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      12-21-2014, 09:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Because I dislike false advertising. The question is, why don't you care if you do have a N20 engine? Dinan claims they can adjust target lambda via piggyback when no other tuner can.

I am simply asking how that is the case.
I don't care because the other tune doesn't warranty the vehicle and from what I have heard is not responsive to any issues you might encounter.
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      12-22-2014, 05:15 PM   #24
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Do you guys have a dyno graph that shows in wheel horsepower instead of flywheel?
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      12-22-2014, 09:53 PM   #25
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That is wheel horsepower. Dinan does things differently. Ordered mine today, hopefully installed Jan 2. Also have ER catted DP and charge pipes on the way.
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      12-23-2014, 12:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
That is wheel horsepower. Dinan does things differently. Ordered mine today, hopefully installed Jan 2. Also have ER catted DP and charge pipes on the way.
That is flywheel horsepower, not wheel horsepower.
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      12-23-2014, 12:28 AM   #27
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I'm ok with the HP and torque of my 2.8 X1, I'm more interested in the reliability, warrenty, and fuel economy. I'm into sport bikes, so there's no way to make the proformance I get out of my Ducati, in a car that I could ever afford. But what I would really like is to get rid of the horrible hesitation the X1 has from a standing stop, it's downright dangerous if your not expecting it. Has this been fixed with this unit? And is your warenty good in Canada as well?
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      12-23-2014, 09:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandaman184 View Post
What if we have an extended full warranty of 6yr/100k miles, does it impact that at all? Thanks
The Dinan warranty specifically relates to the BMW 4yr/50k new car warranty. As to the effect on an extended warranty you would want to ask the dealer or consult your legal paperwork directly since all 3rd party extended warranties have different limitations. For most extended warranties ANY performance modifications automatically affect the extended warranty. This isn't true for all but in the vast majority this is the case, hence why you would want to research your specific case beforehand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Can you specifically explain how the dinantronics piggyback unit ties directly into the factory ECU to a degree that the Burger Motorsports JB4 does not? It is hard to understand how that is the case when you are utilizing the same connectors they are.
Other vendors typically tie directly into select signals at sensor locations throughout the engine compartment. Dinan on the other hand connects directly into the DME, not simply just the sensors. This way we have access to all the signals coming and going from the ECU, not just the boost or other select sensors. While you can accomplish more power via fewer sensors you are relying on the factory DME to auto-correct the other mismatches it sees. This can lead to drivability issues, delayed throttle responses, or a host of other issues. By interfacing into more data we are not reliant on the factory ECU auto-correcting these values and thus the side effects are avoided. Everything we interface with is done so no faults or codes are thrown whether those lead to a CEL or a hidden code doesn't matter. Our device just doesn't create them because we are adjusting data at every level and not relying on the factory ECU to have to auto-correct anything. The factory ECU simply sees everything as working as intended while the DINANTRONICS seamlessly interfaces with the factory components, and ultimately leaving the DME to not have to spend calculations 'fixing' problems.

Quote:
It is my understanding that the encryption for the N20 and N55 engines has yet to be cracked, which means that Dinan cannot access the actual ECU parameters/maps anymore than any other tuner could.
Correct. The F series DME's have not been cracked so we cannot access the data tables directly but by manipulating more signals at the base level we can alter more parameters.

Quote:
This quote from your website is patently false, to to the best of my knowledge: "The DINANTRONICS™ Performance Tuner uniquely has the capability to adjust target Lambda, correct short term trim as well as ignition timing errors induced by raising boost pressure. This enables Dinan calibration engineers to optimize air/fuel mixture and ignition timing at elevated boost pressure throughout the entire gamut of engine RPM and engine load."

With the N55 and N20 engines how can you adjust target Lambda when no flash tuning exists outside of a select few 2011 models with the proper DME? Further, are you saying that you can correct timing errors simply by raising boost? If that is the case, any piggyback would be able to do so (surely you are not claiming that only Dinan piggybacks can raise boost).
See prior comment for most of this. We are not saying we are correcting timing by raising boost. The quote states that raising boost typically produces timing errors and that the Dinan tuner can adjust for them. No one is claiming that we are the only ones that raise boost, quite the opposite. We are stating that we do much more then JUST raise the boost.

