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      07-10-2011, 03:27 PM   #1
barbel
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help with chosing an X1

Advice needed: I'm a relapsed BMW owner (had two 5 series in the past, best cars I've ever owned), and now looking to rejoin the fold if I can find the right car. I live in the south of france, with most driving being a mixture of urban and country, but with fishing/skiing being my main summer/winter hobbies. Skiing is about a 3 hour autoroute drive from home. Fishing could be anywhere. I like the general spec and looks of the X1. Having something reasonably small helps with parking in France. The idea of a quality 4x4 appeals to me, especially if the consumption is reasonable. Can anyone advise me on a choice of model in the X1 range?
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      07-10-2011, 03:43 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbel View Post
Advice needed: I'm a relapsed BMW owner (had two 5 series in the past, best cars I've ever owned), and now looking to rejoin the fold if I can find the right car. I live in the south of france, with most driving being a mixture of urban and country, but with fishing/skiing being my main summer/winter hobbies. Skiing is about a 3 hour autoroute drive from home. Fishing could be anywhere. I like the general spec and looks of the X1. Having something reasonably small helps with parking in France. The idea of a quality 4x4 appeals to me, especially if the consumption is reasonable. Can anyone advise me on a choice of model in the X1 range?
Hi barbel, welcome to the forum

I think the best would to be to try and read as many of the threads on here as you can. Especially the older posts around a year ago contain lots of discussions on the various models as they came out.

Not sure which engine types you get there but the first decision would be, petrol or diesel?

We don't get petrols here but in my opinion the 2.0d XDrive in auto is the pick of the bunch, although I am sure some of our friends on here would disagree

Anyway, the next step would be to try and test drive as many different variants as you can. We will help with the options as well
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      07-11-2011, 03:28 AM   #3
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As an owner of 18i sDrive I would recommend choosing an xDrive with a more powerful engine. Seems like 200 N*m of torque is not enough. sDrive is pretty weak on slippery surfaces and mud and 149 BHP isn't enough to spin up the car on short distances, what leads to high fuel consumption in city driving.
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      07-11-2011, 03:44 AM   #4
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Exotic Hadron: I guess you know all about snow and ice. Do you have experience with 4x4 and/or winter tyres and/or chains? With an xDrive, I assume that switching to winter tyres would be sensible in the snow, but with a 3 hour autoroute drive from my home to the mountains, and with "home" always snow-free, and only going for a few weekends each winter, I wonder if I will spend a fortune on winter tyres. Any thoughts?
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      07-11-2011, 06:49 AM   #5
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Unfortunately, my friend, I know little about winter tyres. I used to drive on summer tyres this winter. That was challenging but it kinda worked.
What I know for sure is that sDrive does not do differential locking. Bummers. That means a single icy pot, one of the driving wheels in air with little or now contact with snow, and you won't be able to get out. With 4x4 you'll most likely be able to get out of trouble by help of font wheels.
If you can afford price margin, don't even think about sDrive, choose xDrive, that's a killer. I'd better save on winter tyres and opt for all wheel drive.

Last edited by Exotic Hadron; 07-11-2011 at 07:32 AM..
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      07-11-2011, 09:26 AM   #6
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Unless I've misunderstood, I don't think the 4x4 xDrive has diff-locking either.
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      07-11-2011, 10:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by barbel View Post
Unless I've misunderstood, I don't think the 4x4 xDrive has diff-locking either.
It's done with the firmware. The locking is made by ABS (or it is probably done by XDS; still I think hardware is the same as for ABS, the only difference is in software), which is specially controlled by firmware. The feature is called EDL, Electronic Differential Lock. Pity that they haven't implemented it in sDrive that would cost them nothing. "Thanks" to marketing.

Last edited by Exotic Hadron; 07-11-2011 at 10:14 AM..
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      07-11-2011, 10:56 AM   #8
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The xDrive also has Hill Descent Control - it's a no-brainer barbel, you need the xDrive!
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      07-11-2011, 11:01 AM   #9
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I have a winter tyre set so fire away any questions you have.

