Repairing run-flats

Vidgamer · 03-05-2017, 01:14 AM

I discovered something this weekend -- some tire shops won't repair run-flats! I picked up a nail, which is not all that unusual. Fortunately, like most of the times I've picked up a nail, I was able to fill with air (I keep an air pump in the car) and keep driving for a while, not relying on the run-flat feature. Given that, I had it patched. The tire shop checks to ensure the integrity of the tire from the inside, but it's up to you to not run the tire on low pressure in a run-flat situation - in that case, the tire is ruined, and you must replace it.

Had it needed replacing (for being run while under low pressure, or due to damage to the sidewall), the tires would have been mis-matched, if adding just one tire. So, I was looking at replacing 2 tires, or probably all 4. This doesn't seem to be a great advantage of run-flats, especially if they're more expensive! I suppose even if you have conventional tires, you can face the same dilemma, but at least replacing all 4 tires would be cheaper in that case.

I read some earlier threads on tires, and it seems like a lot of you just go with conventional and deal with the lack of a spare. It's rare that I use a spare, but sometimes it is handy; I suppose if necessary, you can resort to a tow, but that's annoying. I read some other threads, and I guess I have a few months to decide what to do.

I found an article which said that BMW doesn't recommend replacing run-flats with non-run-flats, saying that it tunes the suspension for the stiff tires. Do you suppose they're saying that to CYA? Or might softer tires cause other problems?

I wouldn't mind some cheaper, less harsh tires as replacements. I figure I have several months left on these tires, but they already are a bit worn at 17k miles. The previous owner must have been a bit aggressive, or these P7s don't last as long as I'd normally expect an all-season to! My previous car had Bridgestone 970AS, and I was pretty happy with those, particularly in the wet. I'm not beyond getting summer tires, although I'm not sure if I'd get full advantage from them.

vstolpner · 03-05-2017, 08:55 AM

If you ever have to do an emergency brake and so within inches of the car in front of you then the summer tires have already paid for themselves. All seasons aren't the best at any season so a single emergency situation and you get the full advantage.

As far as non run flats go - that's the only thing I'll buy these days as I'm sure you've seen in other threads. Technically speaking BMW probably does tune the suspension for run flats, but at the same time the ride is much improved with non run flats. I wouldn't worry about the suspension tuning a just focus on what you prefer in the ride. Just keep in mind it's going to be a touch softer

bucketfoot · 03-05-2017, 09:13 AM

It's not just the tire shop, it's also the tire maker. Some will allow the repair of a run flat and some won't.

fiehlsport · 03-05-2017, 09:50 AM

I'm sure you can repair a run-flat. Would the tire manufacturer guarantee that a run flat would hold air after it's been repaired and gets another puncture? Probably not, but I'm sure it's from a legal standpoint.

It's still just rubber, a standard plug kit will repair a run flat tire without issue. (As long as it's not a sidewall puncture or the tire isn't shredded)

BeEmVe · 03-05-2017, 10:21 AM

My question to the OP is how do you know that though you picked up a nail that you were not relying on the run-flat feature? Did the TPMS kick in?? Even if it did what did the inside of the tire look like? Was there any signs of run flat usage such as marbling?

When we took off our run flats the shop guy asked me about one tire as it was marbled on the inside side wall which is a sign that the tire had been run flat. I said as far as I knew it had never been flat as the TPMS had never signaled anything except when it got to be well below 10F. We looked at the other tires and noticed some very slight marbling as well.

As for for shops not fixing a run flat. The problem is liability. The tire mfg typically defer the car mfg. Also if one has run on a run flat then the clock is ticking. Most are good for 100 miles.

Gamb1t · 03-05-2017, 12:04 PM

IIRC the shops will not perform repairs if the puncture is within a certain distance from an existing the patch or if it is close to the sidewall. Also no repair can be done if the damage is on the sidewall.

I carry a patch kit and compressor in the trunk of my cars.
In terms of rft, I find my X1's 18" Continental SSRs to be quite compliant. YMMV.

