Tesla Model 3

[ORIGIN M.]

Very few single EV families. Most still have 1 ICE car or 1 PHEV car as the 2nd car.

"Hi I cannot come to work today, because the power is out and my car did not charge"

I love it, who cares, like you cannot call a cab... Or Telecommute.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Assuming no other EV is charging and there is an open spot. Tesla's and other EVs have low risk of occupied charge stations because they are just 1% of the market share at the moment. When occupancy rates go up and waiting times to charge start to happen, it will be another story.

And if you have a single-car household with an EV and the electricity fails overnight...

[ORIGIN M.]

Instant Torque, something that will decimates ICE cars, and will completely surpass them in every way over the next several years.

The best part, not having to buy 1 penny of Petrol.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Why do people use the word achievement for electric cars? They've been around longer than ICE cars. The term golf cart comes to mind. Please list the advantages that make it an achievement. Only benefit I can think of that isn't offset by one or several equal opposite detractions is instant torque. Even then, loss of torque happens rapidly. Describing it as the latest gizmo like the 8-track, cassete player, vcr, etc seems more appropriate. People bought these because the lastest gadget only to fade out as they were replaced by something else. To me its just the latest brag gadget because i can't see any other reason they're better. Maybe, maybe if the technology can and does progress they will become viable mainstream competitors to ICE but that's a long way off.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Instant Torque, something that will decimates ICE cars, and will completely surpass them over the next several years.

The best part, not having to buy 1 penny of Petrol.

From a stoplight. I'm a highway warrior. A stock mustang gt will rape a tesla at speed. Petrol, or gasoline here in the USA is cheap. You spend less on a faster car and gas than a tesla.

[ORIGIN M.]

I understand I drive an old school BMW for that same reason.

However in town that Mustang is roasting the tires in my rear view mirror. Ha!

Buying Petrol is no fun regardless... In just a few short years your point about the mustang will not be valid, the performance EV's are coming.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

From a stoplight. I'm a highway warrior. A stock mustang gt will rape a tesla at speed. Petrol, or gasoline here in the USA is cheap. You spend less on a faster car and gas than a tesla.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Very few single EV families. Most still have 1 ICE car or 1 PHEV car as the 2nd car.

"Hi I cannot come to work today, because the power is out and my car did not charge"

I love it, who cares, like you cannot call a cab... Or Telecommute.

What happens when both cars are used every day?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Because I drive 500 miles in a day....

This is the thing. Even though the car may not work for my particular lifestyle, doesn't mean it isn't an amazing achievement. It's like saying, "Well, they didn't offer ME a trip to the moon and do it in 2 days and be able to reuse the spaceship, so call me when they do". Sure, the cars will get better and the technology will have wider applications, but that doesn't change the fact that they are on the road now, with ranges that actually make them viable, vs. 20 years ago when the best someone could come up with was a few dozen miles and horrible practicality. I mean, once it does do the 800 miles a day for you, then you'll complain that it doesn't also hold 10 people, doesn't travel off-road like a trophy truck, and doesn't come in blue. The point isn't whether it works for you or me, the point is it's out there and it does work for a lot of people, vs. when electric cars were not out there and not practical for anyone.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What happens when both cars are used every day?

The person who drives the less distance that day takes the EV.

It is not hard to adapt it takes about 3 weeks then it is second nature.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

The person who drives the less distance that day takes the EV.

It is not hard to adapt it takes about 3 weeks then it is second nature.

I think that's the point, only 1% of the market is willing to "adapt"... I'd probably have bought a Bolt at the end of March if my stupid company had given any hint it is considering installing EVSE at my office building. The Bolt in the winter will probably not make my 175-mile round trip on a single charge.

[David70]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Hes a bit of a bigshot and doesnt need to lie.. guys who have everything dont need to brag
and car companies have been trying to dethrone BMW for nearly half century some lil startup company in california is not likely to do it

The car isn't out so unless he works for Tesla he hasn't driven it. Would be odd if he works for Tesla and has given you a bad review on it.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Very few single EV families. Most still have 1 ICE car or 1 PHEV car as the 2nd car.

Even if that were the most important part of his point (it wasn't), you are still acknowledging the problem is a barrier for a two-car household to become all-EV.

But really, the fact that a household may have a non-EV in the garage in the event that a power outage leaves the EV with insufficient range is of little benefit when both cars need to be used at the same time every morning by the two adults in the family. It will mean an inconvenience and reshuffling at best, and at worst missed appointments or other important activity. It's not acceptable.

"Hi I cannot come to work today, because the power is out and my car did not charge"

I love it, who cares, like you cannot call a cab... Or Telecommute.

"Who cares" is objectively not a solution to the very real problem we are discussing. It's trolling. And not having to call a cab is the whole reason to own a car to begin with, so that's also not a reasonable alternative. Furthermore, not everyone can just telecommute on a whim or even at all. So that also is not a viable solution in the general case.

[fr240]

How many times in the last 5 years have you had no power overnight?

If you live in the snowbelt, how many times a year is it acceptable to not drive to work during a snowstorm?

How many times in the last 5 years has your car broken down or needed to go to the shop? I bet it's more times than you haven't had power overnight....

Did you find an alternative to get to work or wherever you were going? Probably so. You can carpool, telecommute, take an uber, take a cab, take transit, take the day off, drive to a supercharger and have a delayed arrival, ask your neighbor for a ride, etc.

Basically, you have a legit excuse if there was a power outage and you have an EV. It's like being afraid of email because you may lose internet access. Yeah, that could happen, but it's not a huge deal and there are usually alternatives.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by fr240

How many times in the last 5 years have you had no power overnight?

