Tesla Model 3

[fr240]

Anyone here put down a reservation for one of these?

There seems to be little mention of performance tuned dynamics versus comfort oriented setups or even having an option of having a "sport package" with more aggressive damping/spring rates/anti-roll bars. Basing this on the Model S, the option was to have airbag suspension, which does little more than height adjustment.

I think that for many of us, having poor handling will be a dealbreaker if the car is set out to impress the majority of the public who are more concerned with techno wizardry and gimmicks compared to driving dynamics.

I've gotten some seat time in a few of the Model S variants and thought the steering feel was very artificial, but despite the car weighing more than the moon, it managed to corner flat and be very responsive. I am hoping the Model 3 will be this way as well, but with a lower rotational inertia, so even more agile feeling.

Another main beef I have with Tesla, despite using great RWD setups, is that their models are still open differential, but at least the response time of the motors is excellent and untouchable by any conventional engines, and combined with braking of individual wheels, it can simulate a limited slip differential in most situations where one would be useful (e.g. low traction situations).

Also, judging from the pictures and plans, the seating position for the drivers seems to be quite far forward which can also be a dealbreaker. Anyways, what are your thoughts on this car and what are you expecting from the budget model?

[CosmosMpower]

I did the first day for internet orders, already forgot about it till now. I ordered it since it was theoretically going to be pretty cheap after rebates and I was just going to use it as a utility vehicle/beater/daily driver like a Prius. I'm not super excited about it one way or the other. If the federal rebate is gone by the time my order is up I won't get one.

I don't care too much about handling dynamics, open vs. closed diff or any other nerd stuff on this kind of car. It's not a sports car and if it's better to drive than an average SUV or econobox it's fine by me.

[KenB925]

This car will not be a handling machine, and it certainly won't put up 'track' numbers.

There will be a version that is quick in a straight line, I'm sure. Thats not what is needed from this car, this car needs to bring electric cars to the masses, and it has to work for the masses.

Tesla took a very "Porsche" approach when releasing the Model S. I'll compare it to the Cayenne. When Porsche released the first Gen Cayenne they made an SUV that could do everything (even if it didn't have to) to shut up the naysayers. It had a transfer case with low range, you could get skid plates, it had some insane fording capability, it could tow 7700lbs. They did this to prove that they could and that it was a legit SUV, after that they didn't have to prove anything anymore. The next gen lost the transfer case, and nobody ever bothered to take another one off road, now with the Macan, nobody gave it a second thought.

Tesla did this with the Model S, they had to legitimize the electric car, and they did. They gave it huge range, decent handling (my understanding is that traction control gets in the way of serious hoonery), and made it just about the quickest thing on the planet with a license plate, and added in autopilot for good measure.

Now they don't have to 'prove it' any more, now they have to make an affordable car that works. I wish them success. I will probably own a Tesla in four years or so (but I do have a bad habit of accelerating my schedules on fun stuff).

[insanecoder]

Had a good friend test one and he said he did not like the looks nor handling and it was like driving a sewing machine you have to keep the pedals depressed the whole time.

[fr240]

I tried doing donuts in the Model S 85D to test the AWD, but even with the traction control "disabled" I was still unable to due to the intervention. The Model S P90 was ridiculously quick and the response time/torque availability was better than anything I've ever driven, made even better because of a single gear. The S85 is still not bad to drive, but the old seats were garbage and didn't hold you in at all. Seats make a huge difference for me vs other aspects of the interior. I love my E90 sport seats, but wish I had lumbar support.

Regarding expectations for the car, this will be the first new car I'll even consider buying, so my expectations are very high since I can buy a used M3 for that price and have money left over for maintenance and repairs. I feel like I'm setting myself up for pure disappointment.

Over here in Ontario, we get a massive rebate (~15K maple syrup dollars), so that's another reason why I put down the deposit. Just seeing the prototype's 2 spoke steering wheel grossed me out, but new spy photos show that they're going to have a proper 3 spoke.

I might even go with the base rims (made ugly on purpose to generate more money and keep stated base price as low as possible) and then upgrade them myself. I remember the Model S having a $4k option to upgrade to the turbines.

[KenB925]

Originally Posted by fr240

I tried doing donuts in the Model S 85D to test the AWD, but even with the traction control "disabled" I was still unable to due to the intervention. The Model S P90 was ridiculously quick and the response time/torque availability was better than anything I've ever driven, made even better because of a single gear. The S85 is still not bad to drive, but the old seats were garbage and didn't hold you in at all. Seats make a huge difference for me vs other aspects of the interior. I love my E90 sport seats, but wish I had lumbar support.

