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      02-28-2013, 11:47 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I do believe that the M3 will pull away in triple digits due to the aerodynamic advantage. But that doesn't matter in 0-60 (where the X1 WILL absolutely win) and in most real-world cases.
Wasn't the original challenge your X1 vs a 135i w/JB4? I still don't see how the X1 would win in any scenario.
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      02-28-2013, 11:56 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by nospam View Post
Wasn't the original challenge your X1 vs a 135i w/JB4? I still don't see how the X1 would win in any scenario.
Technically, original challenge was my X1 vs a stock 135 (he did not list mods in signature). An equivalently modded 135 will always beat a X1 due to the weight advantage.

That being said, my particular X1 has a chance against his 135i because I am running e85 and he is not. That race would be closer than the M3 race - his modded 135 is significantly faster than a M3. Honestly though if he runs an aggressive meth mixture he'd probably beat me - I'd have more power, he'd be a lot lighter.

And of course, keep in mind that everything I say is dependent on my particular X1. An X1 in a part of the country that can not run e85 does not have much of a chance vs. either a M3 or a modded 135i (unless you want to run race gas).
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      03-01-2013, 12:15 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
I seriously would love to see the race between that X1 and a stock M3. Taking on Keith's (klammer) M3 wouldn't be fair... mostly because he is insane.
Actually, Insanity's my middle name
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      03-01-2013, 02:32 AM   #92
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I went to buy a M3 when the new body style was introduced, i usually buy what ever the new hot car is at the time, after drving the car i was not impressed, very heavy, no fun factor at all, my 2002 M3 was more fun driving, needless to say i did not purchase it, i can say i think the nicest bmw i ever owned was my 2006 M6, very impressive and what a well built quality car, of course at $117k it should have been, i like the x1 fun to drive, i put down pipes and jb4 tune, i lowered car and installed 19 inch M6 wheels, the car has a very aggressive stance now, changed the whole appearance, i will post pics when i get a chance, as you can see i have had the pleasure of owning several cars to compare over the years, by far the fastest car i owned was the 2002 996 TT Evo, it ran 10 second 1/4 mile, what a blast...i miss it :, the funnest car i currently own is the Bmw 135...

Currently Owned Vehicles

2013 VW Turbo Beetle Conv., 60's Edition, Blue/Black Blue Leather, Dsg, Nav, Fender Stereo, APR Tuned 285 HP
2013 BMW X1 35i, X Line, Dark Blue/Saddle, JB4, BMS Down Pipes, Lowered, 19" M6 Wheels
2011 Kia Sportage SX Turbo Silver/Black
2009 BMW 135i, Red/Beige, Spt, Prem, Nav, JB4, PLM Down Pipes
2007 BMW 335i Conv (Selling) Spt, Prem, Nav, HK Sound

Previously Owned Vehicles

2010 Merz GLK 350 Black/Black, AMG
2008 Merz CLK 63 Black Series, Black/Black
2008 VW R32 Blue/Black
2008 Mits EVO Blue/Black
2008 Merz S63 Flint Gray/Black
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Yellow/Black
2006 Merz S65 Black/Black, Renntech 725HP
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Red/Black
2006 Subaru STi Blue/Black, Heavily Modified
2006 BMW M6 Silver/Black
2005 MINI Cooper S Conv Yellow/Blue, Modified
2005 VW Beetle Turbo Conv Cyber Green/Tan
2005 Acura NSX Yellow/Black
2004 Audi S4 Avant, Yellow/Black
2004 Porsche Cayenne Turbo Silver/Gray EVO 550 HP
2004 Merz SL600 Mars Red/Tan, Renntech 645 HP
2004 Merz E55 Silver/Gray, Renntech 585 HP
2004 Merz SL55 Silver/Gray Renntech
2002 BMW M3 Cab
2002 Porsche 996TT Yellow/Black EVO Stage 4, 720 HP
1997 Ferrari F355 Spider Red/tan
1995 Ferarri F355 Spider Yellow/Black
1992 Lamborghini Diablo White/Red
1986 Lamborghini Countach Black/Tan
1986 Porsche 911 Factory Slant Nose Turbo Black/Black
1985 Renault R5 Turbo
1985 Porsche 930 Ruf Turbo
1984 Chevrolet Corvette Bronze/Bronze, Sport Seats, Z51, 4+3 Manual
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      03-01-2013, 06:50 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
You're missing e85. With downpipe it has more horsepower than a stock M3, and even without downpipe it puts down essentially equivalent rwhp with a M3 (you lose about 20hp). On map 5 (e85 autoadjust map) it puts down 389rwhp and 479lbft torque. Just a tune and chargepipe will run you about $500-600 (JB4 can be had new at discount). A lot of these developments are recent so I understand if a lot of M3 owners aren't aware of them; most gains were realized in the last couple of months with the advent of the ISO firmware (isolated boost control) for the JB4.