Quote:
Are you really claiming to be able to manipulate AFR ratios at specific RPMs when no other tuner can?
As stated before we do not have access directly to the tables since the ECU has not been cracked. However, we can essentially do the same thing by interfacing with more signals and pointing the factory DME into the direction we want it to go.

Lastly, if the end-user is not happy with the DINANTRONICS Performance tuner we offer a satisfaction guarantee so they are free to contact us within 3 business days and we will refund them the cost of the unit (labor charges are not covered). We are sure they will be satisfied with the performance and ultimately the support from the factory matching new car warranty which is why we offer this guarantee.

If you or anyone has any specific technical questions I would encourage you to reach out and call us, as the sales department is much better equipped to answer the technical questions than I, the random internet/online marketing guy.
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      12-23-2014, 09:40 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tw4life View Post
Do you guys have a dyno graph that shows in wheel horsepower instead of flywheel?
We only do crank (flywheel) numbers so a direct comparison to factory numbers is more of a apples to apples comparison. You can apply a 12-13% drivetrain loss to the crank numbers you see to get the rough wheel numbers if desired. Its not quite as simple as that as the drivetrain loss varies, by gear, RPM, load, and a slew of other variables but it gets you in the ballpark.

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Originally Posted by Twix View Post
That is wheel horsepower. Dinan does things differently. Ordered mine today, hopefully installed Jan 2. Also have ER catted DP and charge pipes on the way.
The charts reflect crank HP.
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      12-23-2014, 09:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenInCND View Post
I'm ok with the HP and torque of my 2.8 X1, I'm more interested in the reliability, warrenty, and fuel economy. I'm into sport bikes, so there's no way to make the proformance I get out of my Ducati, in a car that I could ever afford. But what I would really like is to get rid of the horrible hesitation the X1 has from a standing stop, it's downright dangerous if your not expecting it. Has this been fixed with this unit? And is your warenty good in Canada as well?
Warranty is good in Canada --- 4yr/80k KM.

I have never noticed a hesitation on the throttle response on any of our test N20 vehicles (pre or post tune) so I really can't say that it got fixed or not. However, we do not alter any of the throttle settings so I would doubt it would resolve your issue unless it just happens to be a by-product of something we do alter. Is this happening in all comfort settings or just in sport +? May want to get the car checked out since that is not something I have heard before.
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      12-24-2014, 10:10 PM   #31
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I have only driven two BWMs, my X1, and the one I test drove. But from what I have read on this forum, it isn't just mine. The next time you drive one wait till the last second to pull into traffic from a complete stop, then stomp on the gas. Make sure you have a extra pair of underwear. There is at least 2 full seconds before anything happens.
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      12-25-2014, 12:47 AM   #32
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Thanks for your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post

Other vendors typically tie directly into select signals at sensor locations throughout the engine compartment. Dinan on the other hand connects directly into the DME, not simply just the sensors. This way we have access to all the signals coming and going from the ECU, not just the boost or other select sensors.
But if the encryption isn't cracked, isn't it true that all you can do is manipulate sensor data before entry into the ECU, which is exactly what all other piggybacks do? Connecting "directly to the ecu" doesn't accomplish much if you can't read/write/modify anything from it.

Quote:
While you can accomplish more power via fewer sensors you are relying on the factory DME to auto-correct the other mismatches it sees. This can lead to drivability issues, delayed throttle responses, or a host of other issues. By interfacing into more data we are not reliant on the factory ECU auto-correcting these values and thus the side effects are avoided.
So is the Dinantronics a complete engine management system in the vein of a Motec unit? Because if not, you are manipulating sensor data pre-ecu and relying on it to react a certain way to get the parameters you want - exactly what other piggybacks do. This is just the way that ECUs are designed - as far as timing goes, for example, unless you have figured out how to raise the maximum degrees of timing via piggyback (which would be amazing), all piggybacks will max out at the same cap. It's just a matter of presenting the ecu with ideal conditions and it will add timing. Raise IATs or lose octane, and the ECU will pull timing. Are you saying that with the Dinantronics unit, this does not occur?