A couple times a year or so.

If you live in the snowbelt, how many times a year is it acceptable to not drive to work during a snowstorm?

I've never not driven to work because of a snow storm. I'm sure people are excused for such things frequently, just as they are for dozens of other personal reasons. But a snowstorm is a different animal from the occasional personal mishap because it means that the expectations are lowered on everyone in the affected area, and furthermore many events get canceled anyway. If I can't get my kids to school on time because I have to charge my car up for a few minutes before I am comfortable making the trip into school and then work, that affects just me and my kids. And if there is an important event or test being taken that morning, that's even more stress. This is real life, it's a legitimate concern, and its one example of the many reasons why EVs are not replacing ICE vehicles en masse today.

How many times in the last 5 years has your car broken down or needed to go to the shop? I bet it's more times than you haven't had power overnight...

My cars have never failed to provide transportation in the morning when I pulled them into the garage in working condition the night before.

Did you find an alternative to get to work or wherever you were going? Probably so. You can carpool, telecommute, take an uber, take a cab, take transit, take the day off, drive to a supercharger and have a delayed arrival, ask your neighbor for a ride, etc.

But then we are missing the point. If a small percentage of gasoline powered models on the market could become unusable overnight without warning, then people would stop buying them. That's truth. And it wouldn't be a gray area, or something that happened gradually. Those vehicles would be rejected outright and fail to be viable products. Period. The reason is, people have expectations, and those vehicles would fail to meet expectations.

So then, simply swaping an electric motor into said vehicles that still leaves the same risk would not be considered a legitimate solution. In fact, it wouldn't even be a recommended solution. No one would make that suggestion because no one would reasonably think that is a solution to the problem at hand.

It's not about work-arounds. People here are smart enough to know that work-arounds can be found. It's about viable products that meet the expectations of today's consumer. That's it. Really - that's all it's about. Consumer adoption requires a product that meets consumer needs.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I think that's the point, only 1% of the market is willing to "adapt"... I'd probably have bought a Bolt at the end of March if my stupid company had given any hint it is considering installing EVSE at my office building. The Bolt in the winter will probably not make my 175-mile round trip on a single charge.

Over 30% in Norway because they are not fucking around like the US is.

[David70]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Over 30% in Norway because they are not fucking around like the US is.

In Norway, the Tesla Model S costs roughly $81,000 to $92,000 plus options (that’s translated to US currency, of course). While the figure sounds high, fact is it’s not. The typical, comparable (size and power) gas-burning vehicle in Norway goes for approximately $300,000.

No mystery on why they Norwegians love them so much.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Over 30% in Norway because they are not fucking around like the US is.

Thats BS, they tax everything else up the arse so bad its a false market.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Thats BS, they tax everything else up the arse so bad its a false market.

It is real because they have a standard they are unwilling to compromise.

No ICE beyond 2025.

What a concept.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

It is real because they have a standard they are unwilling to compromise.

No ICE beyond 2025.

What a concept.

One more reason they're out of their minds there. No ice past 2025? Socialized medicine? Refugees? Government paid college? Its California on steroids. And California is ridiculous as it is.

[xQx]

All this discussion about what you'll do if the power is out for one night. You do know the range is >400km (~250mi). Like, about the same as what we all get from a tank of gas in our 1er (assuming you drive slightly enthusiastically).

Is everyone here filling up at the gas station DAILY?

Look, I know it won't suit everyone, some of you have a very long commute, or travel during the day - but my previous question stands: how many of us really have to fill our 1er up at the gas station every day (or even every other day)?

Check out what the Telsa owners are saying: https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forum...o-you-recharge

tl;dr: Most people charge every night when they get home (no, not driving miles out of their way for a supercharger like we do for e85, go home, plug in) . Some people charge about twice a week. Nobody is particularly stressed if they miss a charge because:

Most people don't travel > 125mi per day.

If you do, you're probably going to keep your ICE car. But then, you're probably going to want an ICE car with a 25 gallon fuel tank.

For most people, doing less than 200 miles a day is not a compromise.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

It is real because they have a standard they are unwilling to compromise.

No ICE beyond 2025.

What a concept.

Go ICE-free my man, then come back and talk to me. LOL

I was cutting grass with a GE Electrak in 1973. Were you even born then?

[xQx]

Ya know what's more inconvenient for most people than a car which can only travel 250 miles per day?

Having a car with only four seats. Even worse, having a car with only TWO DOORS.

I mean, what a PITA. How the hell are you going to get the family, guests or a dog into such an impractical POS.

Any car company that manufactures a car like this must be bloody mad.
Nobody would ever buy it.

Why would anyone ever compromise their standards to such an extent that they'd even consider something like that?

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

One more reason they're out of their minds there. No ice past 2025? Socialized medicine? Refugees? Government paid college? Its California on steroids. And California is ridiculous as it is.

If you say so.

Some might say we are all out of our minds on one thing or another.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Go ICE-free my man, then come back and talk to me. LOL

I was cutting grass with a GE Electrak in 1973. Were you even born then?

I went the other way. Push and electric lawn, other tools as a kid. When I started buying tools I was soooo happy to finally get ICE ones. Such an improvement many tasks went from chores to enjoyable. My father was paranoid about house fires so he got rid of them before i was born. His cousin's family died in a house fire so he was always worried. I was the one who paid the price though using inferiir tools, taking twice as long to do chores, etc. Electric chainsaw, mower, blower etc etc. Mind numbing.