Here's one for a stock M3:



Again, I'm absolutely not saying the X1 is a better car than the M3. M3 is faster around the track, has a nicer interior, is probably more reliable stock, etc, etc, etc. All I'm trying to say is that a lightly modded X1 is more than competitive in a straight line (and only in a straight line) with a STOCK M3. The dyno's speak for themselves.

I get that it's cute to cross post the thread and have a self-congratulatory circle jerk that your M3 is a better car than an entry level X1 that costs HALF as much, but what you're not getting is that never once did I try to compare the X1 with any aspect of the clearly superior M3 other than straight line performance.

But hey, if this is cross posted at the M3 forum, I'll call you out. If there is a stock M3 that is willing to race me at Edgewater Raceway in Cincinnati, I'll buy you dinner whether I win or lose and we'll videotape it and have a good time.

Any takers?
Easy dude - this is an enthusiast forum where performance axioms are always going to be the subject of spirited discussion.

On that, I still don't really understand your claim that a car running a Stage 2, Map 1 (or 2) with or w/o a DP is making 425hp... or how a dyno of a rw car with an IC, CP, DP, tune and extremely aggressive 50/50 mix of E85 (and do I read a WW kit as well?) is a 'lightly modded'... it's impressive nonetheless. I'm really surprised how much power Terry was able to extract from that little snail, especially after all of the dire statements made when he first dissected it.

That said, I think you might be giving folks the wrong impression. An N55 with Stage 2, map 1 (even with a charge pipe, or even DP on map 2) - while very quick and a heck of a bargain, isn't going to walk any car with 400+hp.

As for me, I really liked my E90 N55... but the power felt too manufactured, non-linear (downshifting was an exercise - at least compared to an M3) and the prospect of making real power meant (at least to me) jeopardizing my warranty and losing sleep over what I was doing to the car, long-term.

For sport, I would very much like to see this race, tuned 135i, tuned X1 and stock M3 to the 1/4mile. Oh and you should run best 2/3, with short intervals in between

With an IC, my money is on the 135i.
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      03-01-2013, 08:24 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riM3 View Post
Easy dude - this is an enthusiast forum where performance axioms are always going to be the subject of spirited discussion.

I still don't really understand your claim that a car running a Stage 2 Map 1 with or w/o a DP is making 425hp... or how a dyno of a rw car with an IC, CP, DP, aggressive tune and extremely aggressive 50/50 mix of E85 (and do I read a WW kit as well?) is a 'lightly modded'... but it's impressive nonetheless.
I never said map 1...I was talking about map 5 the entire time. Also have no idea where you got 425hp from, I never claimed that either. We all know that IC gains don't really dyno; they just prevent heatsoak - and there is no meth kit on that car (again, where did you see a WW kit listed???). So the only difference between that car and my X1 as far as power goes is downpipes, which add about 20hp.

I do consider a car with simply a tune, chargepipe, and E85 lightly modded - as I think many people do. These are mods you can return to stock in 30 minutes flat by yourself. Heavily modded would include stuff like meth, RB turbos, etc.
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      03-01-2013, 08:32 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3
I never said map 1...I was talking about map 5 the entire time. Also have no idea where you got 425hp from, I never claimed that either. We all know that IC gains don't really dyno; they just prevent heatsoak - and there is no meth kit on that car (again, where did you see a WW kit listed???). So the only difference between that car and my X1 as far as power goes is downpipes, which add about 20hp.

I do consider a car with simply a tune, chargepipe, and E85 lightly modded - as I think many people do. These are mods you can return to stock in 30 minutes flat by yourself. Heavily modded would include stuff like meth, RB turbos, etc.
Edited my post above to be a bit less bombastic.

I was referring to your statement that "even without a DP, it's making essentially the same RWHP as an M3" (I'd quote but I'm now mobile).

Can you run E85 on Map 5 without a DP?
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      03-01-2013, 08:44 AM   #96
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      03-01-2013, 08:45 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw5406spd View Post
I went to buy a M3 when the new body style was introduced, i usually buy what ever the new hot car is at the time, after drving the car i was not impressed, very heavy, no fun factor at all, my 2002 M3 was more fun driving, needless to say i did not purchase it, i can say i think the nicest bmw i ever owned was my 2006 M6, very impressive and what a well built quality car, of course at $117k it should have been, i like the x1 fun to drive, i put down pipes and jb4 tune, i lowered car and installed 19 inch M6 wheels, the car has a very aggressive stance now, changed the whole appearance, i will post pics when i get a chance, as you can see i have had the pleasure of owning several cars to compare over the years, by far the fastest car i owned was the 2002 996 TT Evo, it ran 10 second 1/4 mile, what a blast...i miss it :, the funnest car i currently own is the Bmw 135...

