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      01-07-2016, 05:23 PM   #155
vstolpner
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I was talking about the base price. The X1 started at $37K while the 3 series AWD wagon started at $47K (CDN). I'm not sure if the 3 series wagon came loaded or not, but I'm fairly certain features were similar and didn't account for $10K difference.
I can't speak to the size comparison as I want looking at the wagon closely.

Either way, JMHO
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      01-07-2016, 06:52 PM   #156
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As they say everything is relative. We were looking for a subcompact SUV and
narrowed down to X1, Hyundai Tuscon, and Mazda CX-5. The CX-3 is a cool vehicle but it really is a shoe box.

X1 with ultimate, HK, and cold weather 42,700 list and purchase 37 something plus a 62% residual which made leasing a decent option.

CX-5 was 34 and change loaded and Hyundai was 35 and change loaded.
Nothing special on discounts or leases. So the BMW was the best option for us in a market where nothing screamed 'buy' me.

Hyundai really had some nice features but 170HP vs 240 and wheels that look horrible.

Mazda CX-5 just a little too plain jane no power pass seat bland interior and 150hp.

So if I was buying BMW comparably equipped was maybe 4 grand more than a Hyundai and 5 grand more than a Mazda.

Overall it seems the BMW SUV's are not as aggressively leased as the sedans.

Just some random comments.
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      01-08-2016, 09:05 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstolpner View Post
I was talking about the base price. The X1 started at $37K while the 3 series AWD wagon started at $47K (CDN). I'm not sure if the 3 series wagon came loaded or not, but I'm fairly certain features were similar and didn't account for $10K difference.
I can't speak to the size comparison as I want looking at the wagon closely.

Either way, JMHO
The 3 wagon is considerably larger.
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      01-09-2016, 11:30 PM   #158
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Well there's that then. Still prefer the X1
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      01-18-2016, 04:59 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstolpner View Post
I was talking about the base price. The X1 started at $37K while the 3 series AWD wagon started at $47K (CDN). I'm not sure if the 3 series wagon came loaded or not, but I'm fairly certain features were similar and didn't account for $10K difference.
I can't speak to the size comparison as I want looking at the wagon closely.

Either way, JMHO
3 series wagon is much larger also has much nicer interior and features you cannot get on X1 like heated rear seats. 3 series is made in Munich I believe and X1 is made in Eastern Germany which is probably cheaper place to build cars.
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      05-12-2016, 05:45 PM   #160
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Spent some time behind the wheel of the new BMW X1 and want to share my thoughts. I figure some of you might be interested in this controversial model since it is the first BMW in the US that is based on FWD based platform.

Let me begin by saying that I am a big fan of the old X1, that had a very short life cycle here in the USA (2012-2015). When it was introduced I immediately liked it a lot better than X3. Just like X3 it was based on the 3 series platform, but instead of being a boring cute-ute like the X3, it is a lifted wagon with an aggressive, muscular stance. Back in 2012 a neighbor of mine bought one - with then newly introduced LED angel eyes and roaring twin turbo inline 6, and I absolutely loved the looks of his car. So much so that in 2014 when my daughter needed a new car to replace her totaled Suzuki Grand Vitara, I called my BMW salesman and got an amazing lease deal on an ultimate edition 2015 X1. It is a four cylinder 2.8 xdrive model, but it's got every available option and it is just an amazing value. It is worth mentioning that at the time the X1 was the cheapest available BMW, with lower base price than the cheapest 3 series.

I brought it in for service yesterday and they gave me the new 2016 X1 loaner. I drove a bunch of new BMW loaners lately, including 328xi, 528xi, X4 M40i, X3 2.8i - and with exception for the X4 M40i I did not like any of them. The new 328xi loaners were downright disappointing, as the car completely lost its sporty roots and has driving dynamics of a Camry. Needless to say that I didn't expect much from the new X1. In fact I had a very biased attitude toward it, and pretty much wanted it to be terrible. But I was in for a a pleasant surprise.

