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      03-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #1
BigDave
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Warning - Stop Start not working

My stop start has not been working for about 2 months so I took it to my local dealer Eastern BMW in Edinburgh. They found that the battery was severely discharged due to me using the car for mostly short journeys. They charged me £108 for investigating the fault and charging the battery overnight.

I was not happy with this and have made a complaint direct to BMW. Surely during development of the X1 they tested it under these conditions? I have heated seats and auto lights which I think use a lot of power. What i am saying to BMW is that the battery and alternator should be heavy duty to cope with the short journeys and power all of the electrical items on my car.
The car is only 15 months old and I should not have to pay for this.

I am still awaiting a reply from BMW.

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      03-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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Hi Dave, how often you used your car? In the last few weeks I used my car only once or twice a week for a drive of 10-15km, should I expect similar problems?

I am surprised the battery drains so fast, on my previous car (a Fiat) I had no problems to start the car even after three weeks of immobility.
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      03-14-2012, 02:27 PM   #3
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The car should still be under warranty and if there is a fault BMW should not charge you. That said I am sure in the handbook it does say Stop Start will not work if battery is drained and heated seats on short journeys will drain battery, that's also mentioned. If the car is diesel you may have problems with the Cat Converter soon as well as short runs do not generate enough heat to burn off some particles that damage Cat. I reckon you should put it on a duel carriageway/motorway once a fortnight/month and enjoy the ride while charging the battery and heating the Cat
Good luck...
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      03-15-2012, 09:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebulba View Post
Hi Dave, how often you used your car? In the last few weeks I used my car only once or twice a week for a drive of 10-15km, should I expect similar problems?

I am surprised the battery drains so fast, on my previous car (a Fiat) I had no problems to start the car even after three weeks of immobility.
Hi Sebulba,

I use my car everyday approx 6-8 miles. In 15 months I have only done 8000 miles. During the winter months when temperature was below 3 degrees stop/start does not work. I had heated seats on, charged my mobile and lights on auto (during winter lights are on most days). My last car was a Toyota TAV4. Had it 3.5 years and only done 24,000 miles. It didn't have stop/start but had no problem with battery.
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      03-15-2012, 09:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Bottle View Post
The car should still be under warranty and if there is a fault BMW should not charge you. That said I am sure in the handbook it does say Stop Start will not work if battery is drained and heated seats on short journeys will drain battery, that's also mentioned. If the car is diesel you may have problems with the Cat Converter soon as well as short runs do not generate enough heat to burn off some particles that damage Cat. I reckon you should put it on a duel carriageway/motorway once a fortnight/month and enjoy the ride while charging the battery and heating the Cat
Good luck...
Hi Blue Bottle,

Got reply back from BMW. It is all my fault for all my short journeys and probably using heated seats, auto lights during winter months. My reply back is that during testing the R & D dept should test car for all types of customer. They test in cold & hot conditions, so must test for long journeys and short journeys. Car should be fit for any purpose. I have done nothing wrong yet I have to pay.

I know about the DPF and should really take the car on a long run at least once a month. Although dealer said that taking it on a long run would not have fully charged battery. Not sure of they are trying it on or not. I await BMW's reply.

Thanks for your comments.
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      03-17-2012, 12:10 PM   #6
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Big Dave,

Understand your points and I drive very short distance during the week as well, mine only 2 months old so I may well get your issues. Think heated seats may not be used so much now then..and to be fair you don't read the handbook until after you have brought the car do you...

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Last edited by Blue Bottle; 03-17-2012 at 03:50 PM..
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      03-19-2012, 03:16 PM   #7
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I do 13 miles per day on average - two 6.5 mile trips. Don't get above 40mph.

Car has done 6500 miles - I have heated steering wheel and seats and use them (though it's not too cold here - coldest this winter has been -1, normally 5 or so).

Auto so no start/stop - thankfully - I hate that feature.

No problems with battery. Car has been away on long trips twice in 14 months.