Regarding expectations for the car, this will be the first new car I'll even consider buying, so my expectations are very high since I can buy a used M3 for that price and have money left over for maintenance and repairs. I feel like I'm setting myself up for pure disappointment.

Over here in Ontario, we get a massive rebate (~15K maple syrup dollars), so that's another reason why I put down the deposit. Just seeing the prototype's 2 spoke steering wheel grossed me out, but new spy photos show that they're going to have a proper 3 spoke.

I might even go with the base rims (made ugly on purpose to generate more money and keep stated base price as low as possible) and then upgrade them myself. I remember the Model S having a $4k option to upgrade to the turbines.

If the tech isn't interesting to you, and you want a real drivers car, I don't think the Tesla 3 is for you.

[Germanauto]

Take it from somebody who used to work regularly with Tesla clients.

Their customers are all about tech and the latest gadgets. Most of them aren't "real" car people who care about driving dynamics. They love Teslas b/c it is like the Apple of the car world. Tesla is truly the most "current" and technologically-advanced automaker out there. It is the first car that's like a smart phone on wheels. When it comes to performance they are mediocre outside a 0-60 and 1/4 mile run. The Model S' I've driven felt just like the F10 Bimmer which isn't a good thing. Competent, but certainly no sport sedan.

So the Model 3 will obviously cater to their tastes. The interior is going to be exceedingly plain and it will have zero steering feel and corner competently but not like any proper sport sedan. That's OK, cause it checks all the boxes that matter for its clients. I think it's gonna be a massive success.

[Red Bread]

Just curious, but who makes a sports sedan? The ATS and Alfa Giulia are about all I'd consider valid sports sedans. It sure sure isn't our F30. And they can't give the Cadillac away.

Catering to straight line performance and comfort is selling cars. BMW tossed 30+ years of heritage out to acknowledge that and sells the bejesus out of boring cars now. Tesla probably took the right approach here.

Competent but no sports sedan. Maybe BMW can replace the Ultimate Driving Machine with that.

[c1pher]

I almost did but then learned there wouldn't be free supercharging and I read that the warranty would be 100,000 miles on the drivetrain components vs unlimited on the Model S. At that point I said I would either get an Audi RS3, S3 or Golf R for a daily driver to replace my Avalon Hybrid, if I even do. The Avalon is quite nice, 40mpg, and I can go 650 miles on a tank of gas. It obviously isn't as fast as the Model 3 or other cars I just mentioned but is very spacious, fairly luxurious and has a dreamy ride.

[Bongoxxx]

I'm on the waiting list to potentially buy as a daily driver/commuter car for my wife. Waiting to see what options will be available versus what's available on the model S. My sister has a Model X P100D and my brother-in-law is on his third Model S which is also a P100D.
I haven't driven the X yet but have driven all of the Model S''s (P85, P90D and the P100D). The straight line performance is unlike anything I've ever driven. The technology is amazing, but not without some issues.

[xQx]

Having never had the fortune to get near a Tesla, I'm only regurgitating what others have said with a knowledge of physics.

The model S had fantastic occupant safety. You can pile 8 of them on top of each other before the roof of the bottom one caves in. I expect the same for the Model 3.

Prototype photos of the model 3 are a very minimalist design - not unlike the original iPhone. It'll be wildly criticized but eventually people will get used to it and rave about its simplicity. I expect all the 'connected' features of the S will carry through to the 3, and so will a lot of the other features (panoramic sunroof, air suspension etc) abit in the form of Porsche-priced add-ons.

The Model S has both loved and hated by performance enthusiasts. It's utterly useless in a Motorkhana. It lacks feel on the track and weighs twice as much as the next car, but it gets very reasonable numbers because it has unmatched acceleration, awesome brakes and a very low center of gravity.

But in traffic, being able to accelerate at a ludicrous rate, never be in the wrong gear, stop quickly, and have almost zero body roll is more important than being able to feel when you're 9/10ths of the limit. The other problem is the Model S is actually a very big car, apparently it's like parking a boat.

I'm excited about the model 3 for one reason - Elon has said ludicrous mode will be available in the Model 3. It logically follows that soon after the initial release we'll get an AWD version - which means a car with poor driver feedback but unmatched acceleration, fantastic breaking, low CoG and low body roll in a small and cheap package. My best analogy is that it'll be like what it was like to step into a WRX in 1994.

Compared with the Legacy RS, the WRX boasted cheap plastic trim, a harsh ride, basic equipment levels, loads of turbo lag and enough room that you could get comfortable if you were less than 5 ft tall. But, they accelerated like a rocket, handled like they were on rails, and gave you E46 M3 like connectivity to the road.

