah, the X1 is 700# heavier, but has 258# torque vs RX8 with claimed 159#.

The RX8 is very smooth, balanced, and easy to drive, but you have to drive like a go Kart to not lose speed on a curvy short track.

You can drive the X1 sloppy, and use power to make it look good.

My X1 will top out about 120 mph on a track that the RX8 will get about 110.

I said the X1 was the best car for me on a track, and I own a RX8; don't change my words and complain.

If you don't know what you're talking about hold your insults.
Hold my insults? Don't give advice if you don't know what you're talking about. Power (or torque) or straightaway speed has nothing to do with what makes a car handle better.

Yes, I've extensively tracked an RX8 (as well as an S2k, my E46 M3, my 135, and my X1). I've been a PCA instructor for about 10 years now.

All cars have to be driven at their limit (like a Go kart (sic)...what the hell does that even mean...inferring a momentum car?) to not lose speed on "curvy" tracks. That statement makes no sense at all. Even with more power to "make up" for bad driving, bad driving still hurts lap times.

And no, driven at the limit, DSC will SIGNIFICANTLY hinder your lap times. Inferring that if you "drive properly", your traction control will not come on is the completely ridiculous and down right stupid. That's why people laughed at you for saying it. No competent driver would run a faster lap time in an X1 DSC on vs. off. Any driving at or near the limit will have it cutting power left and right. Driving such that it never comes on means you're not even approaching the limits of the car, which means you're in no position to comment on a car's handling at the track. Even my wife is more than a few seconds faster on average with the DSC off in any of our cars around our local tracks.

Great, your X1 is a better track car for you, vs. some of the best track cars made in recent years. You've got to be kidding me.

Even a very, very average driver would demolish an N20 X1 with an RX8 around your average road course. Despite what you say, the RX8 is faster in a straight line (hell, call it equal). and it handles about 100 times better. So what are you talking about? That you're more comfortable driving a high, softly-sprung quasi SUV vs. a real sports car? OK...

Last edited by PrematureApex; 06-03-2015 at 07:57 PM..
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      06-03-2015, 08:54 PM   #15
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My RX8 has the Yukon coil conversion, but nowhere near the power.

Most healthy RX8's dyno only 170-180 horsepower and 130 torque which is almost half torque of N20 engine.

The RX8 you have in mind must have turbo or supercharger.

I pass guys in BMW's, Corvette's, and vipers all the time in both cars because they are slow drivers, but track day is not a race, and cars are never equal even of the same make.

As for DSC, after putting 12mm spacers on front I have to work to get it to go off, and I'm not working that hard at the track.

It's for fun, not wearing and working on car, or buying racing tires to convince people they are racers.

Dont tell me not to give advice, Dick.

Your advice is no better.





I never said it "Handles better than a Mazda RX8", Dick.

Last edited by 0w40X1; 06-05-2015 at 06:49 AM..
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      06-04-2015, 10:26 AM   #16
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Hey if we could go ahead and stop dick measuring, name calling and just get advice that would be great. Im happy to see a debate but when it stops getting constructive and has potential to get locked thats when I need this to stop. So please back on topic mkay!
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      06-04-2015, 12:51 PM   #17
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Apex is trying to keep you on the right track (pun intended of course).

Having spent quite a bit of time behind the wheel of a mild RX8, I am surprised to read what 0w40 had to say.

A mildly prepped RX8 is wicked fast on the track.

IMHO take a long hard look at Paradoxical's build. He has really put in the time and effort sorting the X1 for serious open track duty.
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      06-05-2015, 05:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PleaseAdvise View Post
Hey if we could go ahead and stop dick measuring, name calling and just get advice that would be great. Im happy to see a debate but when it stops getting constructive and has potential to get locked thats when I need this to stop. So please back on topic mkay!
Ok, if the bench racers will calm the f*** down, I'll get you some ideas.

Your main question is: "How do I pick wheels and suspension"?

I got M Sport and suspension is fine for street or track.

I've seen every kind of car and driver ability, so I look at AutoX or HPDE track day as driver training.

The driver mod as in learning to go slow in and fast out is the best mod.

Sit up straight and close to steering wheel like Nascar drivers for more control.

Go to Tire Rack, and check Tire and wheel weights.

I like 8 x18 or 9 x18 which seems to be about the biggest wheel that can be the lightest weight.

Lots of sizes in 18's, and I ordered 18" wheels on purpose so I can put 225/40r18 and 255/35r18 Michelin pss tires on when the Runflats die.

That tweak doesn't cost more, and will lower car half inch and gear it down 4%.

My goal which sounds like yours is to just improve the car for street.

I like to test my improvements on track, but every car that's modded ends up being different, and it becomes apples and oranges.

Therefore, I don't give a damn about faster lap times, blah, blah, blah,etc.

My goal is to enjoy being a driving enthusiast, and get more out of car.

Hooked on driving in California wants to train HPDE drivers at 7/10 limit driving, and I go more like 8-9/10.

Your brakes shouldn't give you any trouble, but if they fade you'll find out, and lots of guys will tell you which pads to get.

Just don't track in temps over 90 degs for one thing.
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      06-05-2015, 05:23 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shock96 View Post
Apex is trying to keep you on the right track (pun intended of course).

Having spent quite a bit of time behind the wheel of a mild RX8, I am surprised to read what 0w40 had to say.

A mildly prepped RX8 is wicked fast on the track.

IMHO take a long hard look at Paradoxical's build. He has really put in the time and effort sorting the X1 for serious open track duty.
Yeah, I rode in a RX8 with Toyo R888 tires that would pull about 1.2 side G's.

The OP said he wanted a car to drive on street, and just improve slightly.

Anyone can throw money at the RX8, X1, or any other car and get more.

I got my RX8 to handle in a neutral manner with a good alignment, and I've held off Cobra Mustangs with 500 hp, etc. , because he had trouble applying the power on a bumpy track.

It's a fun car, but so is my X1 s28i, and a STOCK GT RX8 can hold me off on the corner, but as soon as I get a straight I'll get around.

There's just that much more power in the BMW X1.

If I'm up against a turbo RX8, well he'll stay in front.
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      06-05-2015, 05:33 AM   #20
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You should read the RX8club forum on people modding their suspension by lowering with different springs, and tightening with anti-sway bars.

They get in a situation where they can't tune the suspension, and describe car understeering , then, snap over steer etc.

I just ordered the Bilstein B12 Pro-kit for my RX8 because stock Mazda shocks aren't ever very good, and after 8 years and 33k miles my RX8 needs them.

See, I can mod a little, but I need a reason. These are shock matched with Eibach springs.

What';s better than Bilstein shocks on a German car? I'd probably do the same for my X1, but for now the suspension is firm and controllable.

If can't believe anyone would throw away the M Sport from factory suspension for something unknown.
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      06-05-2015, 09:00 AM   #21
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I'm honestly looking forward to the day when then stock struts/shocks are on their way out, and justify a set of Bilstein HDs. I was a Koni guy for about a decade, but after my first set of HDs on our 135, and replacing the Koni Yellows on our M3 with HDs, I think I'm a convert...at least as far as a street setup goes that sees harsh roads (e.g. the Northeast where I live).

The stock suspension tuning is decent (much better than the stock 135), but nothing a good set of dampeners wouldn't still improve.
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