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      02-13-2017, 06:15 PM   #1
txskibum_bmw
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Mod path for a Tree-hugger

Hi All! My 2014 black on black x1 35i Msport is nearing the end of its warranty, so I am looking into finally starting some mods.

I daily drive this car and am looking for power and handling upgrades. I could spend 2.5k or so. The wrinkle is that I am totally unwilling to delete cats, or otherwise alter emissions such that they would not pass a sniffer test. Just my personal stance, yet I still want to increase power as much as possible.

I have read up quite a bit on modifications, but I haven't found much advice for the odd person like myself, concerned about the environment and emissions yet still desiring to max power

Possible upgrade path based on my research, (please advise):

1) JB4 and chargepipe
2) Bilstein/H&R for handling upgrade? (Don't care about lowering for looks sake, just performance)
3) FMIC (if I never plan on catless DP, is this a waste?)
4) Intake (is the intake purely a sound modification, or does it add noticeable power?)
5) High flow cat downpipe (would this still pass sniffer test)?
6) ???


If it was your money and your were also a tree-hugger who liked to go fast, how would you spend the 2.5k? I can do most installs myself except perhaps front suspension.
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      02-13-2017, 07:13 PM   #2
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Trade in your X1 for a Tesla p85d and move to Oregon?

Else....
Jb4 and a downpipe is a good and easy mod. You do know that any power mod leads to more gas consumption and that's not quite the calling card of a tree hugger.

I really don't think you will get any satisfying handling for your money. The x1 sits higher than an average wagon let alone a sports car. So don't bother with adjusting it's DNA.
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      02-13-2017, 11:24 PM   #3
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I'm no tree hugger, but the Dinan Stage 2, currently at half price, sounds like the way to go. I'd do it in a heartbeat had I not chosen to upgrade the sound system. Besides, the 35i has plenty of power for me. Another 100 foot pounds of torque would just be bragging rights.
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      02-14-2017, 08:48 AM   #4
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Pick up a used JB4 for $250 or less. Drive around with it on map 5 for a few days, let it settle in. That should be enough for you. Probably about 380 bhp. Trap speed approaching 110 on 93. Not quite as consistent or smooth as the Dinan, but makes more power and is a HELL of a lot cheaper, even at 50% off.

I'm all about replacing the charge pipe if it starts to leak. Many, many never do.

The intake is a noise maker, although I do like the noise. Not a complete waste of $100, but no getting much in the power department.

I'd certainly do the Bilsteins and H&Rs. If you had to pick one, Bilsteins on stock springs.

The only other thing I'd seriously consider doing is the Strongflex Front CA bushings. Getting rid of the stock hydrobearing does wonders for the steering.

With that, you're up to about $1200. Not much reason to spend a lot more.


But the remaining $1.2/3k into the market for a rainy day.

Edit: The Alpina TCU trans flash. You WANT THIS. Put it #2 on your list after the JB4. Free to do it yourself, maybe $100 for someone to remote code it for you. It's great.
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      02-14-2017, 12:49 PM   #5
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Any of these aftermarket "tunes" will affect emissions to one extent or another, even if for no other reason than you burn more gas to go faster. And they might override some of the systems that would otherwise be used to reduce pollutants. If they say "for off road use only," it's probably for a reason. So, don't do non-street-legal engine mods if concerned about emissions. And you probably should have gotten a slower car in the first place! ;-)

IMO, the car is pretty darned fast, so go-fast mods aren't even on my radar, even though I only have the 28i.

In most cars, your best and most straightforward mod is a good set of tires. Maybe this doesn't apply as much for Xdrive? I'll have to think about non-RFTs.

I'd be curious to know if lowering would help with handling/performance. It's pretty tall, and IIRC, the skidpad results were not great on this car. Searching now, I only find figures for the new X1.
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      02-14-2017, 02:32 PM   #6
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Tires, lowering, and good shocks certainly improve handling a ton. Drives much more like the 335 hatch that it is.

You'll find the "off road use only" labels generally applies to exhaust components that remove cats. The tunes don't override or effect any emissions systems. They are street legal, perhaps except for CA.

