New BMW X1 pictures from press drive, including first production interior photos

[RX7guy]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

In the case of BMW, several things come into play.

1. The M3 exists to sell more 3 series. Customers will compare the 325, 335, and M3 and will choose the 335.
2. They may compare the 1, 3 and 5 series and buy the 3 series yet again.
3. In the case of the X1,X3, X5, the consumers will opt for the X3.

BMW's goal with the X1 is to expand X3 sales. So that is the point of the X1.

The majority of 3 series buyers purchased a 3 series for this very reason. That is why I laugh when people say the 5 is too big, more expensive, etc. These are 3 series owners who played right into the hands of BMW.

I respectfully disagree.

Just because I "can't afford a 5er and bought a 3er" (which isn't necessarily true) doesn't mean I want a big luxury sedan. I want something that isn't over 4000lbs (although 3600lbs for a 335i is still heavy) and I don't need super comfortable rear seats.

Different cars for different markets. Just because I have the money for a bigger BMW, doesn't mean I need the additional size.

[chuck92103]

I was stating marketing. What I stated is in use for most marketing plans regardless of product. Will it work on everyone? Of course not. But it is what it is because it is highly effective.

Funny how people get p!ssed and defensive when they find out a company is playing a marketing game on them. They go into denial and reject the thought of ever being manipulated.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Conflicting what the US Journalists are saying regarding the X1 in the press previews , BMW will not be introducing the X1 to the North American Market in the near future as the economic situation does not help it's stature.
Two things are against the X1 the economic climate would prevent it being profitable and the stigma against four cylinder engines.

BMW X1 in Europe is dependent on four cylinder engines to be profitable , in Europe the X1 will feature only 1 six cylinder engine , 2 four cylinder diesels from launch - the X1 xDrive 2.0d and the X1 xDrive 2.3d. From Spring 2010 we will introduce a X1 xDrive 1.8d and two accompany the petrol models - The X1 xDrive 1.8i. BMW will also introduce a Active Hybrid X1 further down the line.

That's really a shame. We liked the 1er hatchbacks we saw in Germany, and this X1 really looked like a fine vehicle for us, but only if it came with a diesel for fuel economy reasons. I much prefer BMW, but we'll have to give serious consideration to the upcoming Audi A3 TDI if there's no Bimmer hatchback/wagon diesel available.

I'd think that given the new regulatory climate in the USA, BMW would be eager to use off-the-shelf technology to increase its fleet fuel economy levels.

Is there really that much of a stigma against 4-cyls in the USA? Audi certainly has had a great deal of success with its 4 cylinder A4s and A3s. And the Acura TSX has done quite well. And the MINI is definitely a premium product. I hope that BMW isn't still assuming that because the 318ti failed, therefore Americans are not interested in four cylinder BMWs.

[chuck92103]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

That's really a shame. We liked the 1er hatchbacks we saw in Germany, and this X1 really looked like a fine vehicle for us, but only if it came with a diesel for fuel economy reasons. I much prefer BMW, but we'll have to give serious consideration to the upcoming Audi A3 TDI if there's no Bimmer hatchback/wagon diesel available.

I'd think that given the new regulatory climate in the USA, BMW would be eager to use off-the-shelf technology to increase its fleet fuel economy levels.

Is there really that much of a stigma against 4-cyls in the USA? Audi certainly has had a great deal of success with its 4 cylinder A4s and A3s. And the Acura TSX has done quite well. And the MINI is definitely a premium product. I hope that BMW isn't still assuming that because the 318ti failed, therefore Americans are not interested in four cylinder BMWs.

I think it will take a long time before 4 cylinders are accepted in the U.S. again.

The problem is most options have trickeled down to Accords and Camry's that the only way the premium cars can distinguish themselves is with horsepower.

A M3 is basically identical to a 335 yet folks will pay $20k for 50 more horsepower. (The 335 is really closer to 350HP but BMW sells it as 300HP so it won't compete with a 400HP M3).

But I think the day will come where we will be back to 3/4/5/6 cylinder engines and the V8/V10 will be gone for the most part.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

I think it will take a long time before 4 cylinders are accepted in the U.S. again.

The problem is most options have trickeled down to Accords and Camry's that the only way the premium cars can distinguish themselves is with horsepower.

A M3 is basically identical to a 335 yet folks will pay $20k for 50 more horsepower. (The 335 is really closer to 350HP but BMW sells it as 300HP so it won't compete with a 400HP M3).

But I think the day will come where we will be back to 3/4/5/6 cylinder engines and the V8/V10 will be gone for the most part.

But the point of my post is that clearly, 4 cylinders are accepted in the U.S., and in premium cars, to boot.