Personally , if I had the auto stop/start, I'd always turn it off - especially in winter - I'm sure it saves the planet, however i remember all those years of oil adverts saying the highest wear (and battery draw!) was when starting up.
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      03-19-2012, 05:37 PM   #8
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Hi BigDave,

Start/stop logic takes into consideration lot of parameters when deciding if it should switch off the motor - is drivers seat belt fastened? Is motor on standard working temperature? Is AC working on full power? Is batery chrged enough? ...
One of important parameters is outside temperature. If it is +3 C or below then start/stop is not working. So no surprise it was not working for two months, during winter in Scotland ;-)
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      03-19-2012, 07:44 PM   #9
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We don't have the option of Auto Start-Stop here in Canada, but BMW must know that there are battery issues as my dealer included (for an extra fee of course) a battery charger when I ordered my car "to keep the battery properly conditioned" if I didn't drive the car for a while. I don't pay for extras like that, so I removed it from my order. But it raises a good question.

Our X1s also have brake-energy regeneration systems designed to capture energy while braking and charge the battery. This made me wonder... this sounds like a silly question, but do our cars have traditional alternators? Maybe these were removed in the name of weight savings, like the spare tire was, and that's why the battery can't be charged efficiently? Or maybe they used smaller, lighter weight alternators that aren't as powerful? Every other car I've ever had never exhibited drained batteries, even after sitting out in 2 weeks of sub -20C winter temperatures without being used.
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      03-20-2012, 07:56 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWB1873 View Post
I do 13 miles per day on average - two 6.5 mile trips. Don't get above 40mph.

Car has done 6500 miles - I have heated steering wheel and seats and use them (though it's not too cold here - coldest this winter has been -1, normally 5 or so).

Auto so no start/stop - thankfully - I hate that feature.

No problems with battery. Car has been away on long trips twice in 14 months.

Personally , if I had the auto stop/start, I'd always turn it off - especially in winter - I'm sure it saves the planet, however i remember all those years of oil adverts saying the highest wear (and battery draw!) was when starting up.
Hi DWB1873,

Even if I had switched stop/start off battery would still be draining due to amount of short journeys. I would probably have went to my car one day and battery would be dead.
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      03-20-2012, 08:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead_billy View Post
Hi BigDave,

Start/stop logic takes into consideration lot of parameters when deciding if it should switch off the motor - is drivers seat belt fastened? Is motor on standard working temperature? Is AC working on full power? Is batery chrged enough? ...
One of important parameters is outside temperature. If it is +3 C or below then start/stop is not working. So no surprise it was not working for two months, during winter in Scotland ;-)
Hi dead billy,

I checked all of the parameters in the manual and all were OK. This winter in scotland has been really mild and with temperature above 3 c stop/start should have worked. I'll just need to go on a long run each month to keep battery topped up. Defeats the purpose of having stop/start to help towards saving the planet.
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      03-20-2012, 08:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantanx View Post
We don't have the option of Auto Start-Stop here in Canada, but BMW must know that there are battery issues as my dealer included (for an extra fee of course) a battery charger when I ordered my car "to keep the battery properly conditioned" if I didn't drive the car for a while. I don't pay for extras like that, so I removed it from my order. But it raises a good question.

Our X1s also have brake-energy regeneration systems designed to capture energy while braking and charge the battery. This made me wonder... this sounds like a silly question, but do our cars have traditional alternators? Maybe these were removed in the name of weight savings, like the spare tire was, and that's why the battery can't be charged efficiently? Or maybe they used smaller, lighter weight alternators that aren't as powerful? Every other car I've ever had never exhibited drained batteries, even after sitting out in 2 weeks of sub -20C winter temperatures without being used.
Hi iwantanx,

That's an interesting point on the battery charger. I'll maybe invest in one. I know the battery is heavy duty but not sure about the alternator. Not sure how the brake energy regeneration works. For economy reasons I brake early and gently. Maybe you are supposed to brake heavily to keep battery charged!! My previous car was a Toyota RAV4. I drove it under the same conditions and never had a problem in over 3 years. Mentioned this to BMW and my comment was ignored. If you google BMW stop/start problems you will get lots of hits. Seems they have been having problems for years with this system.
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      03-21-2012, 04:34 PM   #13
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Hi,

the "thing" that causes the battery issues is called "EfficientDynamics". This tech, introduced a few years ago, uses the car's battery to save fuel. When the engine is cold and just got started up, the generator runs with no or very limited output. (Seat) heating, rear window defrost, etc. are all powered by the battery.

