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      02-21-2017, 02:05 AM   #1
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Rear sway bar upgrade

I'm thinking of changing brake rotors and pads myself and was thinking of upgrading the rear sway bar as well while I'm at it. Mind you I've no any experience on this at all. However watching videos in youtube for brake pad/rotor changes, i felt its achievable. I thought i read here somewhere that rear bar is quite easy as well and saw videos and felt it wasn't too bad but it wasn't on e84. The videos were on different models. I just came across e9x instructions which I guess will have similar rear axle and looks daunting - having to lower the sub-frame etc. So i would appreciate your advice on this.. Thanks
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      02-21-2017, 02:49 AM   #2
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I've got the s28i M Sport in US, and it is really a great ride.

I noticed when I picked it up In Germany that it swayed like wind blowing it at 120mph while trying to follow the big boys on the autobahn.

I have staggered 8x18 and 9x18 wheels, so 30 mm wider 255/40r18 P7's on back.

The track is already stock with 1.1 inch wider in back, so I put 12mm spacer just on fronts, and got rid of sway.

Now yours probably has that normal roll if it'st not m sport and a sway might help if it's not too stiff.

If you want to get rid of understeer, and balance steering with minimal effort, I think you could get an alignment, and make sure to dial out some of that negative camber on back wheels that most all cars have now.
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      02-21-2017, 03:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
I've got the s28i M Sport in US, and it is really a great ride.

I noticed when I picked it up In Germany that it swayed like wind blowing it at 120mph while trying to follow the big boys on the autobahn.

I have staggered 8x18 and 9x18 wheels, so 30 mm wider 255/40r18 P7's on back.

The track is already stock with 1.1 inch wider in back, so I put 12mm spacer just on fronts, and got rid of sway.

Now yours probably has that normal roll if it'st not m sport and a sway might help if it's not too stiff.

If you want to get rid of understeer, and balance steering with minimal effort, I think you could get an alignment, and make sure to dial out some of that negative camber on back wheels that most all cars have now.
I don't do high speed straights but like to take twisty roads every chance I get and find the body roll not so pleasing. Plus I've moon-roof as well adding extra weight in the top so am hoping thicker sway bar will help stabilize a bit.

I have the exact wheel setup as yours but I'm running 235 in the front and 265 in the rear.
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      02-21-2017, 06:52 AM   #4
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I just noticed yours is a M Sport also, but with diesel for low fuel consumption.

The reviews claim yours in stock is good handling without much roll.

I went to high speed sports car tracks, several times, and ran it up to 120, and down to 30 or 50 mph around the curves.

I never had any body roll to tell me it was top heavy, but don't have the panoramic window.

What it did have was front understeer bias which I corrected somewhat by the 12mm spacers on the front.

I have electric steering, and it was very light so the spacers made it feel firmer up front.

The more tread on the back staggered setup makes that understeer feel more pronounced.

I wouldn't change anything on suspension as it drives like a dream as is.

If I ever spent $130. for an alignment, I'd ask them to get the rear camber from the approx -2deg to no more than -1.5 deg to improve the rear wear, and help dial out some understeer.

The fronts seem right, and wear more evenly; P7 summer performance half worn at 20k miles).

I'm interested to see how you work it with a sway bar, since my first RX3 in 1973 In put a 1/2inch rear bar by drilling holes under rear gas tank (was careful). It was "custom" build, and I was a green kid, but the rear was firm, and an oversteering monster until I got the 1 and 1/4 bar for the front. In those days the rears were solid axle, and fronts had to be some positive camber with McPherson struts.

I've got a RX8 mazda where everyone was trying to balance the suspension, and I balanced the handling by dialing out -2 deg rear camber down to -1.65. The RX8 already has some bars, and body roll was nonexistance, but alignment was wrong and kept it from cornering right. Everyone and their dog was wanting "lowering springs" when the rears tended to sag to as low as possible from weak springs already (only a 2 inch leaway from high to lowest. I read between the lines, and put a Bilstein B12 kit with Eibach springs. RX8 is even better now; maybe stiffer Bilsteins and springs would be as good as rear roll bar? Also, with that much rubber you could go back to same wheels and tires all around to balance?

You should buy some BMS12 mm spacers for fronts, and see if that works somewhat.

Everyone discussed the sway on ours in the US, and I fixed it where it can top out at 145 corrected speed without feeling jicky.

Last edited by 0w40X1; 02-21-2017 at 07:00 AM..
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      02-21-2017, 07:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
I've got the s28i M Sport in US, and it is really a great ride.
...
I like to think so too, although in another thread, it was said that X1 is not sporty, and the s28 isn't fast. I think it's a bit of a "sleeper".

Quote:
...I have staggered 8x18 and 9x18 wheels, so 30 mm wider 255/40r18 P7's on back.