On the exterior I really like the dual rear exhaust (old X1 was a single exhaust even on the 35i model) and of course the cool LED headlights. However, to me the overall exterior styling was better on the old X1. The new X1 is larger and more mellow. It looks like a little stylish SUV versus a muscular lifted wagon.

Moving onto interior, it is a lot better than the old model. The materials are not better, but they are better styled and look more up to date. The assembly quality however is a lot better, there are no rattles or wind noise, and the car has a much more upscale overall look and feel. There is quite a bit more interior and cargo room. The seating position is more comfortable. There are finally adequate cupholders! In the old X1 one cup holder is obstructing with handrest and the other one is a silly clip-on. But for a real delight, unlike all other new BMW models, it has a traditional MECHANICAL shifter!!! Not the electronic nonsense that I passionately hate in all other BMWs, but a nicely placed and shaped mechanical shifter that moves straight backwards and forwards without any zig-zag nonsense.

Next is the engine. I have mixed feelings about this. There is now only the 2.8i vs 2.8i and 3.5i options on the outgoing model, but the new 2.8i engine is a LOT more refined than the old one. In the old X1 (and all other 2.8 BMWs I've driven) the 4 cylinder engine is rough and unrefined, producing all sorts of vibrations and harsh, trashy noise. The new one is very nice and smooth - as good as they get for a four cylinder. On the other hand however, the old X1 engine feels a lot more responsive and a lot more powerful. On paper specs the old X1 does have 14hp advantage, but on pavement it feels like a lot more. I guess BMW gave it a less aggressive tune to make it more refined.

But here's the real kicker - handling and driving dynamics. With FWD biased drivetrain I absolutely expected this car to have terrible driving dynamics, especially when even the new 328xi is such a lousy drive - but instead I was very impressed. The car handles highway curves and quick turns very well, and BMW did a great job with electronic steering on this model. The turn in is nice and quick, and the steering is sharper, quicker and more "pointy" than the old X1 with mechanical steering. The steering is tuned so well that on especially quick turns it even feels like it oversteers a bit. If I didn't know the car was FWD biased, there is no way I could tell just by driving it. It has the balance of RWD biased AWD system, and doesn't even have the slightest hint of torque steer no matter how hard I tried to induce it. I guess the FWD bias could become apparent at the limit, but for public roads it has better driving dynamics than most new BMWs.

Overall it is a much better car than it replaced. With an exception of a very few things, it does everything better. But then it's base price is also about $5k higher than the outgoing model and there are many other excellent FWD based SUVs (Lexus NX, Acura RDX) in its price range out there, and without winning any enthusiast points for the traditional BMW drivetrain it is up for some tough competition. So far the new X1 is selling a lot slower than the previous model.
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      05-13-2016, 04:58 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by och View Post
Spent some time behind the wheel of the new BMW X1 and want to share my thoughts. I figure some of you might be interested in this controversial model since it is the first BMW in the US that is based on FWD based platform.

Let me begin by saying that I am a big fan of the old X1, that had a very short life cycle here in the USA (2012-2015). When it was introduced I immediately liked it a lot better than X3. Just like X3 it was based on the 3 series platform, but instead of being a boring cute-ute like the X3, it is a lifted wagon with an aggressive, muscular stance. Back in 2012 a neighbor of mine bought one - with then newly introduced LED angel eyes and roaring twin turbo inline 6, and I absolutely loved the looks of his car. So much so that in 2014 when my daughter needed a new car to replace her totaled Suzuki Grand Vitara, I called my BMW salesman and got an amazing lease deal on an ultimate edition 2015 X1. It is a four cylinder 2.8 xdrive model, but it's got every available option and it is just an amazing value. It is worth mentioning that at the time the X1 was the cheapest available BMW, with lower base price than the cheapest 3 series.

I brought it in for service yesterday and they gave me the new 2016 X1 loaner. I drove a bunch of new BMW loaners lately, including 328xi, 528xi, X4 M40i, X3 2.8i - and with exception for the X4 M40i I did not like any of them. The new 328xi loaners were downright disappointing, as the car completely lost its sporty roots and has driving dynamics of a Camry. Needless to say that I didn't expect much from the new X1. In fact I had a very biased attitude toward it, and pretty much wanted it to be terrible. But I was in for a a pleasant surprise.

On the exterior I really like the dual rear exhaust (old X1 was a single exhaust even on the 35i model) and of course the cool LED headlights. However, to me the overall exterior styling was better on the old X1. The new X1 is larger and more mellow. It looks like a little stylish SUV versus a muscular lifted wagon.

Moving onto interior, it is a lot better than the old model. The materials are not better, but they are better styled and look more up to date. The assembly quality however is a lot better, there are no rattles or wind noise, and the car has a much more upscale overall look and feel. There is quite a bit more interior and cargo room. The seating position is more comfortable. There are finally adequate cupholders! In the old X1 one cup holder is obstructing with handrest and the other one is a silly clip-on. But for a real delight, unlike all other new BMW models, it has a traditional MECHANICAL shifter!!! Not the electronic nonsense that I passionately hate in all other BMWs, but a nicely placed and shaped mechanical shifter that moves straight backwards and forwards without any zig-zag nonsense.

Next is the engine. I have mixed feelings about this. There is now only the 2.8i vs 2.8i and 3.5i options on the outgoing model, but the new 2.8i engine is a LOT more refined than the old one. In the old X1 (and all other 2.8 BMWs I've driven) the 4 cylinder engine is rough and unrefined, producing all sorts of vibrations and harsh, trashy noise. The new one is very nice and smooth - as good as they get for a four cylinder. On the other hand however, the old X1 engine feels a lot more responsive and a lot more powerful. On paper specs the old X1 does have 14hp advantage, but on pavement it feels like a lot more. I guess BMW gave it a less aggressive tune to make it more refined.

But here's the real kicker - handling and driving dynamics. With FWD biased drivetrain I absolutely expected this car to have terrible driving dynamics, especially when even the new 328xi is such a lousy drive - but instead I was very impressed. The car handles highway curves and quick turns very well, and BMW did a great job with electronic steering on this model. The turn in is nice and quick, and the steering is sharper, quicker and more "pointy" than the old X1 with mechanical steering. The steering is tuned so well that on especially quick turns it even feels like it oversteers a bit. If I didn't know the car was FWD biased, there is no way I could tell just by driving it. It has the balance of RWD biased AWD system, and doesn't even have the slightest hint of torque steer no matter how hard I tried to induce it. I guess the FWD bias could become apparent at the limit, but for public roads it has better driving dynamics than most new BMWs.

Overall it is a much better car than it replaced. With an exception of a very few things, it does everything better. But then it's base price is also about $5k higher than the outgoing model and there are many other excellent FWD based SUVs (Lexus NX, Acura RDX) in its price range out there, and without winning any enthusiast points for the traditional BMW drivetrain it is up for some tough competition. So far the new X1 is selling a lot slower than the previous model.
My experience is totally oposite: the vehicle is waaaay behind the E84, seats, materials, interior design, shifter(that is a total laughable element!!!), engine, are a disaster, a step back. A big step back.
The seats ar smaller and taller, more like the toilet seat, with no support for long legs. The seating position is far away from the old X1 which has a touring inspired chassis, more confortable and pleasant for long drives.
In regards with the driving dynamics, I don't know how you can compare it with a 328 for example that is more solid and has a better chassis. They don't even compare. The new X1 drives like a FWD car, there is no sense of balance or driving dynamics, if you have enough experience with the BMW lineup, you can tell that it has no BMW genetics.
Just the fact that you are saying that the sedan chassis is worse (basic common technical sense), proves to me that either your experience is limited, either your senses are not there. I stop giving you any credibility after that, and your comment in regards with the older shifter and the new one convinced me that there is no sense to go further. But you are entitled to your opinion, which is based on your perception.
My conclusion is very strong:
The old one is responsive, powerful, balanced and a true biased RWD that has a true personality.
The new F48 X1 is a big failure.

BTW! Mine is one of the first ever in this continent, it has five years soon, and has no rattles, or noises, or other things that you mentioned. Materials are excellent, well put together, car is well built, no complaints, we totally love the car. I really don't know what are you talking about. Really.

Last edited by Teutonic; 05-13-2016 at 05:19 PM..
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      05-13-2016, 08:47 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracus View Post
My experience is totally oposite: the vehicle is waaaay behind the E84, seats, materials, interior design, shifter(that is a total laughable element!!!), engine, are a disaster, a step back. A big step back.
The seats ar smaller and taller, more like the toilet seat, with no support for long legs. The seating position is far away from the old X1 which has a touring inspired chassis, more confortable and pleasant for long drives.
In regards with the driving dynamics, I don't know how you can compare it with a 328 for example that is more solid and has a better chassis. They don't even compare. The new X1 drives like a FWD car, there is no sense of balance or driving dynamics, if you have enough experience with the BMW lineup, you can tell that it has no BMW genetics.
Just the fact that you are saying that the sedan chassis is worse (basic common technical sense), proves to me that either your experience is limited, either your senses are not there. I stop giving you any credibility after that, and your comment in regards with the older shifter and the new one convinced me that there is no sense to go further. But you are entitled to your opinion, which is based on your perception.
My conclusion is very strong:
The old one is responsive, powerful, balanced and a true biased RWD that has a true personality.
The new F48 X1 is a big failure.

BTW! Mine is one of the first ever in this continent, it has five years soon, and has no rattles, or noises, or other things that you mentioned. Materials are excellent, well put together, car is well built, no complaints, we totally love the car. I really don't know what are you talking about. Really.
First of all, my post was not meant to criticize the old X1. I still absolutely love it, and find it a great value - but it is based on an excellent but nevertheless dated 2006 platform, and was due for a refresh.

I'm a big fan of BMW, I had a 335i coupe, 745i, and currently have X1, X5 and m235i - so I certainly have plenty of experience with BMW lineup. However I've been very critical of new model BMWs, particularly the current 3 series. It does not seem to have any BMW genes, and drives a lot worse than our old X1s. I was expecting the new X1 to be even worse when it comes to driving dynamics but I was pleasantly surprised. To me it has very similar driving feel to E84 and I even found its electronic steering a bit quicker and sharper. Neither one of these cars are particularly sporty, but for what they are they both feel lively.
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      05-13-2016, 10:51 PM   #163
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It's interesting what you're saying about the steering feel being better. I didn't test drive the F48 X1, but I did test drive the 2015 X3 and found it to be very underwhelming - I imagine the F48 has the same steering rack so I'm surprised that you say it's better. Very interested to see it for myself if I get a chance to test it as a loaner on a service (not that I'll need one in the next 6-12 months... Lol)

I'm glad to see a positive review of the F48 - like most I basically wrote it off as a soccer mom car, feeling there is a missing niche where our E84 used to be, but maybe not all is lost.
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      05-14-2016, 07:58 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vstolpner View Post
It's interesting what you're saying about the steering feel being better. I didn't test drive the F48 X1, but I did test drive the 2015 X3 and found it to be very underwhelming - I imagine the F48 has the same steering rack so I'm surprised that you say it's better. Very interested to see it for myself if I get a chance to test it as a loaner on a service (not that I'll need one in the next 6-12 months... Lol)
I had the new X3 loaner several times, and its electronic steering is horrible. Very underwhelming car indeed. Ditto for the new 328 and 528. I also had X4 m40i loaner, which is based on the X3, but its electronic steering is far better tuned and I very much enjoyed the car. In my m235i electronic steering is nothing short of awesome. So with electronic steering its all about how they tune and set it up at the factory, and they did a very good job on the new X1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vstolpner View Post
I'm glad to see a positive review of the F48 - like most I basically wrote it off as a soccer mom car, feeling there is a missing niche where our E84 used to be, but maybe not all is lost.
Well, I'm still critical of the new X1 as I would much prefer if it was RWD based, offered 6 cylinder engine, and kept that lifted wagon shape vs a cute-ute. It is indeed a chick car, but it's a lot more pleasant to drive than the more expensive X3.
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      05-16-2016, 10:13 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by och View Post
I had the new X3 loaner several times, and its electronic steering is horrible. Very underwhelming car indeed. Ditto for the new 328 and 528. I also had X4 m40i loaner, which is based on the X3, but its electronic steering is far better tuned and I very much enjoyed the car. In my m235i electronic steering is nothing short of awesome. So with electronic steering its all about how they tune and set it up at the factory, and they did a very good job on the new X1.



Well, I'm still critical of the new X1 as I would much prefer if it was RWD based, offered 6 cylinder engine, and kept that lifted wagon shape vs a cute-ute. It is indeed a chick car, but it's a lot more pleasant to drive than the more expensive X3.
I have a 2016 X3 which I trade in my 2014 X1 on. I don't really notice much difference.in the steering. I think it is more in your mind than anything else. Yeah the old handles better but it is lower to the ground and weighs less.

I would say as much as I hated the X1 I hate it even more now. The cheap plastic, the crappy looks, the car seems like it would fall apart when going over any kind of bump. The terribly uncomfortable seats. The lack of room in the passenger compartment or trunk. The awful audio system sound. The only car I have owned that I truely disliked.

I wouldn't consider the new X1 now as with discounts on the X3 they are about the same price. But I can't imagine it isn't much better than the old one. Sitting one in the dealership it sure seemed a lot better inside and out.
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      05-17-2016, 01:17 PM   #166
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I had the 2016 X1 loaner for 2 days and I understand why Tracus have those impression. First IMO the car does look better inside and out in stock form; it is also bigger. The material actually kind of the same if you look deeper but the new one seem to hide the plastic better. The front seats are the worst part, the seat bottom is too short I think its the worst seat I ever sat on and my sport seats are way better.

The car FEELS quicker only because they tune throttle more sensitive especially in sport mode (e84 doesn't have drive mode); and it FEELS better in handling because the initial steering turn in is quicker. The body roll is more and with the quicker steering you would feel you are going corner quick instead you aren't. Once being push you know it isn't that great. And the engine have this weird note (fake?) that doesn't sound natural. Shift is smooth however.

Yes the new F30 328 (especially non-M sport) is super soft but the turning still have some BMW DNA to it, so is X3 and X5 and everything else. But the new X1 doesn't have the same driving DNA at all. On the other hand it give a great impression to most who test drive it and that's what BMW is aiming for.

To me the new seat is the deal killing for me. But I may still recommend the new X1 to general public over Q3 and GLA250.
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      05-17-2016, 07:47 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kychungkevin View Post
Yes the new F30 328 (especially non-M sport) is super soft but the turning still have some BMW DNA to it, so is X3 and X5 and everything else. But the new X1 doesn't have the same driving DNA at all. On the other hand it give a great impression to most who test drive it and that's what BMW is aiming for.

To me the new seat is the deal killing for me. But I may still recommend the new X1 to general public over Q3 and GLA250.
BMW knows it audience well though (i.e. non enthusiast commuters). My wife had an F30 335 with the option 704 passive sport suspension and 19s and she liked the steering (lighter) a lot better than her replacement E84 X135. She thought the suspension firmness on the 335 was "good enough" too. The sport 8AT gearbox on the F30 is head and shoulders better than the antique 6AT in the X135 as well

The old in cabin tech in the X135 is also pretty obvious, with the gauges the same as my old '08 328, and it is missing nice to haves like side cameras and heads up display

I like the E84 X135 a lot, and I'm glad we have it, but if the new F48 X1 could be leased for a lower price, I would probably have gotten it for the newer in cabin tech and lighter steering (wife's car, so what she wants matters a lot).
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