But sure, if you're making more power, you're polluting more. But that doesn't make much sense, as if you're using any more throttle than you absolutely have to while driving, you're polluting more. And as you said, you already bought a heavy turbocharged car, so you could have done better in that regard.

If you think you're car is fast...you should get a ride in a tuned N55. And that's not even a "fast" car by today's standards.

But anyway, yeah, lots of improvement to be had on the handling front. The skidpad numbers are primarily a product of tire choice though...so if all you're looking for is more lateral grip, start there for sure.
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      02-14-2017, 04:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Tires, lowering, and good shocks certainly improve handling a ton. Drives much more like the 335 hatch that it is.

You'll find the "off road use only" labels generally applies to exhaust components that remove cats. The tunes don't override or effect any emissions systems. They are street legal, perhaps except for CA.

But sure, if you're making more power, you're polluting more. But that doesn't make much sense, as if you're using any more throttle than you absolutely have to while driving, you're polluting more. And as you said, you already bought a heavy turbocharged car, so you could have done better in that regard.
I have seen tunes, perhaps for other cars, which specifically state for off-road use only, even though no emissions parts are removed. Keep in mind that only the factory tune is used to pass EPA regulations, and it's more than CO2 that is a concern. Just ask VW about their TDI emissions. If a tune didn't matter, they wouldn't be paying for 100s of thousands of cars.

Quote:
If you think you're car is fast...you should get a ride in a tuned N55. And that's not even a "fast" car by today's standards.
Well, there's fast, and then there's fast. It's faster than most cars on the road, even though the bar has been raised over the years. Ok, it's not faster than a new GTI, Camaro, Mustang, etc., but I'm not sure it's so far away at least from the GTI.

Quote:

But anyway, yeah, lots of improvement to be had on the handling front. The skidpad numbers are primarily a product of tire choice though...so if all you're looking for is more lateral grip, start there for sure.
Definitely! Might even help you go faster, for those of us without the AWD.
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      02-14-2017, 06:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Vidgamer View Post
I have seen tunes, perhaps for other cars, which specifically state for off-road use only, even though no emissions parts are removed.
Which ones?

I think you'll find that the federal regs concentrate on the emissions system. The TDi analogy is a good bit different. This is an OEM cheating on federal certifications. There are plenty of aftermarket products, across endless product markets, that wouldn't pass certain specifications put in place for OE manufacturers. Individual states like CA have put laws in place to prevent modification of ECU control parameters. The rest of the country is still largely wide-open. Although open for interpretation, it certainly can be argued that there is nothing illegal about running a tune in most states in this country, so long as the emissions system is in place and functioning. But more generally, I guess I don't thnk there's much reason to make any kind of deal out of it. These tunes are not labeled "for off road use only", and they're not illegal, or at least enforced as such, in any state sans CA to date as far as I know. Literally tens of thousands of people are running them. Certainly nothing to worry about, particularly in Texas.

Yes, you'll be polluting more when you romp on it and use your 400 bhp, but you're also polluting more when you go WOT on the stock tune.

That aside, any of these cars fitted with a Dinan, BMS, etc. "tune" and factory cats would still EASILY pass emissions, as far as a sniffer goes. They are are still very, very clean. Not at all like an oil-burner.

Yeah, in a straight line, the GTI about splits the difference between an N20 and an N55 X1. Plenty quick for a daily, for sure, just not sure you can honestly call it "fast". It's a 3600 lb. (rwd), 240 hp (more like 255 though) car. It's one of the slower cars BMW sells. Personally, I don't think you can call a stock N55 "fast", but this is a semantic and personal thing anyway, so who really cares... But I will say, I wouldn't ignore power mods. At the levels we're talking about, tunes on either an N20 or N55 make a significant difference. Really, really upping the fun factor of the car. If you're not tuning your N20 because it's plenty fast as it is for you, you may be missing out on a lot of entertainment. For most people, an extra 40-80 bhp is more dramatic than more roll stiffness. Not that I'm saying that's a good thing.