Quote:
Everything we interface with is done so no faults or codes are thrown whether those lead to a CEL or a hidden code doesn't matter. Our device just doesn't create them because we are adjusting data at every level and not relying on the factory ECU to have to auto-correct anything. The factory ECU simply sees everything as working as intended while the DINANTRONICS seamlessly interfaces with the factory components, and ultimately leaving the DME to not have to spend calculations 'fixing' problems.
This really isn't fair to say. I have plenty of logs showing that my ECU only sees stock boost levels, even when running in excess of 21PSI. Also, other piggyback tunes don't throw many (or any at all) codes when kept at the same power level as the Dinantronics device. It is only when adjusted for higher boost level than Dinan do plausibility codes begin to be thrown (throttle angle, airflow, etc). Further, the ECU sees things as working as intended with other units too. Since Dinantronics is admittedly unable to directly read/write the ECU, you are relying on the ECU's pre-written algorithms to auto-correct errors.

Quote:
Correct. The F series DME's have not been cracked so we cannot access the data tables directly but by manipulating more signals at the base level we can alter more parameters.

As stated before we do not have access directly to the tables since the ECU has not been cracked. However, we can essentially do the same thing by interfacing with more signals and pointing the factory DME into the direction we want it to go.
I am not trying to be an asshole here, but I don't understand how this possible with a closed loop fueling system.

You have stated that you cannot edit fueling maps and that you do not rely on the ECU to autocorrect for various sensor input. To the best of my knowledge that is incompatible with modifying lambda target in a closed loop fueling system. Regardless of any sensor data you manipulate, in a closed loop system the ECU will always autocorrect back to lamda.

If you managed to pull this off somehow, that is really cool.


Quote:
If you or anyone has any specific technical questions I would encourage you to reach out and call us, as the sales department is much better equipped to answer the technical questions than I, the random internet/online marketing guy.
I think it would be helpful if the sales department could answer questions like these for future potential buyers to see on the forums. It would save them a lot of time answering the same questions and provide a wealth of info to potential customers.

I am not an expert here and could be totally wrong. I think it would be tremendously helpful for Dinan to show some graphs or logs or other data that illustrate the level of sophistication of their engineering. It is one thing to say "we interface with more sensors, trust us" and it is quite another to say, "We are more sophisticated than other piggybacks because connect to three additional sensors (xxx, xxx, and xxx) and have the capability to modify target lambda via spoofing o2 data. Attached is a log where you can see we have changed lambda to 13.2 for demonstration purposes."

Last edited by paradoxical3; 12-25-2014 at 12:55 AM..
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      01-05-2015, 07:15 AM   #33
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My Dinan tune gets put on this afternoon if all goes according to plan.
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      01-05-2015, 10:50 AM   #34
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Mine was supposed to be in on the second of Jan, thanks to regular ass mail, I guess it won't happen til late this week or next week. Still waiting for ER to tell me when my DP and charge pipes are going to be shipped.
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      01-10-2015, 08:45 AM   #35
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What numbers are real?

Looking at the graph I'd like to know why there is such a discrepency between BMW stated numbers and Dinans measured numbers prior to the tune. What are the real numbers? Is BMW under reporting, if so why?
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      01-10-2015, 10:59 AM   #36
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Wheel vs crank horsepower
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      01-11-2015, 09:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Wheel vs crank horsepower
Quote:
Originally Posted by johninjax View Post
Looking at the graph I'd like to know why there is such a discrepency between BMW stated numbers and Dinans measured numbers prior to the tune. What are the real numbers? Is BMW under reporting, if so why?
Has nothing to do with wheel versus crank horsepower. BMW rate at the crank as does Dinan. For whatever reason BMW seems to be underrating its engines in this generation by our measuring methods. It is more prevalent in the M lineup but in almost every application we have noted a discrepancy in the ratings versus what we actually measure at stock, especially in the torque department.