Mtpisgah · 03-05-2017, 04:51 PM

I plugged one of my run flats myself with no issue, probably 10k miles ago. I am still trying to decide if I want to go with run flats or non for my next set, but I am leaning towards non for the cost savings and ride quality.

kiloTHREE · 03-05-2017, 07:09 PM

One of our major shops outright refuses to repair tires.
This was explained to me in private that for every repair they turn away they usually get someone to buy new. It's a win win for them, less time and more money.

On the other hand the shop up the road from me will plug and patch anything, even if the tire is 10 years old. No questions asked.
All depends on where you go and who you talk to.

Vidgamer · 03-05-2017, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeEmVe

My question to the OP is how do you know that though you picked up a nail that you were not relying on the run-flat feature?
Did the TPMS kick in?

Yes, exactly. The TPMS did its job. I musta just picked up the nail earlier in the trip. So, after it had sat for about and hour, and I headed to my next destination, that's when I got the warning -- as soon as I started to exit the parking lot. It was between 30 and 35 lbs, and originally, I had set it to 41, per the door. I added air, and took a chance that it was a slow leak. I stopped after a few minutes, and it was holding pretty well, so I knew I could drive for a while on it. When I finally got home, I checked again, and it was still over 30, so it was never driven flat.

Quote:

Even if it did what did the inside of the tire look like? Was there any signs of run flat usage such as marbling?

The tire guys examined it; I didn't see the inside. They said they would let me know if it was not repairable. I get the impression that it's not always obvious if it's been run while flat, although if it's been run a distance, I would think it should be obvious.

Quote:

When we took off our run flats the shop guy asked me about one tire as it was marbled on the inside side wall which is a sign that the tire had been run flat. I said as far as I knew it had never been flat as the TPMS had never signaled anything except when it got to be well below 10F. We looked at the other tires and noticed some very slight marbling as well.

As for for shops not fixing a run flat. The problem is liability. The tire mfg typically defer the car mfg. Also if one has run on a run flat then the clock is ticking. Most are good for 100 miles.

This shop said that they'd not repair it if the tire stated on the side that it was not repairable. The only condition listed on the side of the P7 AS was that it was not repairable if run while flat, if I recall correctly. That makes sense -- I'm sure all run-flats are that way.

Well, I look forward to buying a new set in a few months, so I'll have to obsess about what to get until then. ;-)

vstolpner · 03-05-2017, 08:19 PM

I plugged my old set as well - it was easy and held up a couple thousand km until I had to sell them for a new set.

MajorTranq · 03-06-2017, 12:14 AM

Guys, I totally get non rft tires are superior. If my e84 had the ability to carry a spare without sacrificing trunk space like the f48, I'd say it's a no brainer. However, if you're like me and don't want to sacrifice trunk space for a spare, just realize that plugging a tire on the side of the road, in the middle of the night, in bad weather, might be a challenge. While chances are any flat incurred will be a slow leak, temporarily fixable with a can of slime and/or a small compressor, there's a chance you'll get a larger puncture and be out of range of roadside assistance (I'm a firm AAA believer.) I've had trouble plugging tires in the comfort of my own garage with good lighting. I'm sticking with run-flats in case of worst case scenario. I may be in the minority here

Vidgamer · 03-06-2017, 08:56 AM

There is a convenience factor. I'm trying to get clear in my mind if it is better or worse, overall. It saves you from having to deal with jacking up the car and dealing with the spare. If you had to use the spare to replace a conventional tire, it was probably because something catastrophic happened to the tire, so either way, you're replacing that tire, and probably more than one to keep things even. The worst problem is that any replacements will be more expensive with run-flats.