I'll end saying a RWD X1 is one of the last good steering BMWs ever made. That's something.
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      02-14-2017, 08:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Pick up a used JB4 for $250 or less. Drive around with it on map 5 for a few days, let it settle in. That should be enough for you. Probably about 380 bhp. Trap speed approaching 110 on 93. Not quite as consistent or smooth as the Dinan, but makes more power and is a HELL of a lot cheaper, even at 50% off.
That makes a lot of sense, where should I look for a used JB4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I'm all about replacing the charge pipe if it starts to leak. Many, many never do.
Great, thanks for the advice. I will hold off until I have an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
I'd certainly do the Bilsteins and H&Rs. If you had to pick one, Bilsteins on stock springs.
Sounds good to me, thanks! Is the ride quality significantly affected? I am currently running stock staggered 19s on non-runflats


Thank you for the responses!
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      02-14-2017, 08:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
But sure, if you're making more power, you're polluting more. But that doesn't make much sense, as if you're using any more throttle than you absolutely have to while driving, you're polluting more. And as you said, you already bought a heavy turbocharged car, so you could have done better in that regard.
I meant the tree-hugger as a bit of a self-deprecating joke . I have a 1700CC drag bike (Yamaha warrior) and an Land Rover LR3 as my other vehicles...if I were really concerned about the environment I suppose I would pick more efficient vehicles in general

However, there is something I personally don't like about removing a cat or modifying a car to the point it couldn't pass emissions without some sort of defeat device installed. I certainly don't judge anyone else or claim my perspective is reasonable or should be widely adopted...but that's where I am at for my own vehicles. If my wife would let me, I would buy a 2 year old stingray in a heartbeat (which could pass emissions even though it is a ridiculous car for someone who cars about that sort of thing...I am odd I suppose.)

Most of the mod advice I have seen includes a catless DP in the chain at some point, so I wasn't sure what other mods are reasonable if I refuse to do the catless DP.
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      02-14-2017, 08:18 PM   #11
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Oh also I changed the tire out to the DWS Continental, they seem ok but I wouldn't know better as this is already the sportiest car I have ever owned.
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      02-14-2017, 08:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txskibum_bmw View Post
I meant the tree-hugger as a bit of a self-deprecating joke . I have a 1700CC drag bike (Yamaha warrior) and an Land Rover LR3 as my other vehicles...if I were really concerned about the environment I suppose I would pick more efficient vehicles in general

However, there is something I personally don't like about removing a cat or modifying a car to the point it couldn't pass emissions without some sort of defeat device installed. I certainly don't judge anyone else or claim my perspective is reasonable or should be widely adopted...but that's where I am at for my own vehicles. If my wife would let me, I would buy a 2 year old stingray in a heartbeat (which could pass emissions even though it is a ridiculous car for someone who cars about that sort of thing...I am odd I suppose.)

Most of the mod advice I have seen includes a catless DP in the chain at some point, so I wasn't sure what other mods are reasonable if I refuse to do the catless DP.
The DP on pump gas isn't worth a lot of power on the N55, there's some smallish gains, and a sound improvement. Start with the JB4. 60+ whp vs. 10-15 for the DP. You'll be surprised. Sound aside, the car drives all but the same with and without the DP.
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      02-14-2017, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txskibum_bmw View Post
Oh also I changed the tire out to the DWS Continental, they seem ok but I wouldn't know better as this is already the sportiest car I have ever owned.
Ugg, they are great in snow, but have an awful sidewall. in Texas, either stay on summers, or if you want some snow traction...go with something sportier than the DWS next time. It's a good tire...and I use them...but the sidewall is really, really brutal if you're looking for any kind of handling. Big step down even from stock in that regard.
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      02-14-2017, 08:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Ugg, they are great in snow, but have an awful sidewall. in Texas, either stay on summers, or if you want some snow traction...go with something sportier than the DWS next time. It's a good tire...and I use them...but the sidewall is really, really brutal if you're looking for any kind of handling. Big step down even from stock in that regard.
I drive to Colorado a few times every winter so at least they won't go to waste!
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      02-14-2017, 09:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Which ones?
How many do I need to list? ;-)

TDI:
https://www.rawtekinc.com/pages/disc...-road-use-only

GM:
http://www.alphafabindustries.com/pa...uning-services
http://www.gmtuners.com/eprom/custom.htm

Honda:
https://www.hondata.com/downloads/brochure.pdf

I just searched "for off road" tunes for the different car types.