Our charts are shown the way they are just so its clear that we are not taking credit for power we do not make. As to the reason why they are being underrated... your guess is as good as ours.
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      01-11-2015, 09:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering View Post
Has nothing to do with wheel versus crank horsepower. BMW rate at the crank as does Dinan. For whatever reason BMW seems to be underrating its engines in this generation by our measuring methods. It is more prevalent in the M lineup but in almost every application we have noted a discrepancy in the ratings versus what we actually measure at stock, especially in the torque department.

Our charts are shown the way they are just so its clear that we are not taking credit for power we do not make. As to the reason why they are being underrated... your guess is as good as ours.
I am an idiot, forgot this was a 28i for a moment. Those numbers are bang-on for whp numbers from the N55 engine.
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      01-13-2015, 08:27 AM   #39
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Any authorized installers in Germany?
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      01-13-2015, 08:56 AM   #40
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Any authorized installers in Germany?
Unfortunately, we do not have any dealers in Germany.

If you are still interested Since their is no dealer close by we could ship a unit directly to you. If you are interested in this possibility give our office a call (1-800-341-5480) and we can explain that process in more detail.
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      01-13-2015, 11:10 AM   #41
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The product description mentions that you can change your mappings via bluetooth. Is this via a specific application?
Are there ways to set preset buttons in idrive to program specific mappings?
Do you have any measured fuel economy results using the new mapping compared to stock?
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      01-13-2015, 11:53 AM   #42
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Quote:
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The product description mentions that you can change your mappings via bluetooth. Is this via a specific application?
Are there ways to set preset buttons in idrive to program specific mappings?
Do you have any measured fuel economy results using the new mapping compared to stock?
We do not test for fuel economy but we have noticed minimal fuel economy difference, if any, when driving normally. The problem is a car is hard to drive 'normal' when it is tuned since you are constantly wanted to gun it, which doesn't lend well to better fuel economy. =)

The maps/bluetooth functionality is strictly a dealer ability at this point. In the X1's case there are no other stages or maps available as of yet anyway so at present there is no feature to speak of. An iOS/Android app is in development that will ultimately be able to do the map/stage changing through bluetooth for the end user. So it would be a specific Dinan app and not anything integrated into iDrive. I have not heard of any definitive release date on it but they have been working on it for quite some time so hopefully sooner rather then later...
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      01-17-2015, 05:08 PM   #43
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Had this installed on Thursday, really disappointed. I think my car actually lost power. Falls on it's face at 5k RPM. Took it back to the dealer yesterday and they confirmed something isn't right. Test drove a 328Xi with the tune and it definitely had a lot more go. Anything we should be looking for? Maybe a faulty box?
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      01-17-2015, 05:39 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twix View Post
Had this installed on Thursday, really disappointed. I think my car actually lost power. Falls on it's face at 5k RPM. Took it back to the dealer yesterday and they confirmed something isn't right. Test drove a 328Xi with the tune and it definitely had a lot more go. Anything we should be looking for? Maybe a faulty box?
Something is definitely wrong then. The 328 tune and the X1 tune are for all practical purposes the same tune. I am sure Calgary has reached out to our technical support although they won't get a response until Monday. Couple things that could be to blame, the software didn't take or it was interrupted when installing. Calgary would be able to hook up to the box and see if this was the case. Harness not fully plugged in perhaps. Could be a bad box as that's not totally unheard of. Or it could be something totally unrelated. Won't know until the tech and warranty talk about it. Regardless, it will get resolved. I will check in with warranty on Monday morning and make sure that your situation gets looked at quickly.

Are you in the Dinan tune 328 as a loaner in the meantime out of curiosity?
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