Sooo... are there run-flats that are better than these stock ones?

bucketfoot · 03-06-2017, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorTranq

Guys, I totally get non rft tires are superior. If my e84 had the ability to carry a spare without sacrificing trunk space like the f48, I'd say it's a no brainer. However, if you're like me and don't want to sacrifice trunk space for a spare, just realize that plugging a tire on the side of the road, in the middle of the night, in bad weather, might be a challenge. While chances are any flat incurred will be a slow leak, temporarily fixable with a can of slime and/or a small compressor, there's a chance you'll get a larger puncture and be out of range of roadside assistance (I'm a firm AAA believer.) I've had trouble plugging tires in the comfort of my own garage with good lighting. I'm sticking with run-flats in case of worst case scenario. I may be in the minority here

This is pretty much where I am as well, especially when you add in the performance benefit of run flats in a blowout situation.

bucketfoot · 03-06-2017, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vidgamer

The worst problem is that any replacements will be more expensive with run-flats.

You know I keep hearing people say this, but I've kind of been looking at what I might want to get for replacement tires down the road and I'm not seeing the big delta everyone is talking about.

Most of the non-RFT tires I've looked at are in the $140-170 range, while the RFTs are basically in the upper end of that same range. There might be a couple that are $10-20 more per tire, but that's not enough for me to consider the expense as a factor in the slightest.

Gamb1t · 03-06-2017, 11:08 AM

A can of fix-a-flat, patch kit and compressor were standard on light-weight performance oriented sports cars prior to RFTs. Oh... and Roadside Assist.

3rd and 4th gen RFTs are pretty good now. They have come along ways. While I have not had the pleasure on the early RFTs, I don't seem to find much difference on modern RFTs vs non in terms of comfort. Maybe I have numb bums.

Vidgamer · 03-06-2017, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucketfoot

You know I keep hearing people say this, but I've kind of been looking at what I might want to get for replacement tires down the road and I'm not seeing the big delta everyone is talking about.

Most of the non-RFT tires I've looked at are in the $140-170 range, while the RFTs are basically in the upper end of that same range. There might be a couple that are $10-20 more per tire, but that's not enough for me to consider the expense as a factor in the slightest.

Can you be more specific? Even on Tirerack (which seems to be less expensive than the tire shops or maybe even Costco), the cheapest run flats I found were the ones that are on the car (P7 all-season) and the summer version of the P7, both around $185, except that it also lists them, or some variation, at $280. I can't tell what the difference is. Anyway, other tires seem to be $200+.

Meanwhile, the tires I had on my previous car, the Bridgestone 970AS, are listed on TR for $151. Hard to tell exactly, but RFTs seem more expensive so far as I can tell?

vstolpner · 03-06-2017, 02:17 PM

Run flats are also heavier and hence will burn more fuel. Over the life of a set of tires that can be quite a large difference. They're also more ridgid and likely have lower rolling resistance, but I imagine the weight offsets that.

Vidgamer · 03-06-2017, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vstolpner

Run flats are also heavier and hence will burn more fuel. Over the life of a set of tires that can be quite a large difference. They're also more ridgid and likely have lower rolling resistance, but I imagine the weight offsets that.

But weight is saved by not having a spare and jack. According the BMW statement I found, that's their motivation? I suspect it also has to do with not wanting to compromise on the already-small trunk space.

vstolpner · 03-06-2017, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vidgamer

But weight is saved by not having a spare and jack. According the BMW statement I found, that's their motivation? I suspect it also has to do with not wanting to compromise on the already-small trunk space.

True, I'm referring to a can of slime and a compressor in the trunk instead of a spare

nicknaz · 03-06-2017, 06:52 PM

if it's in the tread and you haven't driven it without air, you can repair it.

I have repaired one in my driveway (with one of those kits from Amazon) after seeing a BMW tech (friend of a friend) do the same thing on another one of my RFT (unofficially, since the dealer policy was not to repair RFT)

EDIT: I would suggest keeping one of those repair kits, pliers, and 12V air compressor and using those tools first (have personally had many thousands of miles of use on the repaired tires), before the slime in a can (which, from past experience, don't work.. barely made it 12 mile to a shop)

jaeezzy · 03-06-2017, 06:56 PM

IIRC, I think I was told that P7 cinturato run-flat that happened to come with X1 was not repairable for punctures. I think I was told that some run-flats are repairable but not this one

