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      11-06-2012, 10:44 AM   #1
rory breaker
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What's stopping me from pulling the trigger...

Wifey loves the X1 - of all the cars we've driven (XC60R, Q5, Kia Sorento, Hyundai Tuscon & Santa Fe, WRX, X3, X6M, Evoque) she likes the X1 28i the best.

What's stopping me:

- The car doesn't feel "new" to me....it's missing so many things I would expect on a $45k car - electronic parking brake, power open/close trunk, etc. I feel like we may as well buy a 2009 X3 or something.

- The look of the car without the M package isnt anything special to me. Kinda rental car-ish. With the M package, she can't get Terra interior or matte wood trim (her 2 favorite aspects of the car) so no go there.

- The 35i would be a no brainer if it had the 8spd transmission. There is a noticeable difference in shift speed/accuracy with the 8spd vs the 6spd. Again, feels weird to buy a 2013 car with 2008 technology. 28i is great, but sounds puny and lacks the grunt of the 35...she likes the 28 because of the quick throttle response and better mpg. I prefer the power of the 35i...when I buy a car I want it to throw me back in my seat (hence why I was trying to sell her on the X6M) and the 35i does that better than the 28i.

Looking for feedback from those who agree, or think Im crazy. The car is hers not mine, so one thing I need to do is keep that in mind versus trying to find the perfect car for "us"...it's her car. At the same time I hate dropping $50k on something that doesn't blow both of us away. If it takes a bit more cash to find that car, I want to find it versus settling, but honestly I dont think it's out there. I want to buy this car, these things just keep holding me back.

Thoughts?
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      11-06-2012, 11:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
Wifey loves the X1 - of all the cars we've driven (XC60R, Q5, Kia Sorento, Hyundai Tuscon & Santa Fe, WRX, X3, X6M, Evoque) she likes the X1 28i the best.

What's stopping me:

- The car doesn't feel "new" to me....it's missing so many things I would expect on a $45k car - electronic parking brake, power open/close trunk, etc. I feel like we may as well buy a 2009 X3 or something.

- The look of the car without the M package isnt anything special to me. Kinda rental car-ish. With the M package, she can't get Terra interior or matte wood trim (her 2 favorite aspects of the car) so no go there.

- The 35i would be a no brainer if it had the 8spd transmission. There is a noticeable difference in shift speed/accuracy with the 8spd vs the 6spd. Again, feels weird to buy a 2013 car with 2008 technology. 28i is great, but sounds puny and lacks the grunt of the 35...she likes the 28 because of the quick throttle response and better mpg. I prefer the power of the 35i...when I buy a car I want it to throw me back in my seat (hence why I was trying to sell her on the X6M) and the 35i does that better than the 28i.

Looking for feedback from those who agree, or think Im crazy. The car is hers not mine, so one thing I need to do is keep that in mind versus trying to find the perfect car for "us"...it's her car. At the same time I hate dropping $50k on something that doesn't blow both of us away. If it takes a bit more cash to find that car, I want to find it versus settling, but honestly I dont think it's out there. I want to buy this car, these things just keep holding me back.

Thoughts?
I do agree on the power open/close trunk!
I had the x6 35i and love my x1 wayyyyy better!
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      11-06-2012, 12:25 PM   #3
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It's too bad the X1 is near it's end of life, and only has 2 years for the US market. The X1 seems to have been a bit of an experiment (I think) in the new small SUV category. The MY2015 X1's will be based on the Mini Countryman chasis too, whereas the X1 is currently based on the 3 series touring wagon, a nice chasis IMO and bigger than the countryman. There's been talk about parts on the X1 and it's a melting pot of everything, 1 series, 3 series, X3, X5... There are some unique part #'s to the X1 but not a whole lot. In the last couple years I think just about all models of BMW got advances except the X1. BMW still seems a little confused about what to do in this category and just let it slow cook while the engineers focused on the other models.

My guess is the next X1 still might not have options like an X3 or 3 series but still be a low priced small SUV to attract people to the brand. The cost placement of the X1, considering it's based on the 3 series touring wagon doesn't seem to give much profit for BMW either. I know the 1 series didn't go as they expected (Better than they thought) and possibly only put the X1 in the US market at all just to see what the feedback of it is so they can better situate the MY2015. But what you actually get for an X1 isn't bad, it's actually a nice performing small SUV that doesn't feel like an SUV which is hard to rare.