In a nutshell though, they make a huuuge difference.
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      07-12-2011, 01:28 AM   #10
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Hi again, barbel. Just have a look at these photos published by mario486. No way to do that with sDrive.
"If I were a rich man, Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum. All day long I'd biddy biddy bum."
Seriously, Sir, if you can afford the xDrive, just go for it.
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      07-12-2011, 02:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exotic Hadron View Post
........
Seriously, Sir, if you can afford the xDrive, just go for it.
Think it might be Madam And I agree if you are going to do anything offroad or very slippery....but then you would not do that in a sedan anyway.
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      07-12-2011, 03:09 AM   #12
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No it's sir not madam - not sure how to prove that on a forum though http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/image...happyanim.gif- but no such formality required!!

Mario, re the winter tyres. I guess my environment is a bit different from yours. At home here (Nimes) snow and ice are so rare as to be discounted. It can be torrentially wet though, in the autumn/winter. However, during the winter months I would expect to spend several weekends and a couple of longer trips in the mountains. The alps and pyrannees are each a 3-hour motorway trip from home. I've never used winter tyres before. Based on this lifestyle, would you recommend that I switch to winter tyres for dec-mar... and if so, do these wear out fast - bear in mind that even in the winter months, the majority of my driving would still be on dry, non-mountain roads.

also, what is the practical way to switch tyres - do you get a garage to switch them for you, or do you need to keep another set of wheels?


Your advice is much appreciated,
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      07-12-2011, 03:15 AM   #13
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oh, I get it.
barBEL (which is a wonderful river fish), not barBIE (a doll),

HAHA
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      07-12-2011, 05:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbel View Post
No it's sir not madam - not sure how to prove that on a forum though http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/image...happyanim.gif- but no such formality required!!

Mario, re the winter tyres. I guess my environment is a bit different from yours. At home here (Nimes) snow and ice are so rare as to be discounted. It can be torrentially wet though, in the autumn/winter. However, during the winter months I would expect to spend several weekends and a couple of longer trips in the mountains. The alps and pyrannees are each a 3-hour motorway trip from home. I've never used winter tyres before. Based on this lifestyle, would you recommend that I switch to winter tyres for dec-mar... and if so, do these wear out fast - bear in mind that even in the winter months, the majority of my driving would still be on dry, non-mountain roads.

also, what is the practical way to switch tyres - do you get a garage to switch them for you, or do you need to keep another set of wheels?


Your advice is much appreciated,
Oops sorry...sir.. Its just I knew a german lady called Barbel many years ago....But loooong story and wrong forum....

Back to the tyres...well it depends. There are four main types, summer tyres, which you find on most cars these days. All season tyres, which are a mix of summer and winter. Mud and Snow tyres (winter tyres marked M&S or a little mountain symbol) and lastly studded tyres for really icy, Nordic conditions. The studded ones are illegal in most southern european countries, including the UK, so you can discount them.

That leaves three choices; summer, combination or M&S. The main deciding factor here is of course your local conditions but the line between summer and winter tyres is roughly a road temperature of 7C. A common fallacy is that winters are only for when you encounter snow and ice, this is not true. As the road gets colder normal summer tyres get harder, to the point where you start losing grip. Best example is in F1 racing where you can see how poorly the driver’s times (and handling) are on cold rubber. Winter tyres have a much higher silica content which means they remain pliable at very low temperatures. Another rough guide is that at 0C winter tyres will give you around 30% shorter braking distances than the summers, quite a difference. Another interesting, and little known, fact is that summer tyres actually wear faster at low temperatures, the rubber becomes brittle. The converse is also true of course, winter tyres wear faster when the road gets hot. So, if you are going to be doing a fair bit of driving on road temperatures below 7C, you should be on winters. Always above 7C, use summers. The All Season tyres are a bit of an in-between. An option if you are looking for a single set of wheels but they are a compromise both ways. Also not so easy to get hold of in the correct size for a X1.

Lastly, just for completeness, winter tyres have a different tread pattern containing more cross tread than a summer tyre, which gives you the extra grip. The better tyres also make use of sipe technology. Difficult to explain but if you look at a winter tyre closely you will see that the tread itself is “cut” into hundreds of smaller blocks. These “cuts” or sipes causes the “blocks” to move independently of each other, giving grip and breaking up any compacted ice.