But what about BMW tunes, just as the aforementioned JB4?

http://burgertuning.com/N20_Jb4.html

Hmm.

OK, what about Dinan?
https://www.dinancars.com/product/d4...ries&mid=1233/
Actually, it says it's pending approval from CA? Maybe it is street legal for this one, or at least will be? And their bigger tunes say they're legal. https://www.dinancars.com/the-evolution-of-power/ Go figure!

Quote:

I think you'll find that the federal regs concentrate on the emissions system. The TDi analogy is a good bit different. This is an OEM cheating on federal certifications.
But every car must conform to federal regulations on the output of various pollutants, including NOx. So, why was VW cheating on the NOx emissions in the first place? Because they have to juggle between regens, Adblue, performance, and economy, and trying to keep NOx down probably causes other problems.

Or to put it another way, it's as if they made their system conform, and then they "tuned" it to have additional performance... with a side-effect that they hoped nobody would notice.

What you're doing with these engine tunes is the same kind of thing. You're putting the engine outside of the parameters it was designed for. Those parameters were set for a reason (and probably largely to fit various criteria, particularly emissions).

Quote:
There are plenty of aftermarket products, across endless product markets, that wouldn't pass certain specifications put in place for OE manufacturers. Individual states like CA have put laws in place to prevent modification of ECU control parameters. The rest of the country is still largely wide-open. Although open for interpretation, it certainly can be argued that there is nothing illegal about running a tune in most states in this country, so long as the emissions system is in place and functioning. But more generally, I guess I don't thnk there's much reason to make any kind of deal out of it.
I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it, just pointing out that a lot of mods aren't street legal and probably add pollution, as I thought that was part of the OP's question....

Most states won't detect a problem, so they don't care. That doesn't make it "street legal". Whether or not it's a real problem, hard to say, but I'm not the one claiming to be a "tree-hugger". ;-)

Quote:
These tunes are not labeled "for off road use only", and they're not illegal, or
See Burger Tuning link above. For competition use only, on a closed road course.

Quote:
at least enforced as such, in any state sans CA to date as far as I know.
Is it legal just because you get away with it? ;-)

Quote:
Literally tens of thousands of people are running them. Certainly nothing to worry about, particularly in Texas.
I didn't say you had to worry, unless you're worried about emissions, as the OP originally implied. Oh well.


Quote:
Yes, you'll be polluting more when you romp on it and use your 400 bhp, but you're also polluting more when you go WOT on the stock tune.
But the WOT was tested by the manufacturer and approved by the government.

Quote:
That aside, any of these cars fitted with a Dinan, BMS, etc. "tune" and factory cats would still EASILY pass emissions, as far as a sniffer goes. They are are still very, very clean. Not at all like an oil-burner.
I doubt any changes kick in during the idle that you normally have when testing emissions. However, I'd bet if someone ran a test on a vehicle in motion, they could see how far it gets out of bounds. Let's hope they stick with testing factory output.

Quote:
Yeah, in a straight line, the GTI about splits the difference between an N20 and an N55 X1. Plenty quick for a daily, for sure, just not sure you can honestly call it "fast". It's a 3600 lb. (rwd), 240 hp (more like 255 though) car. It's one of the slower cars BMW sells. Personally, I don't think you can call a stock N55 "fast", but this is a semantic and personal thing anyway, so who really cares... But I will say, I wouldn't ignore power mods. At the levels we're talking about, tunes on either an N20 or N55 make a significant difference. Really, really upping the fun factor of the car. If you're not tuning your N20 because it's plenty fast as it is for you, you may be missing out on a lot of entertainment. For most people, an extra 40-80 bhp is more dramatic than more roll stiffness. Not that I'm saying that's a good thing.
Yeah, I get the impression that the X1 is the cheap entry-level BMW. No respect! ;-) I'm serious, though -- I really haven't gotten to the point yet where I've felt that I needed more power. It just takes off when I step on it. Should be low 6s, 0 to 60. I'd call anything around 6 sec 0-60 fast. You may need 5 sec to call it fast.

