XBimmers X1   XBimmers X1
  XBimmers X1

Go Back   XBimmers | BMW X1 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-03-2015, 01:20 PM   #23
gtron
powerhouse
gtron's Avatar
United_States
703
Rep
1,628
Posts

Drives: 2014 Porsche 981 CS
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by airshaq20 View Post
To the OP, don't listen to the haters - a lot of these peeps are virtual F1 drivers.


__________________
no signature. except for this one.
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 01:24 PM   #24
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

airshaq20 gtron
Anti-Haters hating the Haters. Pot. Kettle. Black. LOL
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 01:36 PM   #25
PopsnBurbles
Captain
PopsnBurbles's Avatar
United_States
192
Rep
893
Posts

Drives: 135is :) 192/586
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: LA, CA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
I used to like how the tesla sedan looks like but I got tired of it just like I got tired of the current 6 series. They're just too "perfect" but still not the most beautiful. I sat inside a P85D and I thought it was very high quality stuff (the best car I've had the pleasure to daily drive in terms of interior was a 4.0 V8 XF). I've been driven around in a regular P85 before and the torque was nice for daily purposes. I am not quite sure about how it will go WOT.

Now comes the part why I would not get a tesla: it scares me. Everything is too electronic. I know this is just an illusion but the thought that everything is controlled from that screen scares me. Even my 1er's key fob + comfort access + "keyless ignition" scares me when the car can't detect the key! I guess I just love the way my car is = without much features not because "racecar" but because "simple."

EDIT: I say you get one if it sold itself well to you. It seems to have all the stuff you're looking for. It's just like buying awesome shades/glasses. It's hard to find one that fits perfectly and looks amazing.
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 04:56 PM   #26
Chihuahua
Brigadier General
Chihuahua's Avatar
4011
Rep
3,169
Posts

Drives: E30 329iS, E65 Alpina B7
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post

Can you get the Alpina D3 here?
Nope, B7 only.
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 04:59 PM   #27
gtron
powerhouse
gtron's Avatar
United_States
703
Rep
1,628
Posts

Drives: 2014 Porsche 981 CS
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
airshaq20 gtron
Anti-Haters hating the Haters. Pot. Kettle. Black. LOL
i just thought it was funny. if it's true or not, i don't care, it's teh funny.
__________________
no signature. except for this one.
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 05:20 PM   #28
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16943
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Maybe I'm just being stupid, but how's it possible for an engine of any kind to produce torque at 0 RPM?

Or maybe I'm just reading too much into what you're saying.
+1. Yup, electric motors make 100% torque at 0 RPM, but nothing is moving.

To the OP, just to mess you up... the motor in the Tesla spins up to somewhere north of 10,000 RPM.

If you get it, I hope you enjoy the car.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 05:28 PM   #29
SunnyD
Major
SunnyD's Avatar
United_States
452
Rep
1,287
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
To the OP, just to mess you up... the motor in the Tesla spins up to somewhere north of 10,000 RPM.
He doesn't care, as long as he doesn't hear any noise from the engine.

FIA Formula E must make him cream his pants.
__________________
'16 ///M4 GTS
'11.75 ///E90 M3 ZCP | DCT
'06 ///M5 | SMG - Gone
'98 ///M3 | 5MT - Gone
'07 ///M Coupe | 6MT - Gone
Appreciate 0
      03-03-2015, 09:51 PM   #30
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16943
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyD View Post
He doesn't care, as long as he doesn't hear any noise from the engine.

FIA Formula E must make him cream his pants.
Shush! Let's not tell him about how much Ozone a 400 HP electric motor makes...
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 08:17 AM   #31
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3260
Rep
6,299
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
+1. Yup, electric motors make 100% torque at 0 RPM, but nothing is moving.

To the OP, just to mess you up... the motor in the Tesla spins up to somewhere north of 10,000 RPM.

If you get it, I hope you enjoy the car.
I guess I was just confused because torque is a measure of turning force and at 0 RPM, theoretically nothing is rotating right?

I suppose I should look at it this way, you can turn a locked door knob and even though the knob isn't rotating, you're still applying torque to it. Is that a better way of looking at it?
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 11:00 AM   #32
airshaq20
Private First Class
16
Rep
168
Posts

Drives: X5M, E60
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
I guess I was just confused because torque is a measure of turning force and at 0 RPM, theoretically nothing is rotating right?

