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View Poll Results: Which version?
xDrive28i 12 46.15%
xDrive35i 14 53.85%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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      10-14-2012, 04:18 PM   #23
popopine
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Here are a few thoughts on the 28i

So the letherette is a problem only if you get the beige because the floor compartments are a light color too - dirty proposition. Or you can get black - which i always felt was cave like.

If you choose leather, you get the black foot wells so no problem with the dirty floor. Leather price is also included in the premium package. Then of course you can get your lighting package - which i believe is a must anyway.

The lighting package (xenons) make night driving much, much safer and more fun. It's worth the money and you will never go back to regular lights again.

Mirror dim is great for highway driving at night. Again, once you have it, you'll never want regular mirrors again.

The 28i is a better choice imo because it has a little more versatility in that you can drive it like a granny and get huge gas milage savings or you can slip it into sport a push the hell out of it. The option is yours.
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      10-14-2012, 06:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edx1 View Post
I do have some questions too that I'm less clear on things after talking to the CA.

The CA said he'd never get leatherette. I mentioned kids, dog, keeping the car for 10+ years and he said the leather on the X1 was harder than say a Z4 and would hold up better?

He also said if the X1 had the cold weather it also has heated sideview mirrors but I can't find this anywhere?

He said the sideview mirrors are not dimming ones?

And does the xDrive28i have the DS (Drive Sport) mode?
The Xenons are REALLY worth the extra cost.

The leather in the X1 is definitely a more firm and durable leather.

The cold weather package is a separate package, and the auto-dimming sideview mirrors are also heated.

It sounds like the 28i is the vehicle for you. For the 28i, the premium package also get you the moonroof and lumbar support which are nice, too.
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      10-17-2012, 10:24 PM   #25
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Sorry, I have an off-topic question to ask, but I can't create a thread by myself yet.
My question is I have a 2012 BMW x1 base model with no premium package thus it doesn't have eagle eyes or xenon lights. I was wondering if it is possible to do it yourself to change the headlight to xenon headlight and have eagle eyes.
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      10-17-2012, 11:20 PM   #26
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As far as I can tell, 3 series have aftermarket xenon kits but they will not do adaptive or level which means all the drivers you pass will hate you since your xenon will not stay facing downwards toward the road, and there are no kits yet for the X1.

I'd like to get conformation if anyone knows, but I believe the wiring harness needed to do xenon and it's features require the premium package for all the adaptive and leveling work but this is a guess.

I've been searching for hours and hours looking for a good post-purchase way to do xenon lights on an x1 or 3 series and basically there is no good way to do them. I'd pay $2k for an aftermarket that did leveling, (adaptive would be nice but not mandatory for me) and there isn't a way. There are $300 kits for the 3 series but again, they don't self level. Self leveling requires sensors throughout the car from what I've read so it's much more than just replacing the entire headlight assembly.
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      10-18-2012, 02:56 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill1963 View Post
Sorry, I have an off-topic question to ask, but I can't create a thread by myself yet.
My question is I have a 2012 BMW x1 base model with no premium package thus it doesn't have eagle eyes or xenon lights. I was wondering if it is possible to do it yourself to change the headlight to xenon headlight and have eagle eyes.
BMW High Performance Light Bulb part # 63212239799 is another option.
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      10-18-2012, 07:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by edx1 View Post
As far as I can tell, 3 series have aftermarket xenon kits but they will not do adaptive or level which means all the drivers you pass will hate you since your xenon will not stay facing downwards toward the road, and there are no kits yet for the X1.

I'd like to get conformation if anyone knows, but I believe the wiring harness needed to do xenon and it's features require the premium package for all the adaptive and leveling work but this is a guess.

I've been searching for hours and hours looking for a good post-purchase way to do xenon lights on an x1 or 3 series and basically there is no good way to do them. I'd pay $2k for an aftermarket that did leveling, (adaptive would be nice but not mandatory for me) and there isn't a way. There are $300 kits for the 3 series but again, they don't self level. Self leveling requires sensors throughout the car from what I've read so it's much more than just replacing the entire headlight assembly.

Discussing this topic here:

http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=757231
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      10-18-2012, 08:33 PM   #29
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I've had the N20 (4-cyl) 8-spd X1 for almost 6 months now, going from the previous gen 535. I'd say unless you're a motor enthusiast, the N20 is the obvious choice for now, and for the future.