It's awful tempting just to get a $300 Dinan box and get another 30hp. It's so freaking easy to get more power out of these things. And cheaper than suspension mods too! Just plug in the box and boom.

Quote:
I'll end saying a RWD X1 is one of the last good steering BMWs ever made. That's something.
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      02-15-2017, 07:17 AM   #16
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Yup, I stand corrected. Sorry!

How the hell did I not notice that? I freaking looked at the site before I posted. Perhaps too much -->

I will say, if you read the link to the "competition use only" on the BMS products, it is pretty clearly directed to the CA laws. They are a CA company and probably have to mark it as such.

Semantics coming...

And FWIW, I wouldn't call 5 seconds to 60 "fast" either. There are cars that run in the 2's at this point, many in the 3's and tons in the 4's. Heck, even a stock 335 runs 4.7-8 or so. I think the term "fast" should be used to describe cars on the faster end of the spectrum. Call me crazy If you start calling 6 seconds to 60 fast, we run out of adjectives to use on cars that run it twice as fast as that.

I think what is fast changes with the times, which is perhaps unfair. If I had to ballpark my personal definition...I'd say at least low to mid 4's to 60, but more importantly, a low 12 second 1/4 at, say, 115+ mph is just starting to get into the realm of "fast".

We have a 400 bhp 135 and a 380 bhp X1. Both are pretty quick. The 135 I might describe to someone as "pretty fast", but it would depend who I was talking too.
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      02-15-2017, 06:33 PM   #17
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Adverbs. Once past "fast", you can move up to "really fast", and from there to, "Wicked fast"!

I dunno, if most of the cars on the road around me are 7 sec. or slower cars, then 6 seconds is fast. YMMV. If hanging around muscle car guys, then I guess your 400hp car is only kinda fast. I do feel like I've got the "cheap" BMW, but I guess I'm OK with that.

The fastest car we owned was probably the Subaru Forester XT. 0-60 of 5.2. Ok, so that was 10 years ago, but still pretty fast. It was crazy. OK, sure, I wish the X1 was faster just so I could say it was faster than a Subaru but I'm ok with it. The newer Forester XTs are actually now a second slower, so about the X1 speed. Not everything gets faster! X1 wins by default!
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      02-17-2017, 04:20 AM   #18
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OP,you should check if cobb can support the E84. I personally like the flash tunes better than the piggybacks since they retain all the fail safes built into the ECU

I think FMIC + tune gets most of the "full bolt on" gains, I would deprioritize down pipe

My $0.02 on handling is just swap to a slightly wider tire with a stickier compound and call it a day. my opinion, its a 39xx lb car, and it's a practical raised up SUV-like thing. Why try to make it something it is not by lowering it and adding handling mods

As for 0-60 in 6s being "fast", honestly, that's so awesome to think that. Life is so much cheaper and simpler that way. Keep on enjoying the car, and stay far away from cars that trap 125+mph...
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      02-17-2017, 05:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
OP,you should check if cobb can support the E84. I personally like the flash tunes better than the piggybacks since they retain all the fail safes built into the ECU
That is just plain incorrect.

What "fail safes" are you referring to, and why do you think a piggyback would have anything to do with their functionality?

The stock timing control, knock control, etc. are all still in place with a piggyback. If anything, the flash tunes alter the stock, conservative timing curves.

Not that flash tunes don't have their benefits, or that I prefer piggies...but let's keep the facts straight.

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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I think FMIC + tune gets most of the "full bolt on" gains, I would deprioritize down pipe

A FMIC isn't gaining you power. It'll stave off heat soak longer, so you'll have your peak power more consistently. A DP on a tuned car is going to gain you somewhere in the 15 whp peak, but sometimes more significant gains in the midrange. I do agree it can be de-prioritized for many people though, as the tunes are really where the majority of the power is at. But DP gains are noticeable, for sure.