I will point out that one care you didn't list, the ex35 has all the bells and whistles you seem to want, and power, but you lose some of the BMW performance feel but you wife probably wouldn't notice.

I think the length of time you keep the car is also important, I'm not sure the % of those leasing it will be nearly as high as other BMW's. It seems many X1 owners are in it for the long term because the car fits a very small nitch market of drivers and there aren't a lot of other performance small SUV's at all, let alone in the very far edge of the luxury market. Nothing from Merc, Audi (Q3 not avaiable in the US, all-road though is kind of close but different), Q5=X3 category. Nothingn from Volks, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Acura, Lexus, etc (either 6"+ taller or very underpowered). I think the ex35 is the only thing I'd consider close to the X1's category.

People have also noted the X1's interior is not as luxuries as it could have been. Maybe cost, maybe lack of development time, who knows. BMW has been trying to widen it's market and is having some growing pains doing it.
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      11-06-2012, 12:42 PM   #4
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I know I looked all over at every type of SUV or wasgon out there, as I have a very specific need related to the trunk size. I am coming from an 08 VW Touareg, and the X1 seemed to be a perfect fit for me. But I can see how people would just as easily upgrade to something else like a Touareg/Q5/Cayenne (all the same platform) or a X3.

I am also a very young buyer, and would not have been as attracted if it were priced higher like the Volvo XC60 is.

Rory, in response to your post finally: My opinion is that for all practical reasons, the 28 engine is better and the 35 is just a bit too much. My driving is mostly suburban, as I am guessing yours is so I think the 28 fits in better there. I will also miss some of those features, but driving my X1 will definitely make up for the missing parts, and is what I am buying the car for right?
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      11-06-2012, 12:48 PM   #5
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Comfort Acces on X1 not an option? I heard that you can open it by swaying your leg when your behind the trunk.
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      11-06-2012, 12:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jossen View Post
Comfort Acces on X1 not an option? I heard that you can open it by swaying your leg when your behind the trunk.
I have the Comfort Access package on my X1 (haven't taken delivery yet) and have never heard of this or seen this advertised or documented. At least on the US version I don't think this is true.
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      11-06-2012, 01:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Dandaman184 View Post
I have the Comfort Access package on my X1 (haven't taken delivery yet) and have never heard of this or seen this advertised or documented. At least on the US version I don't think this is true.
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ss_system.html

I saw this picture in the X1 catalogue aswell(but in Belgium then)

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      11-06-2012, 01:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandaman184 View Post
I know I looked all over at every type of SUV or wasgon out there, as I have a very specific need related to the trunk size. I am coming from an 08 VW Touareg, and the X1 seemed to be a perfect fit for me. But I can see how people would just as easily upgrade to something else like a Touareg/Q5/Cayenne (all the same platform) or a X3.
I believe the Q7 is comparable to the Touareg? The Q5 is the same category as the Tiguan (Which my wife has and it's too wobbly for me as it's 6" higher than the X1).

I could also go into the differences between the N55 and N20 engines but the short is the N20 is the N55 with 2 less cylinders and ASS. N20 is 16psi and N55 is 10psi of boost so the N20 is being pushed pretty close to its max so that might effect life (or not, we don't know)

For transmissions, ZF HP6 vs HP8 transmissions but there isn't a whole lot of difference other than start/stop on the i4/8HP (Talked about elsewhere). The 6HP is reported to downshift in 80ms and the 8HP in 100ms. The 6HP can shift in "as little as" 200ms and the 8HP is 200ms but the 8HP as a perk that it can shift from 8 to 2nd in one movement but they're both pretty good. The 8HP has closer 1st and 2nd gear ratios that help acceleration when around there but it actually hurts the 0-60 times as it requires 3 gear changes when the 6HP can do it in 2 -- I think the 8HP has to shift to third around 54mph and the 6HP is in the 60's MPH range).