There will always be people willing to pay more for a higher-output engine, but there are still quite a few who would be willing to pay less for a smaller engine that came with BMW handling. I think BMW is (wrongly) a bit gunshy over 4-cyls because of the 318ti, but that was a 4-cyl released in the midst of cheap gasoline and a growing horsepower war and, I might add, at a time when BMW's vaunted straight sixes in their 3-series were still rated at, what? 184 HP? Less than what a 3.8L V-6 in a Chevy Lumina was rated.

I am not arguing in favor of 4-cyl gasoline engines, either. Instead, I maintain that a high output, torquey, fuel-efficient turbo diesel mated to a BMW chassis would go over quite well as long as they could get past the EPA.

(Of course, if BMW is holding back on turbo diesels because of the environmental regulatory mess, then that's something I can understand.)

[ptack]

Originally Posted by bsd107

Uhhh... last time I checked, gas was back at $2.50 per gallon. It's been there for a few months.

I'm no fan of SUVs, but gas prices are certainly not a reason to avoid them right now.....

No one expects gas to remain at low prices for long. And the bad economy has made people much more cost conscious than before. I think there's a different mindset now. If oeople believe the car is a value it could do well, if they think it's wasteful it might as well be a Hummer.

What might make it even odder will be if BMW introduces the next gen 1 series hatches at the same (as they are reportedly planning to). To me, that would make the X1 even more surpurfluous.

[dextran]

Originally Posted by ARES45

If BMW doesn't bring this in a 23d form here in the states within the next year or two they will have lost my business for the next 6 years at least.

agreed. I'm so mad I may go buy an Infiniti. Crossovers are USA bread and butter.

[ARES45]

I guess I will pick up an infiniti ex35.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by ptack

No one expects gas to remain at low prices for long. And the bad economy has made people much more cost conscious than before. I think there's a different mindset now. If oeople believe the car is a value it could do well, if they think it's wasteful it might as well be a Hummer.

What might make it even odder will be if BMW introduces the next gen 1 series hatches at the same (as they are reportedly planning to). To me, that would make the X1 even more surpurfluous.

Not entirely, because the hatches will be RWD, while the X1 will have AWD.

[SCOTT26]

Thats the same thing bmw says about the cs concept and m3 csl - the current economic climate...funny however how audi lanched its r8 v8 - huge sucess - and just launched the v10 version... bottom line is that if you put out a brilliant product out there it will sell...it just has to be really good...and i am sure i dont have to quote any reviews for you guys on the r8

WRONG!

Audi launched their R8 in 2006 at the Paris motor show , back then the economy was not as bad as it is now, especially for cars like the R8.
The R8 was spawned from the Le Mans Quattro Concept Car shown at the 2003 IAA. So Audi were well within the boundaries when times were good to develop and produce the R8. If they were to do so now then the outcome would not have been so great . Cars that are just coming to launch now have been in years of development , had they been conceived now there would be no chance of a majority making production.
That is why it is not feasible to develop a Supercar in the current climate.
That is why BMW are progressing their "Efficient Dynamics" and "Project-i" programmes because these are relevant.

[M2]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

I hope that BMW isn't still assuming that because the 318ti failed, therefore Americans are not interested in four cylinder BMWs.

I agree with you. I hope BMW doesn’t keep using the 318ti as the basis to make all of their future decisions on 4 cyl cars. That would be ignorant. The 318ti failed because it was a cheap looking, rear hacked off, odd looking, base model material looking car. Not because of the engine. Mercedes had the same issue when they released the 3 door hatchback. It also was hideous and sales were dismal.

Make an appealing car, give it a fuel efficient, sporty engine and sell it at a fair price and you will have your new bread and butter car segment. It's that simple. BMW needs to get their head out of their a$$ and start rethinking the US market. The current 1 series sales expectations were not met due to the financial situation in the US. Also, the 135i was a bit expensive when you started to add on pkgs. Again, if you sell it at a reasonable price, you will draw in the buyer segment you seemed to think was impossible to reach. If bmw keeps holding out on sending the diesel to the US, I will go elsewhere for my next car.

[jkp1187]

Originally Posted by M2

If bmw keeps holding out on sending the diesel to the US, I will go elsewhere for my next car.

Yeah. I'm not enthusiastic about buying an Audi A3 or VW Jetta/Golf diesel, because of reliability issues and a reputation for poor customer service (esp. with VW,) and I'm not keen on a Toyota Prius or Ford hybrid just because they just aren't very fun to drive. But if BMW doesn't step up to the plate with a decent fuel-efficient sedan/wagon vehicle, I'll have to compromise and go with something along those lines.

Oh well, I won't be in the market for a new car until the 2012 model year at the earliest I expect; I do have some high hopes that BMW's stand will have changed somewhat by then.