Currently Owned Vehicles

2013 VW Turbo Beetle Conv., 60's Edition, Blue/Black Blue Leather, Dsg, Nav, Fender Stereo, APR Tuned 285 HP
2013 BMW X1 35i, X Line, Dark Blue/Saddle, JB4, BMS Down Pipes, Lowered, 19" M6 Wheels
2011 Kia Sportage SX Turbo Silver/Black
2009 BMW 135i, Red/Beige, Spt, Prem, Nav, JB4, PLM Down Pipes
2007 BMW 335i Conv (Selling) Spt, Prem, Nav, HK Sound

Previously Owned Vehicles

2010 Merz GLK 350 Black/Black, AMG
2008 Merz CLK 63 Black Series, Black/Black
2008 VW R32 Blue/Black
2008 Mits EVO Blue/Black
2008 Merz S63 Flint Gray/Black
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Yellow/Black
2006 Merz S65 Black/Black, Renntech 725HP
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Red/Black
2006 Subaru STi Blue/Black, Heavily Modified
2006 BMW M6 Silver/Black
2005 MINI Cooper S Conv Yellow/Blue, Modified
2005 VW Beetle Turbo Conv Cyber Green/Tan
2005 Acura NSX Yellow/Black
2004 Audi S4 Avant, Yellow/Black
2004 Porsche Cayenne Turbo Silver/Gray EVO 550 HP
2004 Merz SL600 Mars Red/Tan, Renntech 645 HP
2004 Merz E55 Silver/Gray, Renntech 585 HP
2004 Merz SL55 Silver/Gray Renntech
2002 BMW M3 Cab
2002 Porsche 996TT Yellow/Black EVO Stage 4, 720 HP
1997 Ferrari F355 Spider Red/tan
1995 Ferarri F355 Spider Yellow/Black
1992 Lamborghini Diablo White/Red
1986 Lamborghini Countach Black/Tan
1986 Porsche 911 Factory Slant Nose Turbo Black/Black
1985 Renault R5 Turbo
1985 Porsche 930 Ruf Turbo
1984 Chevrolet Corvette Bronze/Bronze, Sport Seats, Z51, 4+3 Manual
Just stop man. Enough is enough. Your opinions are somewhat mute at this point and it's kind of sad.
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      03-01-2013, 09:11 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by John Tanglewood View Post
Just stop man. Enough is enough. Your opinions are somewhat mute at this point and it's kind of sad.
Actually what's sad is your the continued reading fail of M3 owners. He's not the poster you think he is....

And by the way, I think you met "moot," not "mute."
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      03-01-2013, 09:11 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riM3 View Post
Edited my post above to be a bit less bombastic.

I was referring to your statement that "even without a DP, it's making essentially the same RWHP as an M3" (I'd quote but I'm now mobile).

Can you run E85 on Map 5 without a DP?
Yes, no downpipe required for e85.
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      03-01-2013, 09:25 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Actually what's sad is your the continued reading fail of M3 owners. He's not the poster you think he is....

And by the way, I think you met "moot," not "mute."
Correct, I meant 'moot'. And if that first sentence is any indication of your grammar, I'm very surprised you were able to correct me.

And I don't really care who he is. Listing all the cars you've owned since 1984 as a way to prove that you've experienced variety is a tool thing to do. Nobody really cares that he claims to have owned 25+ cars. That's it, that's all. Sorry for commenting on this "discussion".
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      03-01-2013, 09:43 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by bmw5406spd View Post

Currently Owned Vehicles

2013 VW Turbo Beetle Conv., 60's Edition, Blue/Black Blue Leather, Dsg, Nav, Fender Stereo, APR Tuned 285 HP
2013 BMW X1 35i, X Line, Dark Blue/Saddle, JB4, BMS Down Pipes, Lowered, 19" M6 Wheels
2011 Kia Sportage SX Turbo Silver/Black
2009 BMW 135i, Red/Beige, Spt, Prem, Nav, JB4, PLM Down Pipes
2007 BMW 335i Conv (Selling) Spt, Prem, Nav, HK Sound

Previously Owned Vehicles

2010 Merz GLK 350 Black/Black, AMG
2008 Merz CLK 63 Black Series, Black/Black
2008 VW R32 Blue/Black
2008 Mits EVO Blue/Black
2008 Merz S63 Flint Gray/Black
2007 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Yellow/Black
2006 Merz S65 Black/Black, Renntech 725HP
2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Red/Black
2006 Subaru STi Blue/Black, Heavily Modified
2006 BMW M6 Silver/Black
2005 MINI Cooper S Conv Yellow/Blue, Modified
2005 VW Beetle Turbo Conv Cyber Green/Tan
2005 Acura NSX Yellow/Black
2004 Audi S4 Avant, Yellow/Black
2004 Porsche Cayenne Turbo Silver/Gray EVO 550 HP
2004 Merz SL600 Mars Red/Tan, Renntech 645 HP
2004 Merz E55 Silver/Gray, Renntech 585 HP
2004 Merz SL55 Silver/Gray Renntech
2002 BMW M3 Cab
2002 Porsche 996TT Yellow/Black EVO Stage 4, 720 HP
1997 Ferrari F355 Spider Red/tan
1995 Ferarri F355 Spider Yellow/Black
1992 Lamborghini Diablo White/Red
1986 Lamborghini Countach Black/Tan
1986 Porsche 911 Factory Slant Nose Turbo Black/Black
1985 Renault R5 Turbo
1985 Porsche 930 Ruf Turbo
1984 Chevrolet Corvette Bronze/Bronze, Sport Seats, Z51, 4+3 Manual
Conspicuously absent is your BMW 540i 6spd??? I just assumed..:.
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      03-01-2013, 10:20 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by nospam View Post
Conspicuously absent is your BMW 540i 6spd??? I just assumed..:.
hehehe...thinking same thing. Going back 10 yrs. there was a dude (BMWSTREETRACER) on the Roadfly E46 forum that would post the same kinda crap listing all his cars in nearbout every thread. It was eventually determined that he was driving his parent's Volvo wagon...only on weekends.
IIRC, he was from FL too.
Just sayin'

Hey whay happened to Volvo XC60 in this thread?
Could it be?... a threadjack?
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      03-01-2013, 11:19 AM   #103
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ye if i add an engine to my bicycle, turbocharge it, i'll be faster than my m3 too haha
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      03-01-2013, 12:19 PM   #104
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I'd question the wisdom of running that type of power long term or even short term on an X1, though I do think packing that much power into an SAV that's not expected to be that quick off the line is quite amusing.

For the transmission, the X1 xDrive35i uses a ZF6hp19 according to bmw parts catelogs (though there are some reports on the 3 series forums that the 35i matched 6hp19 trans is a 6HP19TU (aka zf 6hp21 possibly)). If the X1 has the standard HP19 transmission it's only designed for up to 295lb and if it has the stronger HP21 trans it's still only designed up to 335lb.

If you're really pushing close to 500lb or even over 400lb I don't know how long that transmission is going to hold up.
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      03-01-2013, 01:06 PM   #105
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      03-01-2013, 01:14 PM   #106
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I'm so confused by this post...
So am I. If he can own all the car he said he owned. why get rid of them for 135 335 and a kia.....
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      03-01-2013, 01:51 PM   #107
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      03-01-2013, 02:24 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by edx1 View Post
I'd question the wisdom of running that type of power long term or even short term on an X1, though I do think packing that much power into an SAV that's not expected to be that quick off the line is quite amusing.

For the transmission, the X1 xDrive35i uses a ZF6hp19 according to bmw parts catelogs (though there are some reports on the 3 series forums that the 35i matched 6hp19 trans is a 6HP19TU (aka zf 6hp21 possibly)). If the X1 has the standard HP19 transmission it's only designed for up to 295lb and if it has the stronger HP21 trans it's still only designed up to 335lb.

If you're really pushing close to 500lb or even over 400lb I don't know how long that transmission is going to hold up.
Agreed. And this is one of the biggest issues with modding cars. Anything can be made to run pretty fast... reliability is the issue and I've put my car through the paces again and again and it's on point...
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      03-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #109
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Agreed. And this is one of the biggest issues with modding cars. Anything can be made to run pretty fast... reliability is the issue and I've put my car through the paces again and again and it's on point...
Generally yes, but the same transmission is in use on other N55 powered cars and to the best of my knowledge there has never been a transmission failure. That being said, you're right - a stock M3 is probably more reliable than a modded N55. Turbo engines in general can be finicky.

The issue of warranty is a valid one. However, If one was so inclined, they could remove the required mods within 30 minutes and have their warranty honored. Keep in mind, running 18PSI is only a couple psi over the maximum Dinan tunes - which are warrantied.
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      03-01-2013, 02:43 PM   #110
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