I suppose I should look at it this way, you can turn a locked door knob and even though the knob isn't rotating, you're still applying torque to it. Is that a better way of looking at it?
You forgot about the transmission which is between the electronic motor and the wheels.

To make you understand about electronic motors, use a light switch and a bulb for example. When its on, its on. When it is switch off, the power is still there, its just not transmitted.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 11:07 AM   #33
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16943
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by airshaq20 View Post
You forgot about the transmission which is between the electronic motor and the wheels.

To make you understand about electronic motors, use a light switch and a bulb for example. When its on, its on. When it is switch off, the power is still there, its just not transmitted.
There is a 1-gear transmission in a Tesla and I don't believe it is a torque multiplier.

What is really meant by 100% torque with an electric motor is the stall torque. The electric motor will stall (stop rotating) at full torque and will hold the torque (until it burns up). However, since the motor is not turning, the car is not moving, which makes the spec irrelevant.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 11:12 AM   #34
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3260
Rep
6,299
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
There is a 1-gear transmission in a Tesla and I don't believe it is a torque multiplier.

What is really meant by 100% torque with an electric motor is the stall torque. The electric motor will stall (stop rotating) at full torque and will hold the torque (until it burns up). However, since the motor is not turning, the car is not moving, which makes the spec irrelevant.
Thanks for the explanation.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 11:22 AM   #35
airshaq20
Private First Class
16
Rep
168
Posts

Drives: X5M, E60
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
There is a 1-gear transmission in a Tesla and I don't believe it is a torque multiplier.

What is really meant by 100% torque with an electric motor is the stall torque. The electric motor will stall (stop rotating) at full torque and will hold the torque (until it burns up). However, since the motor is not turning, the car is not moving, which makes the spec irrelevant.
Transmission is transmission no matter how many gears it has. You're thinking wheel-torque which the Tesla (or any car) obviously will produce 0 wtq when it's stopped.
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 05:47 PM   #36
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16943
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by airshaq20 View Post
Transmission is transmission no matter how many gears it has. You're thinking wheel-torque which the Tesla (or any car) obviously will produce 0 wtq when it's stopped.
No I'm not. I'm thinking of how an electric motor works.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
      03-04-2015, 06:41 PM   #37
MDIVISION
Major
United_States
272
Rep
1,178
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Silicon Valley

iTrader: (1)

Yes, let me switch from the M3 to that Honda Accord look alike thing. riiiight
__________________
2002 E46 M3 Coupe.. SOLD
2011 BMW 1M Coupe SOLD
2013 BMW M3 Coupe SOLD
2014 BMW 335i MPPK SOLD
2015 M3 SOLD
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2015, 08:12 AM   #38
fecurtis
Banned
United_States
3260
Rep
6,299
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arlington, VA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDIVISION View Post
Yes, let me switch from the M3 to that Honda Accord look alike thing. riiiight
You think a Tesla looks like an Accord?????
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2015, 01:08 PM   #39
MDIVISION
Major
United_States
272
Rep
1,178
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Silicon Valley

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
You think a Tesla looks like an Accord?????
A bloated accord. Let's just be honest. That car is far from sexy. It really comes out when the i8 parks next to it.
__________________
2002 E46 M3 Coupe.. SOLD
2011 BMW 1M Coupe SOLD
2013 BMW M3 Coupe SOLD
2014 BMW 335i MPPK SOLD
2015 M3 SOLD
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2015, 02:29 PM   #40
Mavus
Colonel
Mavus's Avatar
2015
Rep
2,659
Posts

Drives: E90 335i, F80 zcp
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDIVISION
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
You think a Tesla looks like an Accord?????
A bloated accord. Let's just be honest. That car is far from sexy. It really comes out when the i8 parks next to it.
come on man P85 is in 7 series class not a toy I8. The shape is based on utility and aero.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2015, 03:01 PM   #41
ShocknAwe
1Addict
ShocknAwe's Avatar
3197
Rep
7,859
Posts

Drives: E82 Mutt, M57 Truck
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
come on man P85 is in 7 series class not a toy I8. The shape is based on utility and aero.
Yeah, manufacturers of supercars make that excuse for ugly designs all the time. Oh wait.
__________________
2010 135i 6MT Jet Black
N54/3 FE82 Mutt | BUILD THREAD | GARAGE SALE
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2015, 06:31 PM   #42
zer0cool
First Lieutenant
104
Rep
300
Posts

Drives: X3M
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

I am not an environmentalist at all, so environmental factors are not among my considerations. Really the decision comes down to driving experience and cost numbers. I probably want to test the Tesla again just to make sure it wasn't a one time psychological thing. I ll wait a little bit before doing that. We ll still have a regular car for long trips, and my daily commute is less than 50 miles, so Tesla range will be good with no issues. Both mine and my wife's company garages have multiple EV chargers so I think for at least a couple years (until EVs become more common if at all), we ll have close to 0 fuel expense on the Tesla.

