[stefan]

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Actually, you're missing the point. I agree that there's a lot more to a M car than horsepower. I'm just saying that the M sport package x35i already has most of those things. I don't know what your deal is - maybe you're from the UK and haven't seen the American M sport package yet?

I have. Msport != M. Example, on M sport packages, the suspension IS not the same as the M cars. We're talking extensive use of aluminum vs heavier metals in cfa, rta, etc. Not to mention tuning and geometries including camber and end links are also different. M sport is just a tigher suspension.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Yeah, no. Curb weight X5 x50i 5379lbs. Curb weight X5M 5368lbs. So much for your theory.

Don't be insulting, it's not a theory. I said nothing about weight. I said weight saving components. Take a look under the rear bumper of an M3. You'll see CF in place of steel forming the rear bumper support. The roof is CF. The hood is lighweight aluminum. The body panels are lightened, etc. It's not a 3-series lightweight, it's an M3 employing exotic materials (CF and aluminum)

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Really? Because the X5M has a ZF 6 speed auto - and so does the X1 35i M Sport. Fail once again.

Somewhat true; however they are completely differently tuned. The X1 has a pedestrian 6 speed auto with horrendous gear ratios and software that protects the transmission from heat. The X5M on the other hand is specifically tuned, and also has an entirely different control layout.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

X5M and the X1 both have X drive....lol

And finally, how I know you've done 0 research. The X5M and X6M using a modified/enhanced xdrive system featuring torque vectoring. If you don't know what this is, or what it means for track driving, but please look it up. Your X1 will understeer off the racetrack on turn 1, while the X5M and X6M won't.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Link please?

Don't have one. Just go look under an X5 and an X5M. Observe the suspension setups. AFAIK it also has an improved driveshaft. Some other items that will be more difficult to notice will be bushings that are of stiffer material, engine and tranny mounts that are stiffer, etc.

Let's not forget as well, it has an actual M engine (s63tu featuring MANY cylinder and contact point reinforcements) which will run high rev limit and high hp all day without issue.. where as I'd be damned worried about your OTS tuned N55. I don't have a link.. but use some common sense.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

I'll give you this - so far, your main arguing point for an M car is "warranty." Nice.

Can't tell if serious.. but that's a big deal when you want big power. One gives it to you and will fix your problems when something goes wrong. The other will cost you upwards of $25,000 in the event of major engine failure.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

The X1 M Sport already has sport seats with large, fully inflatable side bolsters.

Did not realize this, you may have a point here.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Actually, based on your inaccurate info above, it appears that you've never driven one besides your M3. And you've clearly never driven an M sport SUV. I've driven the e46 and e92 M3's, as well as the 2012 X6M.

I have had every generation of M3 except E30. I've owned pedestrian BMWs including an E36. The most disappointing of the bunch was my 135i, which taught me that non-M cars, particularly the turbo'ed M sport vehicles are NOTHING like their M counterparts.

When the 135i came out in 2008, I was one of the first to get one. There was plenty of talk at that time about putting an M badge on it because "it's pretty much an M car". Switching from a 135i to an E46 M3 reaffirmed my decision to not sheepishly follow the others. It also taught me the value of that badge.

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

And once again, in addition to the above things, the M Sport X1 already has an M suspension, M steering wheel, M wheels, M tires, M bodywork, and M DTC software. I mean, the steering wheel, wheels and tires, side sills, and even the seats can literally bolt right into "real" M models.

Again, M-sport does NOT mean it was taken from an M car. On all fronts there. And really, DSC software? Alright.. let me know how that works out for you at a track. (Your brakes will be fried from the e-diff and you'll have amazing understeer... despite your "M" stability setting)

Originally Posted by paradoxical3

Because the X1 is a lifted 1 series? You're aware that they are based on the same platform, and that you can even interchange suspension and exhaust parts, right? Hell they even have the same engine.

The 135i is nothing like an M car. I've owned one. Let me know how trying to put M exhaust or M suspension on your X1 goes though.


I feel the need to qualify this post. I am very interested in the X1 and as soon as it ships with a modern transmission and N55, I'll be writing my cheque. But you won't see me comparing it to a vehicle built by BMW Motorsport.