Around the world we all can see how the public opinion and new laws are causing the car manufacturers to down-size the car engines, use more light-weight materials, etc. This fact will affect resale value, insurance costs, and service/repairs more and more in the future. Also having kids I would rather be able to get a pair of new sneakers for them every once in a while, rather than pay extra for a bigger engine.

Despite the lacking two cylinders, in compare to other same-sized sports utility cars, the N20 X1 is still 20-30% faster and definitely more fun and engaging to drive. (Used to have 2009 CR-V 2.4 5-AT) Still at a very decent fuel consumption level.

The N55 (6-cyl) is like the N20 a twin-scroll turbocharged engine, possible to draw far more costly repairs compared to panoramic sunroof and electric adjusted seats. Also remember the N55 X1 is exclusive US which means 'less install base' when troubleshooting, spare parts, etc.

With leather it will still be leather and look and feel all the better as years go, provided taken care of properly. I use leather cleaner and leather wax every 4 to 6 months and in all my cars the seats have felt like new even after several years of everyday use.

Good luck!
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      10-18-2012, 09:59 PM   #30
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Gotta say that I really like the auto high beam feature. I live in a rural area so its really helpful having that along with the bright hid lights. It was definitely worth the extra cost for me.
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      10-18-2012, 10:16 PM   #31
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If resale value and fuel economy are the main points, I am not sure the X1 is the best choice. A 328i (and the more expensive 528i) would likely be a better choice for resale value, and with slightly better fuel economy than the X1 28i.

The X1 is marketed as a sports activity vehicle, and that's what many buyers will be looking for, even if you can consider it a crossover or large hatchback and use it for those purposes.

As for fuel economy of the 28i vs 35i, again, it depends on your conditions. If you live in hilly terrain and regularly drive with a heavy load, the six is likely going to use less fuel, because it won't have to work as hard. But for going to and from work and light shopping in relatively flat terrain, the four will of course be more economical. And a Leaf even better.

Let people buy the car they want - they will generally have their reasons, which might not match yours.
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      10-18-2012, 11:52 PM   #32
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Thanks for all your comments tonight. Good points and it's nice to hear your experiences.

Tonight I was popping around google and youtube. 3 things have been on my mind. First was that the 3 series has the n20 and n55 both paired with the 8 speed transmission. Second is that people on the 3 series boards are hinting the n20 has more hp potential than the n55. Third is that the 8 speed transmission might not have all the bugs worked out.

First the 2013 3 series 328i xdrive and 335i xdrive both have the same engine options as the X1 but both are matched with the same 8 speed trans as the xDrive28i X1. I thought those facts might give a little insight into how much of a difference really there is between the two engines vs the trans. Online reviews ranged anywhere for 0-60 from about 4.7-5.2 for the n55 and 5.3-6.1 for the n20 but it looks like about a half second difference most of the time, pretty close IMO between the two engines. It also means the 8 speed transmission is worth, very roughly, a half second or less if we consider there's a 1 second diff between the two engines with different transmissions on the X1.

As for the 8 speed transmission quality, there are some threads around the internet that talk about the 8 speed trans having a possible hesitation quirk at low rpm (or just after the gas is applied). Some people have gone as far as using test equipment to prove/show there is a problem. Lots of things have been ruled out (traction control and so on) but it makes me wonder if the 8 doesn't have all the bugs or design issues worked out. There are several posts of 8 speed transmissions self destructing and I looked for threads with problems with the 6 speed and I couldn't find (so far?) find complaints -- google "bmw 8 speed transmission hesitation" to find a few of the threads. It makes me wonder if the 'cheaper' route could be the n55/6trans to hopefully avoid costly trans problems 10-15 years down the road. The ZF 8HP transmission is used on a dozen BMW models and a dozen other manufacturers as well, so I wonder what's going on and I'm only posting to say that I'm trying to dive deeper to be more informed.