The track is already stock with 1.1 inch wider in back, so I put 12mm spacer just on fronts, and got rid of sway.
Mine has 225/45 18 all around, so I'm not sure what kind of differences that would make, but I'd guess it would have less understeer. It does seem to wander a bit more than I'd like on the highway, but not sure that it's "sway". I'd like to get new tires and re-evaluate.

I just hope it's not like this BMW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrVaKgNaUEI
(Ok, they were racing in the rain, so that might not be terribly valid, but I want to be secure in the rain too...)

Quote:
Now yours probably has that normal roll if it'st not m sport and a sway might help if it's not too stiff.

...
What I'm wondering is, what, exactly, does the M-sport have that the normal X1 doesn't? I read that it's only the springs, which I find surprising.
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      02-21-2017, 08:18 AM   #6
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I don't know what the M sport suspension has extra, but I wouldn't recommend anyone making it stiffer for the street.

Some people with the 19 inch wheel pkg, and runflat tires (they all are) talk about how rough and hard the suspension is.

I'm going to Michelin PSS or PSS4 non run flat, and 25 inch tires (225/40r18 fronts) instead of 26 inch (225/45r18 fronts)when I need some new tires.

Everyone has talked about car not wanting to stay straight when driving at high speed as low as even 75mph.

I'll say again that: The front track is 1.1 inches shorter than rear. My staggered wheels, the ET of 30 front and 41 rear 355M wheel makes the staggered setup have a 1.26 inch shorter front track.

So, a 12mm spacer makes the rears only 4mm wider per side in the rear, which makes car incredibly stable for aprox. $110.
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      02-21-2017, 08:26 AM   #7
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I just watched Jeremy screw up as usuall for effect in a spin.

I picked up my Euro delivery at end of May 2013, and drove around Germany in record floods.

I found out that one only needs to push the rain sensing button at end of stalk, and let car wipe as needed, a wonderful system.

The Pirelli P7 summer tires are apparently a great rain tire as are most summer rubber which is better than no-season tires.

If you can spin the X1 in rain with those tires it's time to stop driving. I tracked my M sport with and without traction control (dry days). With control turned off I couldn't feel the tires, and won't do it. With traction control, X1 does a little wiggle, and shoots like the brakes are giving you launch control. Best car I never knew could be made.
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      02-21-2017, 11:43 AM   #8
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A swaybar doesn't really affect ride quality. That's one of the reasons why people like them for a daily driver vs. ramping up spring rates.

To answer your question OP, yes, you have to drop the rear subframe at least a few inches to wrestle a larger bar in there (and the stock one out). It really takes two people if you're not removing the subframe entirely. I was able to just stretch the rubber brake lines a hair and get an M3 vert bar in, without having to pull the whole thing down.

If you're going to do the rear bar, do it with the rear subframe bushings, for sure.

Very nice improvement in the handling department.

Not sure how mechanically inclined you are, but count on a couple hours for the swap your first time. Not technically hard...but there is a lot of trial and error getting the bars in and out. A bit of a PITA without dropping the subframe entirely, which adds a good bit more work (bleeding brakes, etc.).

Your car is ALL E90 xdrive BTW, meaning the rear is all RWD E90. So any DIYs etc. on the RWD cars also apply to you.
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      02-21-2017, 11:47 AM   #9
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Edit, see below.
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      02-21-2017, 11:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidgamer View Post

What I'm wondering is, what, exactly, does the M-sport have that the normal X1 doesn't? I read that it's only the springs, which I find surprising.

Sway bars are a bit different, 13/15 in the rear for the N20, fronts listed as same diameter, but different part numbers. The struts also have different part numbers. Hard to find info on the springs...no lower I don't think...maybe a small rate increase.
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      02-21-2017, 08:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidgamer View Post
........
What I'm wondering is, what, exactly, does the M-sport have that the normal X1 doesn't? I read that it's only the springs, which I find surprising.
From what I can see M sport has the optional sport suspension settings which I've been told is stiffer than the normal one and the sway bar is also 2 mm thicker at 15 mm compared to 13 mm with normal suspension settings.
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      02-21-2017, 09:41 PM   #12
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It's a real bummer that the suspension isn't lower. It's goofy-high.

Interesting about the difficulty installing the RSB. I did one on my Acura, and it was pretty easy. Very mild change; that and sticky tires, and call it a day. Given that the M-sport already has stiffer upgrades, I'm inclined to not mess with it. Only would like to lower it, but not at the expense of screwing up the balance.
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      02-21-2017, 10:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
A swaybar doesn't really affect ride quality. That's one of the reasons why people like them for a daily driver vs. ramping up spring rates.

To answer your question OP, yes, you have to drop the rear subframe at least a few inches to wrestle a larger bar in there (and the stock one out). It really takes two people if you're not removing the subframe entirely. I was able to just stretch the rubber brake lines a hair and get an M3 vert bar in, without having to pull the whole thing down.

If you're going to do the rear bar, do it with the rear subframe bushings, for sure.

Very nice improvement in the handling department.

Not sure how mechanically inclined you are, but count on a couple hours for the swap your first time. Not technically hard...but there is a lot of trial and error getting the bars in and out. A bit of a PITA without dropping the subframe entirely, which adds a good bit more work (bleeding brakes, etc.).

Your car is ALL E90 xdrive BTW, meaning the rear is all RWD E90. So any DIYs etc. on the RWD cars also apply to you.
Thanks for the info.. I guess I'll have to take it to the mechanics then coz for a newbie like me with no prior experience on mechanical stuff it will be too much to try change brakes, bleed them as brake fluid is due soon as well and upgrade sway bar at the same time Changing engine oil last time - few weeks ago, was the first time I laid my hands on my car with bigger wrench. Prior to that I was just using small tool and trim kits for removing trims lol..
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      02-22-2017, 07:30 AM   #14
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Battery fluid?
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      02-22-2017, 07:31 AM   #15
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Battery fluid?
Lol.. Brake fluid

*edited* thanks for pointing it out
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      02-22-2017, 10:41 AM   #16
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Don't forget to change the blinker fluid also! Very important on these German cars :-D

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=Jx1lfpD7OCc
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      02-23-2017, 09:07 PM   #17
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Wow auto service shops are asking from AUD 500 - 660 for installing just the rear sway bar and I'm starting to get second thoughts now
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      02-24-2017, 05:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeezzy View Post
Wow auto service shops are asking from AUD 500 - 660 for installing just the rear sway bar and I'm starting to get second thoughts now
Well, since we already have a larger sway bar, are you sure you need an even larger one?

Modifying cars isn't cheap, although some things are easier on this car, like the engine controller add-ons.

As for wet weather, we had rain and these stock P7? RFTs worked fine, although I wasn't at high-speed like Jeremy in that video.
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      02-24-2017, 06:19 AM   #19
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Sway bars have their place, but can stiffen car too much, too.

Tuning a suspension is an artform.

I read about people adding lots of stuff on various sporty cars, but can't get it to grip any better.

So, as well as my X1 s28i M Sport grips, and handles, I'm not changing any settings that can't be changed back; even the alignment.

As long as tires wear properly, and grip feels great changing is not for me.

In my world, I like to do More with Less.
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      02-24-2017, 07:09 AM   #20
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That's kind of my feeling -- people change stuff without really knowing if it's better or worse. Try to get as much info as you can on what people have done; few can do scientific tests back-to-back, so it's hard to argue against the factory tuning.

Good to hear that the Msport already having upgraded sway bars, at least for the rear. One reason I went looking for cars with a "sport suspension" upgrade was so that I didn't have to worry about this stuff. I still like to read about what others are doing, though.
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      02-24-2017, 07:36 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaeezzy View Post
Wow auto service shops are asking from AUD 500 - 660 for installing just the rear sway bar and I'm starting to get second thoughts now
Yeah, for it be be done by-the-book, it's time consuming when you factor in removing the brake lines. As I said, I got lucky and managed to get it out without having too, but a shop would be less willing to put any tension on those lines at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidgamer View Post
Well, since we already have a larger sway bar, are you sure you need an even larger one?

Modifying cars isn't cheap, although some things are easier on this car, like the engine controller add-ons.

As for wet weather, we had rain and these stock P7? RFTs worked fine, although I wasn't at high-speed like Jeremy in that video.
Even the "larger" bar is quite thin. What is the stock MSport, 15mm? An M3 rear bar, by way of comparison, is almost 24mm. And that's on a lighter car.

It isn't about laptimes really. No one is racing you to the 7-11.

It's about handling feel. It's about making the car a bit more fun to drive. And minor suspension work certainly accomplishes this, particularly with this car.

It's not hard to get it to drive just about exactly like the 3 series it is underneath.
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      02-24-2017, 07:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidgamer View Post
It's a real bummer that the suspension isn't lower. It's goofy-high.

Interesting about the difficulty installing the RSB. I did one on my Acura, and it was pretty easy. Very mild change; that and sticky tires, and call it a day. Given that the M-sport already has stiffer upgrades, I'm inclined to not mess with it. Only would like to lower it, but not at the expense of screwing up the balance.
You're not going to "screw up the balance". Besides that...what balance is that? It's a heavy X1 with a propensity for terminal understeer.

I think anyone who's put coilovers or even H&Rs and Bilsteins on these cars will attest to a significant handling improvement. The spring rates aren't much higher than stock, so ride quality is good (although the high pressure gas Bilsteins certainly bring more road feel into the car).

This car is my wife's daily if that makes you feel any better. And she certainly enjoys driving the car more in its more buttoned-down state.
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