Where I live our road temperature falls below 7C around November and goes back up above this around March every year, so a good 4-5 months in every year. As a result I have a second set of winter tyres and rims. The winter rims are steel, mainly due to cost but also because I have seen how snow chains have scratched alloys. Everyone says good quality and well fitted chains should not scratch rims but the fact is they do. Incidentally, I went through BMW themselves for the winters as they have a service whereby they store my alternate set and do the swop overs free of charge. If you decide to stick to a single set of summer tyres I would suggest that you then rather invest in the better “rigid” type of chains, like those made by Thule (K-Summit). Also check to see whether there is any legal requirement to fit chains and/or winter tyres, I know some countries have quite strict rules on this.
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      07-12-2011, 05:53 AM   #15
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Mario486, tks for such a detailed response on the tyres. Just to clarify: is there is major downside to using M&S above 7C? I was thinking that I could switch to M&S for 3 winter months, but I guess the roads away from the mountains will often be above 7C. Does that mean that I will pay just the penalty just a bit more tyre wear, or is is more complicated than that?

On a separate point, choice of model and gearbox... I'm now honing in on the 20d or 23d. I see you have 20d and chose (and like) the auto box. This wouldn't have been my immediate thought, so I'm very interested in your experience. My earlier BMWs were both (different 5-series) autos, and I really liked them. But over the last 5 years or so I've been driving a (non BMW) manual, and got back to liking that too. For urban/country driving, I think I'd like an auto. But how is it in the snow? Sorry for my ignorance of the current BMW autobox and how it works, but does it have a useful manual overide? And if so, how did you use it in your exploits in the snow and mud of Scotland?

Final question, my son (who has a 120d) warned me that the service costs can be high on the diesel due to the shorter service interval compared with the petrol. Is this true?

Last edited by barbel; 07-12-2011 at 05:54 AM.. Reason: finger trouble, b
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      07-12-2011, 06:46 AM   #16
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In Canada, our X1 came with Goodyear Eagles LS. They have a "M+S" on them. But no mountain symbol. So they obviously can be used over 7C as it was 31C yesterday.

I agree with Mario486 that buying a second set of winters is the optimum solution if you have a real winter and it lasts for months and you are keeping the car for a few years. I wouldn't worry too much about the extra wear above 7C for a few weeks either. But in your case, if you want to save some bucks, M +S is probably the best bet for casual use. The better tread will also help with grip in the wet vs. summers.
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      07-12-2011, 08:45 AM   #17
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barbel - it depends if BMW includes a Service Plan in the purchase price - they do in some countries. If not enquire how much it will add and judge if it's worth it - or haggle it as part of a discount. In fact I would say do not buy the car without it anyway, even if you have to pay for it. Haggle hard.

Outside a service plan - yes diesels generally require more frequent servicing than petrols. Take into account how long you'll keep the car for.

Also note that recommend advice for any modern diesel is to drive a single 40km+ trip (one-way) once every two weeks to clear their filters and keep them clean until routine servicing. This is very important. Manufacturers may not always give this advice, but motoring hacks do.
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      07-12-2011, 11:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manicm View Post
barbel - it depends if BMW includes a Service Plan in the purchase price - they do in some countries. If not enquire how much it will add and judge if it's worth it - or haggle it as part of a discount. In fact I would say do not buy the car without it anyway, even if you have to pay for it. Haggle hard.

Outside a service plan - yes diesels generally require more frequent servicing than petrols. Take into account how long you'll keep the car for.

Also note that recommend advice for any modern diesel is to drive a single 40km+ trip (one-way) once every two weeks to clear their filters and keep them clean until routine servicing. This is very important. Manufacturers may not always give this advice, but motoring hacks do.
Manicm is correct, get a service plan if you can. I paid extra for mine and have the same type of plan on the Mini, worth every penny and takes out any worries about future costs or cost rises. As he says, diesels are more expensive to maintain, but generally and arguably last longer than petrol engines as well.

The filter he refers to is the Diesel Particulate Filter and yes you need to run the car for half an hour or so at speed to clean them. Basically they heat up and then “burn” the soot away, bit like a self cleaning oven. I have never got a straight answer as to how regularly you need to do this but imho I would say every few months at least. If you do not however they get clogged and are very expensive to replace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUH CAR View Post
In Canada, our X1 came with Goodyear Eagles LS. They have a "M+S" on them. But no mountain symbol. So they obviously can be used over 7C as it was 31C yesterday.