Concerning the n20 vs n55 themselves, I've never modded a car and don't have plans to start but they are saying for about $375 you can get over 300hp out of the n20 which in my mind makes me think the n20 is the real winner between the two since the mpg might still be better on the n20 with that mod than just a stock n55. Of course life, reliability and other aspects go out the window any time you do any tweaking. It's interesting at least and makes me wonder if it can be done with the 3 series, if the X1 would be the same but I don't think that possibility is worth enteraining unless it's been fully proven and no downsides which could easily never happen. But if it is true, the only difference for my two options is for $25 more I'd have xDrive35i badges and servo stearing if the n20 was modified to 300hp like the n55 but with that $25 I'd not have the premium package.

As you can imagine I'd like to dig some more and see if the 8spd really does have potential problems. If not I think the xDrive28i is the way probably the better way to go for me.

Oh, one other thing that I'm seeing on the 3 series boards, are there are a number of people who got the 328i and are regretting not going for the bigger 335 n55 motor. There's an interesting thread to read (trolling) about the 3 series being boat like. People sure can let their worsts out, wow.

Anyway, just my ramblings and thoughts for the night. Thanks again for your thoughts too.
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      10-19-2012, 09:52 AM   #33
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ZF makes a good transmission. While the 8 speed is relatively new (2010 vs 2006) and different than the 6 speed, I wouldn't expect there to be any issues regarding reliability. The hesitation issues described will most likely be corrected with a software update to the transmission ECU if necessary.

I wouldn't let that be the only thing holding you back from getting the 28i.
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      10-19-2012, 10:54 AM   #34
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I read up on the n20 engine modification. Only thing I needed to see was it voids the warranty and that's enough to keep me away. It's too bad BMW service can't perform something that appears to be safe and keep the car in warranty, there are a number of other car manufacturers who will install engine upgrades and you keep your warranty. I can understand why BMW might hold extra HP in the N20 for the Z4 or other sportier models or heavier weight cars but it's too bad for 3 series and X1 owners.

Bill, I think you are right, but a part of me still wonders if the hesitation is a software fix to avoid a bigger problem with something going on in the transmission. I at first wondered if it was an engine flaw workaround but since some people have also had problems with the n55 I assume we can rule the engines out. I'll have to see if other manufacturers also are reporting similar problems with that transmission.

Now that fall is here and I'm stuck inside, I'll keep digging just for curiosity and to keep me busy at night.
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      10-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #35
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Just thought I'd give an update of my current state.

The short summary is I think it's 50/50 and I'll baiscally be happy with either one, but they're so close on pro's and con's and also fairly different that it's tough to make a choice for which trim to go with for the next 10-15 years.

So here's the recap.

Back in September I test drove the xDrive28i. I was impressed with performance and set it w/cold weather, paddles and sunroof options. I then hopped online and did some reading and was still fine. Then I had an near incident that was out of my control but I wondered if xenon would have widened the safety gap. I used the online configurator and realized it was $400 difference between the 28 w/prem, cold and paddles and the 35 w/cold and paddles. Now open the floodgates of information as I began to disect each one to find the best fit for myself.

Since I had not driven the 35 I test drove it just over a week ago. I was more impressed. They didn't have a 28 to compare side by side and were closing early on a Saturday so they were going to call me when they got a 28 in stock and I would come by at night to see both and check out the xenons for myself.

Last night I went and drove the 28 with xenons first. I played around with the power seats a bit and I admit they can get that 100% 'perfect' feeling. I do come from a manual seat background so I wouldn't miss it since I've never had it but I wouldn't mind it if I had it either. The dealership does not have any non-powered seats I could test out, so here is my first question for those who have the experience.

How good do non-powered seats feel compared to powered? Is it hard to find a 95% perfect seating position with manual or is there such a gap in adjustments between the two that manual seats should never be bought?

First off in the 28 (Which was actually had the M package) I thought it somehow felt different than the 35 I drove the week before. I'm not sure what it was, but it didn't feel as good as the 35 I tested a weeke before (and not to spoil what I'll say later, but when I got in the 35 and was going 5mph it was like being home). Even sitting still or going 5mph it didn't seem right. Maybe the seat was too far back but I thought it was setup the same as the 35. Maybe it was the thicker M wheel, maybe the specific seat position, but just sitting in it I felt less confident/nimble than the 35. Maybe it's the lack of servo steering but the feeling was more that the car was more boxy/less or nimble/ready in relation to vehicles around it, but it was more than just handling, I was more aware of it and had to focus more on cars nearby to not sideswipe and so on (Not that I would have but my mind went there more easily) -- maybe it was just all in my head, or that it was the first test drive of the night -- but it seemed like something was off. Not sure it was the side bolsters in that M line that threw me off but I just can't put my finger on what was off. Strange... I wouldn't think an engines response could be the reason but maybe it can?