So, I had a nail stuck when I had just done around 6000 km and had to get a whole new tire for AUD $380. Now I'm running non-rft for almost a year - ContiSC3 in the front and Michelin SS in the rear (as my SC3 in the rear wore out like it didn't care). Lo and behold, there it was again, shining near the edge of the tire like it belongs there, just after a week of putting new SS on

However, I was able to ride with it still stuck in the tire as the air wasn't leaking and my heart was broken

So, took it to the tire shop only after a week or so and man was I happy - I got it fixed for just AUD $35. Lady in the reception cracked a joke and asked for $85 and I was ready and happy to pay the amt coz I wasn't sure how much to expect for the repair and it was still way cheaper than replacing the whole tire

Also, I don't have spare but just the repair kit from BMW in the trunk.

GTony · 03-06-2017, 07:28 PM

Had slow leak in one of my RFT's and BMW Service repaired it. Might have even got a Tire shop to come in and do it.
I have a Non RF Staggered Set Up now and recently replaced my down to the tread line Original RFT's with 4x Non RF's onto the RF Rims. One lost air and luckily the tire monitor picked it up when i was in town, down from 40 psi to 17 psi but i drove a bit to find a park spot. I just got my Digital Pump out re inflated and drove to my tire shop, they repaired, taking a screw out.

03-05-2017, 01:14 AM	#1
Vidgamer Private First Class 10 Rep 128 Posts Drives: BMW X1 e84 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Orlando, Florida iTrader: (0)	Repairing run-flats I discovered something this weekend -- some tire shops won't repair run-flats! I picked up a nail, which is not all that unusual. Fortunately, like most of the times I've picked up a nail, I was able to fill with air (I keep an air pump in the car) and keep driving for a while, not relying on the run-flat feature. Given that, I had it patched. The tire shop checks to ensure the integrity of the tire from the inside, but it's up to you to not run the tire on low pressure in a run-flat situation - in that case, the tire is ruined, and you must replace it. Had it needed replacing (for being run while under low pressure, or due to damage to the sidewall), the tires would have been mis-matched, if adding just one tire. So, I was looking at replacing 2 tires, or probably all 4. This doesn't seem to be a great advantage of run-flats, especially if they're more expensive! I suppose even if you have conventional tires, you can face the same dilemma, but at least replacing all 4 tires would be cheaper in that case. I read some earlier threads on tires, and it seems like a lot of you just go with conventional and deal with the lack of a spare. It's rare that I use a spare, but sometimes it is handy; I suppose if necessary, you can resort to a tow, but that's annoying. I read some other threads, and I guess I have a few months to decide what to do. I found an article which said that BMW doesn't recommend replacing run-flats with non-run-flats, saying that it tunes the suspension for the stiff tires. Do you suppose they're saying that to CYA? Or might softer tires cause other problems? I wouldn't mind some cheaper, less harsh tires as replacements. I figure I have several months left on these tires, but they already are a bit worn at 17k miles. The previous owner must have been a bit aggressive, or these P7s don't last as long as I'd normally expect an all-season to! My previous car had Bridgestone 970AS, and I was pretty happy with those, particularly in the wet. I'm not beyond getting summer tires, although I'm not sure if I'd get full advantage from them.
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03-05-2017, 08:55 AM	#2
vstolpner Captain 25 Rep 673 Posts Drives: 2019 F39 X2 m35i Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	If you ever have to do an emergency brake and so within inches of the car in front of you then the summer tires have already paid for themselves. All seasons aren't the best at any season so a single emergency situation and you get the full advantage. As far as non run flats go - that's the only thing I'll buy these days as I'm sure you've seen in other threads. Technically speaking BMW probably does tune the suspension for run flats, but at the same time the ride is much improved with non run flats. I wouldn't worry about the suspension tuning a just focus on what you prefer in the ride. Just keep in mind it's going to be a touch softer
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03-05-2017, 09:13 AM	#3
bucketfoot Captain 1064 Rep 819 Posts Drives: 2020 Toyota GT86 Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Centennial, CO iTrader: (0)	It's not just the tire shop, it's also the tire maker. Some will allow the repair of a run flat and some won't.
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03-05-2017, 09:50 AM	#4
fiehlsport Second Lieutenant 49 Rep 283 Posts Drives: '13 X1 xDrive35i Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Endwell, NY iTrader: (1)	I'm sure you can repair a run-flat. Would the tire manufacturer guarantee that a run flat would hold air after it's been repaired and gets another puncture? Probably not, but I'm sure it's from a legal standpoint. It's still just rubber, a standard plug kit will repair a run flat tire without issue. (As long as it's not a sidewall puncture or the tire isn't shredded)
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03-05-2017, 10:21 AM	#5
BeEmVe Lieutenant 258 Rep 566 Posts Drives: '14 X1 x28i M-Sport Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: on the road to perdition iTrader: (1)	My question to the OP is how do you know that though you picked up a nail that you were not relying on the run-flat feature? Did the TPMS kick in?? Even if it did what did the inside of the tire look like? Was there any signs of run flat usage such as marbling? When we took off our run flats the shop guy asked me about one tire as it was marbled on the inside side wall which is a sign that the tire had been run flat. I said as far as I knew it had never been flat as the TPMS had never signaled anything except when it got to be well below 10F. We looked at the other tires and noticed some very slight marbling as well. As for for shops not fixing a run flat. The problem is liability. The tire mfg typically defer the car mfg. Also if one has run on a run flat then the clock is ticking. Most are good for 100 miles.
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03-05-2017, 12:04 PM	#6
Gamb1t Major 598 Rep 1,343 Posts Drives: 330i,X1,Z4,Solstice GXP, RX-8 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Canukistan iTrader: (0)	IIRC the shops will not perform repairs if the puncture is within a certain distance from an existing the patch or if it is close to the sidewall. Also no repair can be done if the damage is on the sidewall. I carry a patch kit and compressor in the trunk of my cars. In terms of rft, I find my X1's 18" Continental SSRs to be quite compliant. YMMV. Last edited by Gamb1t; 03-05-2017 at 05:35 PM..
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03-05-2017, 04:51 PM	#7
Mtpisgah Private First Class 14 Rep 148 Posts Drives: 2010 WRX & 2013 X1 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Greenville, SC iTrader: (0)	I plugged one of my run flats myself with no issue, probably 10k miles ago. I am still trying to decide if I want to go with run flats or non for my next set, but I am leaning towards non for the cost savings and ride quality.
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03-05-2017, 07:09 PM	#8