I agree with Mario486 that buying a second set of winters is the optimum solution if you have a real winter and it lasts for months and you are keeping the car for a few years. I wouldn't worry too much about the extra wear above 7C for a few weeks either. But in your case, if you want to save some bucks, M +S is probably the best bet for casual use. The better tread will also help with grip in the wet vs. summers.
Yep, winters can of course be used in summer but they just won’t last as long at 30C. According to the experts there is a slight (5%?) loss of traction when they get really hot. Also the 7C is just a general rule of thumb, or design point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbel View Post
Mario486, tks for such a detailed response on the tyres. Just to clarify: is there is major downside to using M&S above 7C? I was thinking that I could switch to M&S for 3 winter months, but I guess the roads away from the mountains will often be above 7C. Does that mean that I will pay just the penalty just a bit more tyre wear, or is is more complicated than that?
Not complicated, just think of the 7C as a guideline. The more you go below this the more the reason to use winters, above this the more reason to use summers, simple. However, if the road temperature consistently falls much below 2C I would say you should be on winters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbel View Post
On a separate point, choice of model and gearbox... I'm now honing in on the 20d or 23d. I see you have 20d and chose (and like) the auto box. This wouldn't have been my immediate thought, so I'm very interested in your experience. My earlier BMWs were both (different 5-series) autos, and I really liked them. But over the last 5 years or so I've been driving a (non BMW) manual, and got back to liking that too. For urban/country driving, I think I'd like an auto. But how is it in the snow? Sorry for my ignorance of the current BMW autobox and how it works, but does it have a useful manual overide? And if so, how did you use it in your exploits in the snow and mud of Scotland?
Very subjective this one but I will try and answer:

2.0d vs 2.3d – I found the 2.0d engine to be a good compromise between price and performance and the match with the auto box. The 2.3d is really nice but I found that it was a bit “peaky” with the auto. Largely down to my own exerience and "feel" I must add, and I don’t have a huge amount of experience with autos.

Auto vs manual – The X1 is my first auto...ever. Thought long and hard about this as I normally prefer a manual. However, this is a diesel and the auto box just handles it really well with little sacrifice in performance or economy. In addition about 70% of my driving is around town and its great to have a nice relaxing drive. If I want to have a blast around our narrow streets I take the Mini.

X1’s auto – Yes its very good. There is a DS (direct shift) option as well. Just be careful, in the UK the steering wheel paddles are another extra. Manual shifting through the gears is a blast but leaving it in DS mode gives a more sporty drive anyway. Sticks to gears longer and is very good with engine braking. The auto is also “intelligent” of sorts in that it “learns” you current driving style and adapts accordingly. If you are lazy, for eg during pull aways, its lazy. If you floor it it tends to also be a bit manic...brilliant.

WARNING – There is a new 8-speed due on the X1 and it may be an idea to get this one. I have driven it in the new X3 and its really, really good.

Auto in the snow – Easy, I leave it in auto, it has just worked for me. The electronic gizmos take over and it just goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barbel View Post
Final question, my son (who has a 120d) warned me that the service costs can be high on the diesel due to the shorter service interval compared with the petrol. Is this true?
Yes, diesels are more expensive to maintain than petrols. Its not a big difference though but get a service plan if you can. Oh, and you probably will make up the difference in fuel costs anyway.

Lastly and most importantly. Try and get an extended test drive on as many varients as you can, even if this means testing some second hand ones as well. I cannot stress this enough, its your money so get the one that feels right for you.
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      07-12-2011, 11:49 AM   #19
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Won't the new X1's have the new 8-speed auto in Europe?
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      07-12-2011, 12:25 PM   #20
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Won't the new X1's have the new 8-speed auto in Europe?
Not been announced yet for the UK. Correct me if I am wrong but the new T4 petrol does but again not available here...yet.
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      07-12-2011, 03:38 PM   #21
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Not been announced yet for the UK. Correct me if I am wrong but the new T4 petrol does but again not available here...yet.
Well, they say it's going to be "autumn 2011". Betcha an up-to-date salesperson would know exactly when.......

http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=550722
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      07-17-2011, 07:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbel View Post
Mario486, tks for such a detailed response on the tyres. Just to clarify: is there is major downside to using M&S above 7C? I was thinking that I could switch to M&S for 3 winter months, but I guess the roads away from the mountains will often be above 7C. Does that mean that I will pay just the penalty just a bit more tyre wear, or is is more complicated than that?
Hi Barbel,

Let's keep it simple : I drive thru the Burgundy Winters and a pair of Winter rubbers on the rear wheels of our X1 SDrive got me out of EVERY SITUATION so far, whether snow or ice. Or even both, uphill.
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