I seemed to have a different experience in test driving in that the 8 speed seemed to hesitated picking what gear it wanted to be in based on my driving character yet the 35 seemed ready and had the power to just pull when desired. I'm also keeping the car long term so I decided to go with the older and more proven 6 speed. The gas mileage on the 28 seems to be lower than expected, making the difference about 3-4mpg different. I think the two extra gears didn't really provide real world MPG savings engineering said it should... Originally it was 36hwy and people are seeing 27-31mpg. Someone also said they got 35mpg on the highway in the 35 so YMMV.
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      11-06-2012, 02:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jossen View Post
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...ss_system.html

I saw this picture in the X1 catalogue aswell(but in Belgium then)
I have comfort on mine but never tried to do the leg thing. I guess ill have to go try it and if it does not work ill look like a fool ... LOL
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      11-06-2012, 02:15 PM   #10
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I have comfort on mine but never tried to do the leg thing. I guess ill have to go try it and if it does not work ill look like a fool ... LOL
I think it only unlocks it. You need the electronic lift gate which I don't think is offered on the X1.
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      11-06-2012, 02:32 PM   #11
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The leg thing is not on the X1 in the US. It is on the new 3 series. It was one of the new gizmos I wished I could have on the X1 along with the cameras that go on the mirrors to allow you to see better on blind corners.
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      11-06-2012, 02:33 PM   #12
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My personal take on your three points, from my own, personal perspective about my wife's car.
  1. If you want gadgets, and a newer chassis, the X3 will indeed be a better fit. It is most clearly an SUV and feels heavier and more ponderous than the X1 though, still fun, and still sportier than the competition, but not the car like feel of the X1. The X1 has been available in the ROW for years now, and it is an "e" chassis car, an E84, not the newer "f" chassis line, like the F25 X3 or the F30 3 series.
  2. This one could be touchy, as it's personal opinion. I like the M Sport on lighter colors, and the Sport or X Line on darker colors. We have a midnight blue with terra X Line and it works perfectly. I wouldn't prefer the M Sport body or painted lowers for this car, but understand why folks like it too.
  3. Again, personal opinion, but for my preference, being a "manual only" sort of guy, I dislike the feel of the newer ZF 8s transmissions. They're always shifting and it's really easy to catch it out of the power band, they have an immediate need to get to the highest gear possible. I feel more inclined to monkey with the paddles with the many cars I've driven with the 8s, and that sort of defeats my personal goal of what an automatic should be about. We had the 6s in my wife's previous 135i and it's a great transmission and works great with the N54 and N55. Honestly, one of the things that made it easy for us to choose the E84 X1 over the F30 335i or an F31 328i was the 6s in place of the 8s and the fact that there's no Auto Start Stop to deal with too.
To me, the X1 is about the driving experience, not the gadgets. If you'd like a newer, plusher design, an X3 28i might be worth driving. If you want a sportier, more spartan car, the X1 probably fits the bill. A good friend of mine has an E91 3er wagon that's a great car, but in the US, they were all 328i models, same as the new F31 wagon. The E84 is one of the few ways to get a hatchback with the N55 in the US and it works great for us.
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      11-06-2012, 02:57 PM   #13
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To get back to the OP's questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
- The car doesn't feel "new" to me....it's missing so many things I would expect on a $45k car - electronic parking brake, power open/close trunk, etc. I feel like we may as well buy a 2009 X3 or something.
This is certainly true, both because as noted it is constructed out of the BMW parts bin and because it is the cheapest BMW you can buy in the US. Since it is in the middle of a model run even though it is new in the US it was never going to have the cutting edge technology on it.

The trade off is that is is cheaper. Where you come down on the relatively merits of cheapness vs. bleeding edge tech strongly impacts your view of the car. For me, coming from a low tech 2001 Honda feel like I'm getting a lot of tech for my money. If you are already used to the level of tech on the X1 you might question the wisdom of spending the money on a new car that isn't an advance over what you already have.

I also could have had a car with more stuff on it for the same price but for me none of those vehicles had the driving dynamics of the X1. I did not want to spend what a new 3 series would cost if I put all the nifty stuff on it. I was able to well equip my 28i and negotiate a price that gets me out the door for less than a stripped 328i. For me the trade-off in dollars was well worth it. But I can see how others will see that bargain differently.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
- The look of the car without the M package isnt anything special to me. Kinda rental car-ish. With the M package, she can't get Terra interior or matte wood trim (her 2 favorite aspects of the car) so no go there.
This is a matter of taste. I like the car because it doesn't look like everything else. There were well regarded vehicles I never bothered to look into because I did not like the way they looked. If it will bug you every day to look at the car that it a strong argument to keep looking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
- The 35i would be a no brainer if it had the 8spd transmission. There is a noticeable difference in shift speed/accuracy with the 8spd vs the 6spd. Again, feels weird to buy a 2013 car with 2008 technology. 28i is great, but sounds puny and lacks the grunt of the 35...she likes the 28 because of the quick throttle response and better mpg. I prefer the power of the 35i...when I buy a car I want it to throw me back in my seat (hence why I was trying to sell her on the X6M) and the 35i does that better than the 28i.
The 28i vs. 35i debate has been going on since the X1 showed up here in August. I bought a 28i because of the price difference. For the driving I will be doing the extra power of the 35i is not very relevant. I also strongly wanted the RWD platform. That doesn't matter if you are going with xDrive.

I suspect in most cases the 28i is all the engine you need. But there is certainly that appeal of having 300HP at your disposal plus the fact that the 35i is likely to only be offered for a couple of years. I imagine when the platform change comes in 2015 they will drop it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rory breaker View Post
Looking for feedback from those who agree, or think Im crazy. The car is hers not mine, so one thing I need to do is keep that in mind versus trying to find the perfect car for "us"...it's her car. At the same time I hate dropping $50k on something that doesn't blow both of us away. If it takes a bit more cash to find that car, I want to find it versus settling, but honestly I dont think it's out there. I want to buy this car, these things just keep holding me back.
As you say if the car is for your wife then she should get the final say. If you want to veto the X1 you should have a good alternative or two to suggest.

If you can wait a bit you might want to see if the new 3 series wagon appeals when it comes out in the spring. It will have all the new stuff on it but it will probably be another $8K-$10K more than the X1. It also is a pure wagon not an SUV though it will be offered with xDrive. The Mercedes GLK just got a refresh but it is not the driver's car that BMW is.

If it makes you feel any better I ordered my car and spent the intervening two months making sure I hadn't missed something better for the money. I haven't found anything better than plan on taking delivery of my X1 this weekend, provided the Gods of the VDC look favorably on me.
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      11-06-2012, 03:01 PM   #14
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What made me pulled the trigger...

- M Sport Package, a performance car, hydraulic steering
- It's a wagon (I dislike wagon) but disguising as a SUV, so cool
- 8sp AT and xDrive
- The trunk is low enough for easy loading and unloading, and for my dog to jump in
- Chassis is high enough for winter driving on snow
- It's turbo diesel, and it can do 40+mpg (gasoline is so expensive here in the UK)

Maybe you can wait until the diesel comes over to NA next year.

BTW, who uses the parking brake anyway , just press the Engine Stop button with the 8AT gearbox.

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      11-06-2012, 03:14 PM   #15
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The M-sport package does look good but the X-line is great too IMO. Dark blue or gray, xenons, satin silver roof rails and X-line is hot. Add the terra interior with matte wood and I'd be sold. My wife wanted differently but that was my top choice.
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      11-06-2012, 03:23 PM   #16
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Have you given thought to the Mazda CX-5?

Driving feel is supposed to be best in class, design looks pretty nice, and the base model is available with a 6spd manual. One step above the base model comes with nice tech such as lane departure warning and rear backup camera. MPG is great, but power is lacking.
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      11-06-2012, 03:54 PM   #17
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Power is more than lacking, it doesn't exist. The CX-5 could be killer if it had 80 more ponies. The size is great, it looks fantastic, it drives well, but 0-60 is 9.7s (http://www.edmunds.com/mazda/cx-5/2013/road-test2.html)

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      11-06-2012, 04:24 PM   #18
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Thanks for all the responses folks, giving me some really good feedback. A few comments:

- no go on the CX5 - not a Mazda fan and not enough power. No go on the EX35, she just doesn't dig it.

- color/config - her exact config is just like yours Transfer - xline, midnight blue, terra, matte wood, loaded.

- Tirpitz - great way to simplify. I do feel like if we bought the car I'd be excited/happy....but thinking about what's next, so ultimately not satisfied. She drives cars to the ground, but in a year or two I'll want something more in line with my expectations as I'd like to drive it too. Im only getting older so the AC seats, power trunk, etc will only appeal more to me as time goes by. Thats my concern, that ultimately I won't be happy and want to swap out her car in a year or two with her kicking & screaming. She has a Jetta now that she's driven for 5yrs+ and it just feels old, rattly, stiff, etc...I fear the X1 is going to feel the same way to me in 2 years....outdated look and feel.

- RedBread - you are right. The X3 definitely feels more like an SUV, but it feels like you're getting way more car for another $10k in terms of technology, quality, etc. Thats what she likes about the X1 so much is the driving experience - it's fun, zippy, has room but feels small, etc.