kiloTHREE Lieutenant 76 Rep 435 Posts Drives: '13 xDrive28i Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: MN iTrader: (0)	One of our major shops outright refuses to repair tires. This was explained to me in private that for every repair they turn away they usually get someone to buy new. It's a win win for them, less time and more money. On the other hand the shop up the road from me will plug and patch anything, even if the tire is 10 years old. No questions asked. All depends on where you go and who you talk to.
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03-05-2017, 08:19 PM	#10
vstolpner Captain 25 Rep 673 Posts Drives: 2019 F39 X2 m35i Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	I plugged my old set as well - it was easy and held up a couple thousand km until I had to sell them for a new set.
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03-06-2017, 12:14 AM	#11
MajorTranq Enlisted Member 6 Rep 35 Posts Drives: X1 35i Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Ca, USA iTrader: (0)	Guys, I totally get non rft tires are superior. If my e84 had the ability to carry a spare without sacrificing trunk space like the f48, I'd say it's a no brainer. However, if you're like me and don't want to sacrifice trunk space for a spare, just realize that plugging a tire on the side of the road, in the middle of the night, in bad weather, might be a challenge. While chances are any flat incurred will be a slow leak, temporarily fixable with a can of slime and/or a small compressor, there's a chance you'll get a larger puncture and be out of range of roadside assistance (I'm a firm AAA believer.) I've had trouble plugging tires in the comfort of my own garage with good lighting. I'm sticking with run-flats in case of worst case scenario. I may be in the minority here
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03-06-2017, 08:56 AM	#12
Vidgamer Private First Class 10 Rep 128 Posts Drives: BMW X1 e84 Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Orlando, Florida iTrader: (0)	There is a convenience factor. I'm trying to get clear in my mind if it is better or worse, overall. It saves you from having to deal with jacking up the car and dealing with the spare. If you had to use the spare to replace a conventional tire, it was probably because something catastrophic happened to the tire, so either way, you're replacing that tire, and probably more than one to keep things even. The worst problem is that any replacements will be more expensive with run-flats. Sooo... are there run-flats that are better than these stock ones?
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03-06-2017, 11:08 AM	#15
Gamb1t Major 598 Rep 1,343 Posts Drives: 330i,X1,Z4,Solstice GXP, RX-8 Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Canukistan iTrader: (0)	A can of fix-a-flat, patch kit and compressor were standard on light-weight performance oriented sports cars prior to RFTs. Oh... and Roadside Assist. 3rd and 4th gen RFTs are pretty good now. They have come along ways. While I have not had the pleasure on the early RFTs, I don't seem to find much difference on modern RFTs vs non in terms of comfort. Maybe I have numb bums.
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03-06-2017, 02:17 PM	#17
vstolpner Captain 25 Rep 673 Posts Drives: 2019 F39 X2 m35i Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (0)	Run flats are also heavier and hence will burn more fuel. Over the life of a set of tires that can be quite a large difference. They're also more ridgid and likely have lower rolling resistance, but I imagine the weight offsets that.
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03-06-2017, 06:52 PM	#20
nicknaz Lieutenant General 3187 Rep 10,509 Posts Drives: C6Z Join Date: May 2008 Location: NorCal iTrader: (0)	if it's in the tread and you haven't driven it without air, you can repair it. I have repaired one in my driveway (with one of those kits from Amazon) after seeing a BMW tech (friend of a friend) do the same thing on another one of my RFT (unofficially, since the dealer policy was not to repair RFT) EDIT: I would suggest keeping one of those repair kits, pliers, and 12V air compressor and using those tools first (have personally had many thousands of miles of use on the repaired tires), before the slime in a can (which, from past experience, don't work.. barely made it 12 mile to a shop)
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03-06-2017, 06:56 PM	#21
jaeezzy Enthusiast 28 Rep 305 Posts Drives: BMW X1 sDrive18d M Sport Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Australia iTrader: (0)	IIRC, I think I was told that P7 cinturato run-flat that happened to come with X1 was not repairable for punctures. I think I was told that some run-flats are repairable but not this one So, I had a nail stuck when I had just done around 6000 km and had to get a whole new tire for AUD $380. Now I'm running non-rft for almost a year - ContiSC3 in the front and Michelin SS in the rear (as my SC3 in the rear wore out like it didn't care). Lo and behold, there it was again, shining near the edge of the tire like it belongs there, just after a week of putting new SS on However, I was able to ride with it still stuck in the tire as the air wasn't leaking and my heart was broken So, took it to the tire shop only after a week or so and man was I happy - I got it fixed for just AUD $35. Lady in the reception cracked a joke and asked for $85 and I was ready and happy to pay the amt coz I wasn't sure how much to expect for the repair and it was still way cheaper than replacing the whole tire Also, I don't have spare but just the repair kit from BMW in the trunk. __________________ ... jaeezzy...
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03-06-2017, 07:28 PM	#22
GTony First Lieutenant 28 Rep 330 Posts Drives: 2015 X3 F25 XDrive 28i M Sport Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Queensland iTrader: (0)	Had slow leak in one of my RFT's and BMW Service repaired it. Might have even got a Tire shop to come in and do it. I have a Non RF Staggered Set Up now and recently replaced my down to the tread line Original RFT's with 4x Non RF's onto the RF Rims. One lost air and luckily the tire monitor picked it up when i was in town, down from 40 psi to 17 psi but i drove a bit to find a park spot. I just got my Digital Pump out re inflated and drove to my tire shop, they repaired, taking a screw out.
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