This leaves the battery sometimes "half empty".
When you do only short trips in winter and leave your car for 2 or 3 weeks w/o driving it, battery levels could fall to a point where the car doesn't start any more, or start/stop does not work.

The efficient dynamics stuff charges your battery when you're going downhill or cruising on highway speeds.
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      03-27-2012, 06:12 AM   #14
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With Brake Energy Regeneration, BMW EfficientDynamics points the way to a more energy-efficient future. As soon as you brake or take your foot off the accelerator, the kinetic energy is captured and fed to the battery. This reduces the amount of power the battery takes from the engine and hence lowers fuel consumption. When the driver presses the accelerator, on the other hand, the alternator is decoupled from the drivetrain. With fewer components drawing power from the drivetrain, more of the engine's output can go into accelerating the car.

From BMW pages
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      03-27-2012, 07:24 AM   #15
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Thanks for the explanation Blue Bottle. When going downhill I always take my foot off the gas. If traffic lights are at red I do the same and just coast to a stop. If I wasn't doing this my battery condition would be worse!
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      03-27-2012, 07:36 AM   #16
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Question

Hi to all one thing that seem's to be missing,regarding the battery is the alternator is suposed to cut in ?? as normal and run normally when the battery is low thus cutting off the start/stop, also when under heavy battery load.So in theory the battery should be able to cope with slight less power/acceleration.
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      03-27-2012, 07:44 AM   #17
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BD -As I read it - In short, if you are pressing the gas you are not charging the battery- Coasting and breaking will, so I will change my driving style when I can to get the most from this function and hopefully save these problems happing to me.
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      08-20-2012, 09:35 AM   #18
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This is an issue that concerns me since I plan on purchasing an X1 and recently found out that this issue might be throughout the entire X vehicle lineup. A coworker experienced the battery discharge problem with her X3 last week and was told by the dealer that she drives the car improperly. An addendum to the manual states ( I can't confirm this, maybe someone can) that the vehicle needs to be driven for at least 10 miles at highway speed every day to properly charge the battery. This information was not presented to her before she purchased the X3 and since she has a similar commute as mine, ~ 6 miles on local streets, it might happen again.
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      08-20-2012, 09:43 AM   #19
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Ste92ve - had mine for over 8 months now and do not drive anywhere close to 10 miles a day, Monday to Friday. Not had any issues at all but am mind full to coast down hills and roll into traffic lights/stops etc.
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      08-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #20
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Great. Another way the X1 is going to disappoint me, and yet another way it makes my TDI Golf look like some kind of miracle super wonder car by comparison.

When I'm not biking in, I commute 1.5 miles to work, home for lunch, and back. Every day. My TDI Golf can handle this and has for 5+ years. And that despite the diesel glow plugs putting extra strain on the battery on each cold start.

Short commutes will kill the X1? Say what?
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      08-20-2012, 06:34 PM   #21
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So your one of those people that believe everything you read on the Internet.
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      08-21-2012, 03:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Bottle View Post
With Brake Energy Regeneration, BMW EfficientDynamics points the way to a more energy-efficient future. As soon as you brake or take your foot off the accelerator, the kinetic energy is captured and fed to the battery. This reduces the amount of power the battery takes from the engine and hence lowers fuel consumption. When the driver presses the accelerator, on the other hand, the alternator is decoupled from the drivetrain. With fewer components drawing power from the drivetrain, more of the engine's output can go into accelerating the car.

From BMW pages
This makes the claim of dead batteries ring true for me. It does seem to be a cause for concern.

While I never turn my heated seats on unless it's a long drive, it doesn't sound as if you can turn this feature OFF. Or can you?

As it is, after a week of driving 1.5mi to work in winter, I can kill my battery by the end of a week. I never put as much current back into the battery as the long glow plug heating takes out. I end up driving to work in second gear, in the hopes that the extra RPM will put more alternator juice into the battery. It's a pain, but works, "mostly." There are 2-4 mornings per winter when I jump in the car, and the battery can't start the car.

I was hoping to avoid such concerns by switching to a gas car. Sigh.
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