When driving the 28 there were 3 times when I stepped on the pedal I didn't like what happened. Once I noticed the 'hesitation' where it accelerates nicely, then seamed to pause for a fragment of a second, then proceede. My thought is that the hesitation is fairly minor, and wouldn't keep me from that transmission but it would be nice if the pause weren't there. I did however have two instances where going about 20mph and then pressed on the gas where I did not like what happened. Once at 20mph I pressed the pedal to the floor and it took about 3/4ths of a second to react before the car began to accelerate. This is an important test to me because if you were to suddenly see a problem and need to move, you want the power immediately with no pause. The second time I tried this I was going about 20mph as well and lifted my foot entirely off the gas pedal for two seconds and then floored it (In the sitatuion where you think you can just coast but then you realize you need to move quick and floor it). It took well over a second, easily 1.3-1.7 seconds before the car engine began to accelerate. I was completely shocked, I've never had any car pause this long or even half as long, it was really, really strange. It wasn't turbo lag either. My guess is that the transmission took its sweet time in deciding what gear to pick, maybe I was on the edge of two gears and it was going to say go into third, switched to third, then the car had slowed down .01mph and it decided, oops, no second. I've never had any car (turbo or not and I've driven several with turbo's too) that had as big of a pause when the pedal was floored as this particular time. Maybe it was a fluke but it was unreal. It worries me so here is my second question.

Have any of you experienced this large of a gap when flooring the gas? What is the cause?

So now on to the 35. Got in, played with the power seats as well to get the right position and a nice lumbar support (which I like). It was slightly cold and this 35 had the cold weather package so I turned on the heated steering wheel. I can tell you that if only the 28 or 35 had this feature, I would have my car picking finished -- and that shows you how far on the fence I am between the two. Went around the same test drive loop and I can tell you that I really like the 35 engine HP/response more, but honestly who wouldn't want more power and I wonder if that's just the speed greed talking and it should be put away (My wife quickly told the SA I'll be taking the 28 as soon as I accelerated for the freeway She'd like me to have less HP . The car felt good, maybe I had a better seating position or because this was the second test drive through where I had just been. I felt confident in the car, like it was ready for anything I threw at it. Maybe my subconsious is playing at me too knowing it's "The bigger BMW -35"

I tried to repeat the exact same gas pedal tests and there were different results. I did get a few half second pauses for power (acceptable/normal for any car) this time and I also had experiences where it just went, no gear change, just pure power which is obviously the best scenario. I assume this is because the engine is more powerful and there are fewer gears to pick from that if you request all the power it A: is less likely to pause to change gears and B: the engine can pull harder so it might not need to change gears to give you the requested instant acceleration. A couple times when I floored the gas I was expecting the 35 to downshift but it didn't, it just went and that was nice. In short I'd say it drove like most cars with 5-6 gears (duh) but it had the power to move at the same time. I'm also confused because I thought the shifting in the new 8spd trans was so quick it shouldn't be noticeable. I can say there did seem to be a huge difference, half second or more (but maybe the 'testing' I was doing isn't real-world or the car wasn't used to this and was confused) and I thought there shouldn't be that big of a difference between the two transmissions. I'm also refering to the point where you can first feel any acceleration, not the amount of acceleration. Simply comparing transmissions. So here's a third question.

Should the 8 speed transmission always be quicker than the 6 speed? And why could there appear to be such a major difference?


Other thoughts:

I did do a break test (40-0) on the 28 and it stopped more than fast enough IMO, I didn't do the break test on the 35 (wanted to but my wife gets car sick and half way through the test she asked me to drive gently for the rest of it). Since the 35 has bigger brakes I can only imagine it's the same or better, but better is always better when it comes to brakes for me.

I can't remember which car (I think it was the 28 M package actually) but it felt like it swayed/rolled more, not much at all but a few times I thought, "huh", ... strange...

I'm getting xenon but not for the xenon lights themselves, but for the adaptive lighting. This is worth it to me. Xenon you can see a little better but having lights that go where you're going is great. The cornering lights were nice but I'd want them to turn on at higher than 20mph, maybe this can be re-coded? 20MPH is nothing considering where I live there are lots of corners you take at over 20mph.

The rear-dimming mirror annoyed me at first, I had headlights behind me and it seemed to take 20+ seconds for it to remove the glare. The side view dimming mirrors are nice, but not a game changer. I think I'd prefer to be the one that controlled if the dimming mirror is on or off, not a sensor. I wonder how long the mirrors stay dimmed for, on slow winding roads around here it's easy to have headlights behind you come and go every 10-60 seconds and I'd get annoyed if the dimming turned on and off all the time. Anyone know how long it stays dimmed once it gets activated but looses lights behind you? I know it turns off when you go in revese but again I'm not sure how quick.

After all this, here is where I'm at.

I think going with the 28 I'd actually use some of the premium features and enjoy them, primarily the lumbar support but I don't _need_ it if the manual seats aren't horrid. Convience keys could come in handy but not often. If the dimming mirrors worked well those could be nice. I still think leather could be a downside if they aren't ideal for wet regions/snow, kids, and keeping the car 10-15 years.

I do think I'd enjoy the more powerful engine of the 35 though too. I like the performance wheels on the 35 and I actually wonder if I like servo more than just plain hydrolic steering, and bigger brakes could be good. But going with the 35 and also adding the premium package on the 35 wouldn't solve what I really think is making this choice difficult.

The 35 has the power but it comes at lower MPG and I'm not sure if the power warrents probably $4-10k in extra gas expense over the next 10-15 years. It's money, but I could spend that on another things as well. I will admit I am stretching just slightly for the X1. I do okay, but I don't make 6 figures. This might be the only BMW I ever have (or it could be one of many if life goes well) so in case part of my wants to get the 35 instead of the 28 (for the same ((well $400 more)) price) because any '35 is a little more respected than a '28. Or maybe someone just needs to slap me and tell me it doesn't matter. I want a safe car that handles well and is fun, hence a BMW in my opinion since they do make good handling cars with performance in mind. The X1 is almost identical to my current hatch in height, width, length, and capacity which I have liked, but 1000lb's more. It just has the handling, safety and more power that I need and liked during test drives. I've test driven Lexus, Subaru's (Gutless), an EX35, and audi (talk about being disconnected from the road) and none are near what I like about my car and the X1.

I've seen threads where people say they got a 328 and wish they got the 335 for more power and I wonder if that could be me. I also saw threads where people just got more frustrated at the world because they had 300hp and everyone drove poorly or too slow for them to use the power and it just made them more frustrated. Everyone wants more HP right? -- it's addicting. When I first drove the 28 it had more than enough I thought.

But I think I liked how the 35 didn't have to pause as often or much and pick gears too, but I'm not sure if my test drive was a fluke. I'm just can't decide. Estimating shows about $700 more a year on gas which adds up over 10-15 years.

As far as regrets, I think there could be times where if I got the 28 I'd say "I wish I had more power" but I could even do that with the 35 too, an M3 would be fun right? I'm only very minorly worried I could say that phrase and mean it. I think the only con of the 35 is the gas millage (And I hate that knowing future gas prices is impossible), but at times I wonder how different it is since the 28's MPG is really in question right now anyway... 5MPG, 3MPG? I guess there could be times where I'd say, "I wish I had power seats" or the convenience package if I'm carrying kids or groceries to the car but I live without it now.

Since I want to keep the car so long, I really wonder what really is up with the 28's transmission. I'd like to know if it pausing so long to pick a gear (not the hesitation quirk either but the 1.3s-1.7s pause) is a real issue. Test drives are so short and really don't give you a chance to understand the car in real world/daily driving so that's a bit why I'm here rambling and hoping someone else can shed some light based on their experiences. I think if the 28 truely was responsive to flooring the gas and is enough power for real-world driving I'd get that, enjoy the premium features and suck up my HP greed and enjoy the better MPG. If there is enough difference in pedal to the floor response difference between the two I'd probably go for the 35 and suck up having to fill up more often. My wifes Tiguan gets 21MPG, so I'd just be on par with her. I'd probably not get the premium though on the 35 to help offset the lost MPG and I just hope I don't miss the power seats and convience keys.

I live about 15 miles from the suburbs and work from home (but that could change into 40 minute commutes in stop and go traffic at any time). Driving would be 30% 55mph backroads, 30% freeway, and 40% city. I have a heavy foot and like to be the first one across the intersection and find more open spaces on road with no one ahead rather than sitting contently in clumped groups of cars.

I will be happy with either model, but I will also miss either features, MPG or horsepower regardless which one I pick. I come from a 130hp hatchback that's 2800lb's and nimble for sharp cornering and I liked that except when I had 2+ people in the car then it gutlessness shines when I accelerate and that annoys and worries me if I ever got into a dangerous situation.

But first and formost, this car is for safety first, not power. that's why I'm concerned that when I floor it there's power and not a 1.2s+ pause while the 28 transmission picks a gear.

Sorry for the rambling and probably repeating, it's tough to get my thoughts into words so anyone with some thoughts on my experiences can enlighten me. I'm excited about getting the X1 and will put the deposit down within 2 weeks and do a late spring ED pickup.
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      10-24-2012, 12:31 PM   #36
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Based on what you've written it sounds to me like you would be happier with the 35i. From most reports the mileage on the 28i is not as good as the reported numbers. Yes, it is better than the 35i mileage but the gap is not as large as the numbers suggest.

In my mind you buy a BMW for the driving experience. If you cared about things like gadgets you can get those cheaper elsewhere. In your case your enjoyed the driving experience much more with the 35i. That to me would be the deciding factor.
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      10-24-2012, 02:12 PM   #37
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Please note that the 8s will have to shift more often to achieve any speed. While the in gear acceleration times can be favorable and the shift speeds are quicker than the 6s, it is not enough to overcome the additional shifts required. Note that the F30 335i has shown slower 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than LCI N55 E90 335's, with the primary difference being the transmission. 6s manual tests have shown little or no performance difference.

Further, as noted in another thread, real world mileage is not showing the difference btw the 28i and 35i that the EPA would have you believe.
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      10-24-2012, 03:33 PM   #38
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For fun (And this might just be uselss math) I calculated the max mph @ 7k rpm for each gear on the xDrive28i and the xDrive35i for 18" wheels.

Code:
xDrive28i
Gear    1st             2nd             3rd             4th             5th             6th             7th             8th
Ratio:  3.15*4.71       3.15*3.14       3.15*2.11       3.15*1.67       3.15*1.29       3.15*1          3.15*.84        3.15*.67
Output: 14.8365         9.8910          6.6465          5.2605          4.0635          3.15            2.6460          2.1105
7k mph  25.25           37.87           56.36           71.22           92.20           118.93          141.59          177.52

xDrive35i
Ratio   3.64*4.71       3.64*2.34       3.64*1.52       3.64*1.14       3.64*.87        3.64*.69
Output: 17.1444         8.5176          5.5328          4.1496          3.1668          2.5116
7k mph  21.85           43.98           67.71           90.28           118.30          149.17
I can see why the e90 335 could have a faster 0-60 than the f30, once less gear change (Assuming the e90/f30 have same gearing)

I guess the shortened ramble to what I wrote (I can't believe it was that long, sorry) is:

I'm wondering if my experience in test driving the xdrive28 n20/8spd has been experienced by others, or if anyone can explain what might have happened on my drive and that 1.5'ish second transmission response time. Honestely it worried me because when going to pull out onto a busy street or in a moment of need that unexpected 1.5s pause can make a big difference if the transmission can't be relied upon. Test drives are too short and maybe the 35 would do the same thing. I'm wondering what others have experienced.

If I knew my experience wouldn't happen again once I bought the 28, I'd get it and enjoy the lumbar support, and better gas millage. We always want more HP and I can set that aside but lack of power (which the n20 does have) when it's needed, is something that would sway me to the 28 or the 35 if there is true difference.

So if the 8 speed transmission is a bit flaky and always changing gears rather than actually giving you performance, I'd go for the 35. -- On my current 5 speed auto transmission I know how hard I can press the pedal to get the most power from each gear without the the transmission changing gears, and I don't mind "learning more gears". But what I wouldn't want is a transmission that can't decide what gear to be in, pausing for over a second, because there are so many it can choose from, does that make sense?
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