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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post

My $0.02 on handling is just swap to a slightly wider tire with a stickier compound and call it a day. my opinion, its a 39xx lb car, and it's a practical raised up SUV-like thing. Why try to make it something it is not by lowering it and adding handling mods
That's the thing. It's all E90 xdrive underneath.

It's simply a raised 335 xdrive hatch back, or a smaller 335 touring. It is not an SUV at all. It doesn't weight significantly more than a 335 xdrive sedan, and some models weight less, in fact.

In that sense, it made no sense for BMW to raise an E90 hatch a couple inches and call it a crossover. Thus, it actually makes a lot of sense to lower this car back down, unlike an actual SUV like the X3 or X5, imho.

Closest thing to the 335 touring that many of us want, and BMW never gave us.
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Last edited by PrematureApex; 02-17-2017 at 05:17 AM..
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      02-17-2017, 08:33 AM   #20
Vidgamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
...

My $0.02 on handling is just swap to a slightly wider tire with a stickier compound and call it a day. my opinion, its a 39xx lb car, and it's a practical raised up SUV-like thing. Why try to make it something it is not by lowering it and adding handling mods
It's more of a hatchback than SUV. I'll definitely try just the tires as a first try. Not too sure about these RFTs... I'd love to lower it, for looks as much as handling, but not too excited about spending the money on it (it's not a cheap mod to do right -- not sure lowering springs alone will cut it) when it's not that necessary and hard to get right. (I've read stories about people bottoming-out, probably due to the cheaper mod of just using lowering springs.)


Quote:
As for 0-60 in 6s being "fast", honestly, that's so awesome to think that. Life is so much cheaper and simpler that way. Keep on enjoying the car, and stay far away from cars that trap 125+mph...
That's pretty easy to do. What (*cough* stock) cars do that? Nissan GT-R? maybe the new Camaro and Mustang top-end models?

For reference: https://www.0-60specs.com/chevrolet-camaro-0-60-times/

You can't even get there (stock) with a Camaro unless you go to the exotic ZL1 edition! Pretty expensive stuff, yes. And uncommon. A lot of the older pony cars aren't even as fast as the new ones. So, I think I'll be OK, with my pokey 6.2 sec. car, but I will have to keep an eye on these piggyback adapters. I kind of like the idea of $300 and 30 more HP -- what are your thoughts on that smaller Dinan controller?

It's a hot-hatch in disguise. It makes the GTI look boy-racer in comparison. It's a sleeper, like that Subie we had. It has a usable back seat. Is it really that bad?

When I shopped for cars, the fastest ones were mid-5s. Camaros (the interior space was a tad too tight), Audi A3 and GTI. GTI was best bang-for-the-buck although a deal on a Camaro could even be better. So, I could have gotten something somewhat faster (but still not with a 125+ trap speed). What do you suppose I should have bought and at what price? I decided to look used and try to save further. Now I could easily get into a BMW. Seemed like a good idea.
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      02-17-2017, 08:39 AM   #21
Alfisti
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Interesting thread.

I drive a Saab 9-3 that used to be the family hauler but the wife now drives an X3 that does said duty. When my car dies, which frankly looks a good 5 years away as i only have 60,000 miles on it, I want to buy something a bit silly for myself but I am too old and out of shape for a sports car and the roads here are arrow straight.

I figure a X1 with the 3T and a tune would yield circa 400HP, should be a bit of fun.
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      02-17-2017, 08:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidgamer View Post

When I shopped for cars, the fastest ones were mid-5s. Camaros (the interior space was a tad too tight), Audi A3 and GTI. GTI was best bang-for-the-buck although a deal on a Camaro could even be better. So, I could have gotten something somewhat faster (but still not with a 125+ trap speed). What do you suppose I should have bought and at what price? I decided to look used and try to save further. Now I could easily get into a BMW. Seemed like a good idea.
IMHO you made the right call. It's a big engine so makes the power easily, better than stressing a 2T. The bit of height means you can run some actual sidewall to aid, yes aid, handling and comfort, it's win/win. Also means you don't worry about concrete sleepers in car parks or scraping kerbs.
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