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      06-08-2014, 01:59 PM   #23
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I expect that if problems with the starter or battery do start to surface due to ongoing use of ASS, I'll have a few years advanced notice from other drivers who have earlier model years given that ASS has been around for several years.

I'm not opposed to proactively replacing my starter years down the road as I expect to keep my X1 for quite a long time. I owned my previous car (an M Roadster) for 9 years.
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      06-08-2014, 04:07 PM   #24
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So the main argument against Stop Start is that you may have to prematurely replace the relative cheap starter motor but are not worried about the wear on all the other bits that keep moving if the engine doesn't stop. The oil doesn't instantly return to the sump once the engine stops, so the parts will still be lubricated once it restarts.
I'm sure BMW engineers know what they're doing.
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      06-08-2014, 04:37 PM   #25
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Hi Guys

Just for info... my X1 is now just over 4 years old. It's an MY10 Sdrive 18d. I've just clocked up 71000 miles (64000 of those my miles in 3 years) and I'm still on the orginal starter motor and battery. My ASS is on all the time, unless I've got the AC on and stopped at the lights, which having the AC on in England doesn't happen very often!

I'm lucky in a way as I drive 400 miles a week, so the battery gets a good charge. I use the motorways in England at lot, and the ASS is used numerous times on my commute to/from work.

No problems to report at all, though I guess it makes sense the starter will fail at some point.

J.
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      06-09-2014, 03:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royleblue View Post
So the main argument against Stop Start is that you may have to prematurely replace the relative cheap starter motor but are not worried about the wear on all the other bits that keep moving if the engine doesn't stop. The oil doesn't instantly return to the sump once the engine stops, so the parts will still be lubricated once it restarts.
I'm sure BMW engineers know what they're doing.
I'm not worried about wear on internal engine components while idling for 2 or 3 minutes at a time. At all. My main argument is that it's annoying.

I agree with you about the lubrication when using start/stop.

I don't doubt BMW engineers, it's the "bean counters" that scare me.
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      06-09-2014, 09:22 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by fdpxfunix View Post
Hi Guys

Just for info... my X1 is now just over 4 years old. It's an MY10 Sdrive 18d. I've just clocked up 71000 miles (64000 of those my miles in 3 years) and I'm still on the orginal starter motor and battery. My ASS is on all the time, unless I've got the AC on and stopped at the lights, which having the AC on in England doesn't happen very often!

I'm lucky in a way as I drive 400 miles a week, so the battery gets a good charge. I use the motorways in England at lot, and the ASS is used numerous times on my commute to/from work.

No problems to report at all, though I guess it makes sense the starter will fail at some point.

J.
From what I have read the vehicles made with Stop/Start have bigger batteries and starters and they don't fail earlier. Yes everything on the vehicle will eventually fail if used long enough. Like power windows and power top but I don't hear people asking for manual versions.
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      06-10-2014, 11:27 AM   #28
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I usually switch it off as I find it annoying. It reminds me of the 'good' old days when it was difficult to get a car to idle (remember chokes !) so everytime it kicks in I think the engines cut-out

I priced up the battery on mine - which also has charges when braking - and it's a whopping Ł285...........and that's not even at a BMW dealer.

I also drive lots of rentals which almost all have this feature

I agree though - I'm sure that the guys at BMW know what they're doing and have engineered appropriatelly
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      06-12-2014, 04:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Twix View Post
For me, because I intend on keeping this car for awhile, I don't use it. Every time the engine stops, so does the flow of oil. When it starts back up there's that few moments in time where some parts aren't lubricated thus causing wear. These parts to me are much more expensive than an extra 1000 dollars over a 4 year period.
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      06-13-2014, 10:49 AM   #30
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The drivers in my family all find it annoying. Dealer is going to program it away next visit. For us, this has nothing to do with engine life or gas mileage. We just plain don't like it and prefer to have the car default to off rather than on since we often forget to shut it.
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      06-13-2014, 11:00 AM   #31
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Starting the car costs battery charge which costs more gas until a road trip fully charges battery so I don't see any savings from ASS.

The best thing for gas mileage is careful inputs of throttle which can be achieved with cruise which I even use in town.

It's easier to speed up or slow down with buttons for me.
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      06-13-2014, 11:08 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
Starting the car costs battery charge which costs more gas until a road trip fully charges battery so I don't see any savings from ASS.

The best thing for gas mileage is careful inputs of throttle which can be achieved with cruise which I even use in town.

It's easier to speed up or slow down with buttons for me.
I have been saving 3 miles per gallon since I started using ASS.
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      06-13-2014, 08:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by 0w40X1 View Post
Starting the car costs battery charge which costs more gas until a road trip fully charges battery so I don't see any savings from ASS.
The X1 has brake energy regeneration that also charges the battery so you don't necessarily spend fuel to charge the battery. It also seems reasonable that, all things considered, you will save fuel if you're switching off the engine especially if you have long stop lights in your area. I can appreciate that not everyone likes their engine switching off but that's a different point than saying you won't save fuel.
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      06-14-2014, 05:06 AM   #34
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First thing I do when I get in is turn it off

My commute has a 25 mile motorway stretch .. To a traffic light controlled slip road.

It cannot be good for an engine just to stop after a prolonged high speed run surely ?

My previous bmw an e90 also with stop start needed a new starter motor after 18k miles
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      06-14-2014, 07:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Can_Car View Post
The X1 has brake energy regeneration that also charges the battery so you don't necessarily spend fuel to charge the battery. It also seems reasonable that, all things considered, you will save fuel if you're switching off the engine especially if you have long stop lights in your area. I can appreciate that not everyone likes their engine switching off but that's a different point than saying you won't save fuel.
The brake energy is the alternator kicking in while decelerating. If I'm cruising around town easy or on hwy it barely kicks in. I do live in city with no long lights or traffic jams, and I can see using ASS in some situations.

I run a scangauge, and watch voltage like a hawk since I found out how much voltage car can lose sitting for a few days.

Battery should be approx 12.6 volts charged up when you get in even if a few days.

I've caught car with numbers of 12.35 down to 12.05 which is quarter to half charged.

I just got back after 1000 mile trip while the alternator was charging the first 500 miles at 14.5 volts ALL THE TIME. That's a electric load and drag that costs fuel for 500 miles anyway you look at it.

On the way home the car voltage was mostly 12.2 to 13.0 which meant alternator not charging or dragging performance.

So next morning after locked up properly the battery is now charging 13.8 to 14.0 while driving.

In my world alternator charging is gas. any electric use is more charging which is more gas.

If I had a house to plug in trickle charger, I think the kwh would be inexpensive to keep the battery ready, but my car has to be self sufficient.

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      06-14-2014, 08:58 AM   #36
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Sorry for too much info.

If I could get 3mpg on ASS, I'd get it for a few weeks while moving to here where there are so few stops that it's irrelevant.

The battery costs approx $700. at BMW, and don't run anything that takes energy out that I don't need. I even turned off daytime running lights.
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      06-15-2014, 02:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Porter View Post
I agree though - I'm sure that the guys at BMW know what they're doing and have engineered appropriatelly
While true, I have a suspicion that this feature was driven by sales and marketing, and not by engineering, who just had to make the best out of it.

I just don't get why people would buy a sporty BMW and then use features making it less responsive and less fun to drive.

My X1 has passed 10,000 miles now after a year, at an average of 21 mpg. That's 476 gallons of fuel. If I had gotten 24 mpg by driving like a church lady with Eco PRO and ASS, it would have been 416 gallons. Sixty gallons @$3.90 per gallon is $234 per year, or less than a buck per day. If I can afford a cup of coffee a day, I can certainly afford not having Eco Pro or ASS either, and instead enjoy my ride.
I sometimes drive with the a/c on too. Sure it burns gas. So?
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      06-15-2014, 09:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Porter View Post
I agree though - I'm sure that the guys at BMW know what they're doing and have engineered appropriatelly
While true, I have a suspicion that this feature was driven by sales and marketing, and not by engineering, who just had to make the best out of it.

I just don't get why people would buy a sporty BMW and then use features making it less responsive and less fun to drive.

My X1 has passed 10,000 miles now after a year, at an average of 21 mpg. That's 476 gallons of fuel. If I had gotten 24 mpg by driving like a church lady with Eco PRO and ASS, it would have been 416 gallons. Sixty gallons @$3.90 per gallon is $234 per year, or less than a buck per day. If I can afford a cup of coffee a day, I can certainly afford not having Eco Pro or ASS either, and instead enjoy my ride.
I sometimes drive with the a/c on too. Sure it burns gas. So?
Eco Pro and ASS have nothing to do with one another. Eco Pro effects how the car drives. ASS turns off the engine when the car is not driving. Maybe you enjoy using gas to idle at a stop light for two minutes, if so, enjoy! I don't. And when the light turns green, then I do this crazy thing called taking my foot off the break, and then you and I have the exact same driving experiences, except I didn't just waste gas for two minutes. It's that simple and I can't understand why some of y'all are trying to make it more complicated.
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      06-15-2014, 11:00 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
Eco Pro and ASS have nothing to do with one another. Eco Pro effects how the car drives. ASS turns off the engine when the car is not driving.
Of course they are separate systems, captain Obvious, which is why I said "ASS and Eco PRO" and "ASS or Eco PRO". Note the words "and" and "or" which separates the two.

They have something in common in that both trade performance for reduced fuel consumption. With ASS, the engine has to start first before you can move, which impedes performance (which is why there is a button to turn it off).

The reason why I even mentioned Eco PRO (and driving like a church lady, and driving with A/C off) in a thread about ASS was because even the combination doesn't save enough fuel to make it worthwhile, so ASS on its own certainly won't. Compared to the other costs of keeping the car, the savings are negligible.

I believe that anyone who bought a BMW X1 28i/35i/25d and then looks for ways to trade driving fun for fuel economy bought the wrong car. If the ASS of a 28i was what tipped someone over into buying one, more fool them.

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And when the light turns green, then I do this crazy thing called taking my foot off the break, and then you and I have the exact same driving experiences, except I didn't just waste gas for two minutes.
When you take your foot off the brake, the car starts up, increases the rpms, engages first gear and then you can start rolling. By that time, I am already halfway across the intersection with a grin on my face, enjoying how the car is so responsive.

Last edited by Grovsnus; 06-15-2014 at 11:08 AM.. Reason: answering a second part to the post
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      06-15-2014, 11:59 AM   #40
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So much misinformation.
The transmission is already in 1st, the transmission hydraulic pressure is coming from an accumelator.
By the time your foot make it from the brake to the gas pedal the engine is already started.
If you need to be faster than that prevent the ASS cycle by manipulating the brake pedal, or start it early.
Read the manual.
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      06-15-2014, 12:16 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
Of course they are separate systems, captain Obvious, which is why I said "ASS and Eco PRO" and "ASS or Eco PRO". Note the words "and" and "or" which separates the two.
No need for name-calling. You brought Eco-Pro into a conversation that was not about it, at all, and in your reply, lumped them together. I thought that greatly weakened whatever argument you were trying to make.

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Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
They have something in common in that both trade performance for reduced fuel consumption. With ASS, the engine has to start first before you can move, which impedes performance (which is why there is a button to turn it off).
As I said in my specific example that you are replying to, and as many others have said in this thread, ASS is best used at stop lights. In these situations, you have plenty of warning before you have the opportunity to drive your vehicle again, meaning you can start it up, and be just as ready as someone who didn't use ASS, to move your vehicle when the opportunity to drive occurs. So there is literally nothing that impedes performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
The reason why I even mentioned Eco PRO (and driving like a church lady, and driving with A/C off) in a thread about ASS was because even the combination doesn't save enough fuel to make it worthwhile, so ASS on its own certainly won't. Compared to the other costs of keeping the car, the savings are negligible.
That's funny, in my opinion, the reason you brought in Eco-Pro and driving like a granny is that your argument against ASS is very weak, and thusly you needed to bring in other concepts—that are totally unrelated to this discussion of ASS—to make your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grovsnus View Post
I believe that anyone who bought a BMW X1 28i/35i/25d and then looks for ways to trade driving fun for fuel economy bought the wrong car. If the ASS of a 28i was what tipped someone over into buying one, more fool them.

When you take your foot off the brake, the car starts up, increases the rpms, engages first gear and then you can start rolling. By that time, I am already halfway across the intersection with a grin on my face, enjoying how the car is so responsive.
You can beat this drum all you want, but I and others in this thread have made it clear that we like ASS, which we can use selectively in certain situations to avoid idling the car for minutes at a time without reason. Used intelligently and judiciously, it doesn't hinder performance in any way at all, and you haven't provided even a decent argument against that being the case.

You say directly that ASS is part of someone looking to "trade driving fun for fuel economy" . . . do you really enjoy idling at stoplights that much? To each their own I suppose.

Even in your scenario (apparently you are always the first at a stoplight and never have cars in front of you), I could still be neck and neck with you while using ASS. This is because I am an attentive driver: I pay attention to other cars around me and the lights for cross traffic at the intersection, and thusly, by the time my light turns green, my car has already been started, and engaged in gear (which, you know, takes less than a second) because i have anticipated the light changing. It's really not too hard, and is something I've long practiced before having ASS.

I find people like you who say "If you wanted to save gas, you shouldn't have bought a so-and-so" hard to comprehend. Does you mean if someone buys a so-and-so, they should want to waste gas? Maybe you should siphon a bit of gas out and spray it into the air every day to prove how much of a hardcore driver you are? That would totally make you more hardcore than me, for sure, no arguments here.

I use ASS because BMW has made it very easy for me to do so, and as I have demonstrated, it doesn't impact the performance of my vehicle at all. I save a few bucks, put a little less pollution in the air, and use a little less of the ol' dino juice, with my main cost being a tiny bit of my attention and a little more engagement with driving.
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      06-15-2014, 03:14 PM   #42
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Scott... my guess is that the same people who deride ASS are also the same people that feel they don't have to contribute to preventing climate change. "So what if I'm idling for several minutes at that stop light, my driving pleasure is more important than anything we can do to improve the environment."
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      06-15-2014, 04:28 PM   #43
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Scott... my guess is that the same people who deride ASS are also the same people that feel they don't have to contribute to preventing climate change. "So what if I'm idling for several minutes at that stop light, my driving pleasure is more important than anything we can do to improve the environment."
Ha, well, of course. But I know better than to take that line here . . . I guess my stubbornness comes from the fact that proper use of ASS doesn't decrease driving pleasure at all, and when they pose it as such a trade-off, that strikes me as pretty bad misinformation. In other words, I'm easily annoyed when it comes to this stuff.
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      06-15-2014, 07:06 PM   #44
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Sometimes I have to idle to run AC and survive 100+ deg heat while my wife hits the store.

My gauge shows gas consumption of .38 gallons per hour.

My math shows savings on a 1 minute stop light and taking the 7 sec break even point is:

$ 0.02 or 2 cents for a minute stop light (assuming my 91 oct gas of $3.65)
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