It's like when you get one of our cars and do a big single-turbo conversion to put out 600rwhp - there's turbo lag, but even when it's slow it's bloody fast just because of the raw power.

I haven't put a deposit down, but this is the first car I'm considering buying new. But yeah, I'm waiting for a 'D' version with ludicrous mode before I join the queue.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Just curious, but who makes a sports sedan? The ATS and Alfa Giulia are about all I'd consider valid sports sedans. It sure sure isn't our F30. And they can't give the Cadillac away.

Catering to straight line performance and comfort is selling cars. BMW tossed 30+ years of heritage out to acknowledge that and sells the bejesus out of boring cars now. Tesla probably took the right approach here.

Competent but no sports sedan. Maybe BMW can replace the Ultimate Driving Machine with that.

?

[catskillclimber]

Where are people who don't have a garage or at least own a home going to charge an "affordable" vehicle like this. Plenty of condo, town home, apt dwellers with no easy way to charge at home. Not to mention dragging a charging cord through snow, ice if you don't have a garage. And for those in temp challenged areas that deal with months below freezing its hard to imagine cabin heating and cold battery issues not dinging the range enough to limit its appeal. If it is your only car there at still to many limitations.

[obert]

Originally Posted by catskillclimber

Where are people who don't have a garage or at least own a home going to charge an "affordable" vehicle like this. Plenty of condo, town home, apt dwellers with no easy way to charge at home. Not to mention dragging a charging cord through snow, ice if you don't have a garage. And for those in temp challenged areas that deal with months below freezing its hard to imagine cabin heating and cold battery issues not dinging the range enough to limit its appeal. If it is your only car there at still to many limitations.

Simple you don't buy one and put yourself in this situation. Lots of affordable gas/hybrid to choose from.

[NickyC]

Wonder how much per car Tesla will lose on the Model 3? Oh that's right, they'll make it up in volume.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...model-3-launch

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Had a good friend test one and he said he did not like the looks nor handling and it was like driving a sewing machine you have to keep the pedals depressed the whole time.

That's any EV. Drive a BMW one and as soon as you take your foot off the throttle all forward momentum stops. Just something to get used to.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by catskillclimber

Where are people who don't have a garage or at least own a home going to charge an "affordable" vehicle like this. Plenty of condo, town home, apt dwellers with no easy way to charge at home. Not to mention dragging a charging cord through snow, ice if you don't have a garage. And for those in temp challenged areas that deal with months below freezing its hard to imagine cabin heating and cold battery issues not dinging the range enough to limit its appeal. If it is your only car there at still to many limitations.

I see people driving model S and Xs up here in Alaska, so I think they'll be ok.

[ORIGIN M.]

Sorry I think your friend lied to you.

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Had a good friend test one and he said he did not like the looks nor handling...

[David70]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Had a good friend test one and he said he did not like the looks nor handling and it was like driving a sewing machine you have to keep the pedals depressed the whole time.

Unless he works for Tesla and is part of the testing group then I am also saying he is lying to you.

I also think the goal of this car isn't to be a sports sedan but instead to cater to the masses. I also wouldn't expect a mini "S" that is the same but smaller but also half the price. Compare a $35k BMW to an $70k BMW and note the differences.

[insanecoder]

Originally Posted by David70

Unless he works for Tesla and is part of the testing group then I am also saying he is lying to you.

I also think the goal of this car isn't to be a sports sedan but instead to cater to the masses. I also wouldn't expect a mini "S" that is the same but smaller but also half the price. Compare a $35k BMW to an $70k BMW and note the differences.

Hes a bit of a bigshot and doesnt need to lie.. guys who have everything dont need to brag
and car companies have been trying to dethrone BMW for nearly half century some lil startup company in california is not likely to do it

[FC4]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Hes a bit of a bigshot and doesnt need to lie.. guys who have everything dont need to brag
and car companies have been trying to dethrone BMW for nearly half century some lil startup company in california is not likely to do it

I assure you he was lying. He was just swinging his dick because he knew he could get away with it since you think he is a "big shot."

Outlining in detail why I am positive he hasn't driven a Model 3 would require dick swinging of my own. Take my word for it.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

...and car companies have been trying to dethrone BMW for nearly half century...

Dethrone BMW from what? Even if you believe that BMW was ever on the "throne" they for sure dethroned themselves with recent products: FWD, Active Tourer, M-badges on every possible model... etc. Can't even make electric steering right for like 10 years, or fix numerous issues with V8 engines.