- edx1 - thx for the tranny info - Im a big paddle shift guy and its so important to feel an instant shift when you press that paddle. If there is lag, it ruins the whole driving experience for me. I have yet to drive a 35i with paddles, curious if anyone has any input here on quickness of shifts via paddle 8sp vs 6sp.

- dandaman - with regards to practicality, the 28i is perfect. With regards to putting a smile on my face, I'd like to mod that 35i a bit, make some good power, and have a big smile as I jam onto the highway. Thats the tough call.
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      11-06-2012, 05:07 PM   #19
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So she didn't like the Q5? The 3.0T Q5 would be a great option for you. It sounds like you want a lot of power if you're considering modding the 35i. Is this your car or your wife's? Maybe the CTS-V wagon??
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      11-06-2012, 05:15 PM   #20
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It sounds like a 28i would be fine, since your wife seems to like it.

To provide another data point, we chose the 35i for the extra power. The 6 speed is not an issue. In fact, I can easily tolerate the difference in paddle shifting between my 135i DCT and the X1 6sp, which is much more significant than the 6ps to 8pd difference.
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      11-06-2012, 06:33 PM   #21
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OP: You did drive the X1 35i? For me, right now I'd either go all in on a 35i or all out on a Crosstrek- we have 3 so this would be my AWD snow/kayak handler.
Q5 3.0T?
Q5 TDI is going to be sweet.
4 cylinder diesels from BMW and Mazda are said to be here by next model yr- have your power(mostly) and save fuel too.

My reasons against the slightly (when like equipped) cheaper, slightly (real world) more fuel efficient 28i are it still breaches 40k for me and for 40+k, I want more. Be it features/tech, motor/muscle, or space/practicality I want more for 40. When you hit the gas in these two cars 50+ you know instantly which one sounds, feels, goes, more. The 28i is perfectly adequate willing to run when (forcefully) asked like a still fast yet reluctant old horse it goes fine but doesn't seem like it wants you to nor does it sound great doing it. The 35i is like a tasmanian devil nagging at you to feed it and it just seems like it has an effortless if not truly endless reserve of juice. Yet, despite this sort of schizo character its also very progressive and refined.
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      11-06-2012, 07:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edx1 View Post
It's too bad the X1 is near it's end of life, and only has 2 years for the US market. The X1 seems to have been a bit of an experiment (I think) in the new small SUV category. The MY2015 X1's will be based on the Mini Countryman chasis too, whereas the X1 is currently based on the 3 series touring wagon, a nice chasis IMO and bigger than the countryman. There's been talk about parts on the X1 and it's a melting pot of everything, 1 series, 3 series, X3, X5... There are some unique part #'s to the X1 but not a whole lot. In the last couple years I think just about all models of BMW got advances except the X1. BMW still seems a little confused about what to do in this category and just let it slow cook while the engineers focused on the other models.

My guess is the next X1 still might not have options like an X3 or 3 series but still be a low priced small SUV to attract people to the brand. The cost placement of the X1, considering it's based on the 3 series touring wagon doesn't seem to give much profit for BMW either. I know the 1 series didn't go as they expected (Better than they thought) and possibly only put the X1 in the US market at all just to see what the feedback of it is so they can better situate the MY2015. But what you actually get for an X1 isn't bad, it's actually a nice performing small SUV that doesn't feel like an SUV which is hard to rare.

I will point out that one care you didn't list, the ex35 has all the bells and whistles you seem to want, and power, but you lose some of the BMW performance feel but you wife probably wouldn't notice.

I think the length of time you keep the car is also important, I'm not sure the % of those leasing it will be nearly as high as other BMW's. It seems many X1 owners are in it for the long term because the car fits a very small nitch market of drivers and there aren't a lot of other performance small SUV's at all, let alone in the very far edge of the luxury market. Nothing from Merc, Audi (Q3 not avaiable in the US, all-road though is kind of close but different), Q5=X3 category. Nothingn from Volks, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Acura, Lexus, etc (either 6"+ taller or very underpowered). I think the ex35 is the only thing I'd consider close to the X1's category.

People have also noted the X1's interior is not as luxuries as it could have been. Maybe cost, maybe lack of development time, who knows. BMW has been trying to widen it's market and is having some growing pains doing it.
X1 doesn't have two years we will have at least 2013, 2014, and 2015 model years. I actually believe it will run to 2016 as BMW's run 7 years which would give us 2016. I believe it switches to front wheel drive in Calendar year 2016.
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1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8,2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0,
2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive,
2014 M235 manual
Lucky13 is offline   United_States
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