Basically after the first test drive, the biggest change in perception is that I realized that the gearing system in gasoline cars is inherently inefficient and inferior to that of the EV. No amount of engineering can gap that difference. The instant acceleration in a Tesla at almost all daily driving speeds is simply not possible with any gasoline car due to the need for a multi-gear transmission (the only thing that comes close may be PDK, and only if the engine is powerful enough, and you need to have it in an aggressive mode, like sport or sport+; of course, the issue with sport or sport+ mode for me is... rev is too high). This is the reason why I feel that this may be the future of the automobile.

Of course the biggest weakness of the EV is range and charging speed, which may never be resolvable... The 2nd weakness, particularly with Tesla Model S, is the weight. Which is why it can never be a sports car, or be used on track. However in everyday driving speeds, it handles and drives really well.
Appreciate 0
      03-05-2015, 07:08 PM   #43
Mavus
Colonel
Mavus's Avatar
2015
Rep
2,659
Posts

Drives: E90 335i, F80 zcp
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShocknAwe View Post
Yeah, manufacturers of supercars make that excuse for ugly designs all the time. Oh wait.
what are you talking about!? at least substantiate your comment when you make a dumb uneducated one! Tesla is not a supercar and never claimed to be one. Give credit where credit is due.

Ii is an intermediate tech step towards something great that will change the world, something that Tesla envisioned, if you know who Tesla is!?

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...omparison-test
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2015, 05:15 AM   #44
Efthreeoh
General
United_States
16943
Rep
18,578
Posts

Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0cool View Post
I am not an environmentalist at all, so environmental factors are not among my considerations. Really the decision comes down to driving experience and cost numbers. I probably want to test the Tesla again just to make sure it wasn't a one time psychological thing. I ll wait a little bit before doing that. We ll still have a regular car for long trips, and my daily commute is less than 50 miles, so Tesla range will be good with no issues. Both mine and my wife's company garages have multiple EV chargers so I think for at least a couple years (until EVs become more common if at all), we ll have close to 0 fuel expense on the Tesla.

Basically after the first test drive, the biggest change in perception is that I realized that the gearing system in gasoline cars is inherently inefficient and inferior to that of the EV. No amount of engineering can gap that difference. The instant acceleration in a Tesla at almost all daily driving speeds is simply not possible with any gasoline car due to the need for a multi-gear transmission (the only thing that comes close may be PDK, and only if the engine is powerful enough, and you need to have it in an aggressive mode, like sport or sport+; of course, the issue with sport or sport+ mode for me is... rev is too high). This is the reason why I feel that this may be the future of the automobile.

Of course the biggest weakness of the EV is range and charging speed, which may never be resolvable... The 2nd weakness, particularly with Tesla Model S, is the weight. Which is why it can never be a sports car, or be used on track. However in everyday driving speeds, it handles and drives really well.
I have a 165-mile daily commute. I looked at the Tesla S extensively to a) reduce my fuel costs - tied into total cost of ownership, and b) to get off the gasoline grid where the price of the commodity constantly, rapidly, and with great dynamic rage, fluctuates. The price of electricity is very constant (well maybe until O'bama fucks it up - different thread...). I found that a Tesla S has high cost of ownership simply due to the price of the car. You save a lot on fuel cost but pay a lot up front for the vehicle. I ran the numbers, and for a 200,000-mile ownership life, the Tesla was about $20K more to operate than my E90; and that assumed a 200,000-mile battery life span for the Tesla (hummm...). Now, compare a Tesla S to more of its class stablemates like the MB S-class, BMW 7-series, etc. and the affordability equation reverses, but then it is safe to say the Tesla does not bring the level of luxury to the table that those cars do. For my commute, I'm not in the earning class that can justify using a 7-series for a daily 165-mile commute.

I hoping the Tesla 3 materializes, that may be the winning ticket for the company.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:55 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST